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Positive conservative views on "single payer" health care

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
First there's the question of "must use" single payer and "everyone can use" single payer. I'm a supporter of the later. I wish we could have a rational discussion about the best way to get out of the current mess but such is life.

Anyway, I found this conservative view interesting and would like to have more information on cross-subsidies. . https://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2018/07/single-payer-sympathy.html
But a single provider or payer than anyone in trouble can use, supported by taxes, not cross-subsidized by restrictions on your and my health care -- not underpaying in a private system and forcing that system to overcharge others -- while allowing a vibrant completely competitive free market in private health care on top of that, is not such a terrible idea, and follows from my Op-Ed. A single bureaucracy that hands out vouchers, pays full market costs, or pays partially but allows doctors to charge whatever they want on top of that would work. A VA like system of public hospitals and clinics would work too. Like public schools, or public restrooms, you can use them, but you don't have to; you're free to spend your money on better options if you like, and people are free to start businesses to serve you. And no cross-subisides.

Then there's the study that Fox chose to emphasize the cost not the cost savings in their reporting. Whether the assumptions are valid is one thing but giving it weight is that it's a study by a conservative organization with Koch funding: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/07/medicare-for-all-savings-mercatus-center-report

In the report, Charles Blahous attempts to roughly score Bernie Sanders’s most recent Medicare-for-All bill and reaches the somewhat surprising (for Mercatus) conclusion that, if the bill were enacted, the new costs it creates would be more than offset by the new savings it generates through administrative efficiencies and reductions in unit prices.

The report’s methods are pretty straightforward. Blahous starts with current projections about how much the country will spend on health care between 2022 and 2031. From there, he adds the costs associated with higher utilization of medical services and then subtracts the savings from lower administrative costs, lower reimbursements for medical services, and lower drug prices. After this bit of arithmetic, Blahous finds that health expenditures would be lower for every year during the first decade of implementation. The net change across the whole ten-year period is a savings of $303 billion.
 
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PureX

Veteran Member
The reason that the people of the U.S. pay nearly twice as much for their health care as people in all other modern nations is very simple: we are being price-gouged for nearly every product and service being rendered. And the reason that we're being price-gouges so ruthlessly is that health care is not a free market. No one has the option of refusing to buy the products and services being sold, as we would very likely suffer and even DIE if we were to refuse. And this has created a massive monopoly with the most effective enforcement mechanism possible.

The other modern nations of the world have faced this simple fact of reality: that health care cannot be treated like a free market. And they've broken the strangle-hold that the health care industry had on their population by imposing socialist principals to their health care system. But we in the U. S. have been unable to follow their lead because our government and media is now so completely controlled by the people profiting from the health care monopoly and it's price-gouging that we can't even have a reasonable, knowledgeable, discussion of the subject without generating a whole ****-storm of lies and negative propaganda intent on stirring up our most base and ugly prejudices and turning us all against each other.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
One perspective on high health care prices (a short read, listing 6 items)....
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...0615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp

"when Congress created Medicare Part D, it specifically denied Medicare the right to use its power to negotiate drug prices."

o_O

You have to simply pay whatever the drug companies ask? Is there any reason for this other than blatant corruption?


Always worth reminding that, per capita, the US spends more public money on healthcare to not have universal care than most European countries do to provide universal care.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
The reason that the people of the U.S. pay nearly twice as much for their health care as people in all other modern nations is very simple: we are being price-gouged for nearly every product and service being rendered. And the reason that we're being price-gouges so ruthlessly is that health care is not a free market. No one has the option of refusing to buy the products and services being sold, as we would very likely suffer and even DIE if we were to refuse. And this has created a massive monopoly with the most effective enforcement mechanism possible.

I must confess I have never thought about it like that, but that certainly sounds like truth.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
A potential wrinkle....
Suppose we have single payer, & every worker (doc, nurse, etc) is a government employee.
Being personally & institutionally shielded from lawsuits, we'd likely see then end of defensive
medicine & malpractice suits. But I wouldn't bet that workers would then become more
caring & competent (government employees, ya know). What happens to patients who
endure medical misadventures?
And what of all the lawyers thrown out of work? OK....I can live with that one.
 
OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg.png
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
One example: the medical insurance industry.
The insurance industry actually does a lot of quality control work.
If they weren't around, the function would still be necessary.
As for the administrative work they do, that should be greatly
lessened. But looking at how the fed handles things, I don't
know that we can count on this. (Dealing with Obamacare
& Medicare has been a sequence of jumping thru hoops to
correct their many durable errors.)
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
One perspective on high health care prices (a short read, listing 6 items)....
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...0615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp

I think part 6 says a lot more than other parts:
“There is no such thing as a legitimate price for anything in healthcare,” says George Halvorson, the former chairman of health maintenance organization Kaiser Permanente. “Prices are made up depending on who the payer is.”

Providers who can demand the highest prices are the ones that create a brand everyone wants.

US has been campaigning to raise medical drug prices in other countries and limit availability of generics, so you could say that although you have high healthcare costs, they are also driving the same up in other countries and helping alternative medicine keep it's share.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
US citizens pay more in medically directed income taxes than Britain, for example, but on top of that, we also pay insurance premiums, deductables, copays, and various other uncovered charges out-of-pocket. In the US one can actually be bankrupted by medical charges.

In Britain, healthcare is socialized, like the US' VA system. Costs comes out of your taxes. If you're sick, you go to a clinic or hospital and you'll get all the health care you need and never see a bill -- (or at least that was the case a few years ago, before they started cutting corners). No insurance costs, no copays or deductibles, no treatment limits, all for less than Americans pay in federal healthcare taxes.
Better outcomes, too.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
It could have easily expanded Administrative costs into a sub point about the billing and insurance itself. It isn't user friendly, it complicates things, and yet it's of the utmost importance to make sure money gets moved around to where it's supposed to go.
When Taiwan set up their universal single payer health care system, they issued every citizen a medical smart-card. It not only contains the individual's essential medical history, so that in an emergency, or if one is traveling, the information is immediately available to unfamiliar doctors, it also keeps track of all services provided and handles all the billing electronically. This cut the cost of administration massively, and even provided a means of flagging people who might be over-using or abusing the health care system.
 
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