Power of Lord Shiva

[TravisJC]

Greetings fellow Hindu DIR,

As someone who believes Lord Shiva to be the supreme being I was pondering on the idea of monotheism vs polytheism. (I hope I posted in the right section.) If Lord Shiva is the supreme and all things created were created from Him then where do other god/goddesses fall? If Parvati, Ganesha, Durga, Vishnu, etc were manifestations of Him, then are their 'doings' simply another form of His power? I pray to Ganesha for aid in life and pray to Mother Parvati as a caring mother. My post isn't more about polytheism or monotheism but rather was pondering on how rather to describe there roles within my life. If you can provide scripture, please do! Feel free to make comments and/or questions as I am eager to learn.

Thank you.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yeah, the Shaivas will believe that. Mother Parvati, Lord Ganesha, Lord Kartikeya/Murugan, as well as their companions (Nandi, Simha, Peacock, Mushaka and the Cobras are family). Other Gods are forms of Shiva and their emanations. So, if one concentrates on Shiva, it is Monism or Monotheism, otherwise it is Polytheism. Hinduism has no problem with any of these views.

 

[Vinayaka]

Greetings fellow Hindu DIR,

As someone who believes Lord Shiva to be the supreme being I was pondering on the idea of monotheism vs polytheism. (I hope I posted in the right section.) If Lord Shiva is the supreme and all things created were created from Him then where do other god/goddesses fall? If Parvati, Ganesha, Durga, Vishnu, etc were manifestations of Him, then are their 'doings' simply another form of His power? I pray to Ganesha for aid in life and pray to Mother Parvati as a caring mother. My post isn't more about polytheism or monotheism but rather was pondering on how rather to describe there roles within my life. If you can provide scripture, please do! Feel free to make comments and/or questions as I am eager to learn.

Thank you.

In my sampradaya it's explained as Shiva emanating other gods for particular purposes. At the outer level they seem distinct, and unless we're self-realised that's how we see it. This is especially true for Ganesha and Murugan. For Shakti it's different as Shakti is Siva manifested. Siva as is is unmanifest, yet causal.

At the deepest level there is only Siva.

So for worldly stuff like finances and health, we go to the elephant headed one, the remover of obstacles. (seva, chariya) But then at some point when we get more religious and want to go inward, we turn to Muruga, the god of yoga. More aloof is He.

In philosophical terms, this is usually termed henotheism.

 

[stvdv]

If Lord Shiva is the supreme and all things created were created from Him then where do other god/goddesses fall?

Hence it is called "belief", so it is no fact
For the ones believing Shiva is the highest, maybe some see the others as lower
For the ones believing Krishna is the highest, maybe some see the others as lower

I will never debate that Shiva is "not the highest" ... I challenged Him once, and He did appear to me in His scary form ... still recovering from that

When coming to India first time, I saw foto of Shirdi Baba ... I loved him straight away. My Master says that Shirdi is "Shiva incarnation". And my Master also tells us, that we better not fall in the trap to believe that our chosen "God" form is higher than the chosen "God" form of others. It's not a healthy game of the mind. There is 1 "God", and "He" is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. Artists express "God" in different forms. But that is not the truth.

Of course with His incredible Maya, He always tricks us, when we least expect it, but I believe "There is 1 God", so it's human giving different names, seeing different forms. That is just in the mind of the beholder. And I like it, when it is said "God is beyond words"; solving your question straight away

 

[TravisJC]

In my sampradaya it's explained as Shiva emanating other gods for particular purposes. At the outer level they seem distinct, and unless we're self-realised that's how we see it. This is especially true for Ganesha and Murugan. For Shakti it's different as Shakti is Siva manifested. Siva as is is unmanifest, yet causal.

This I would agree with, like you had stated, on the surface level they seem distinct with different names, features, and stories, yet they are just different beings in which are manifestations of Him, Lord Shiva.

we better not fall in the trap to believe that our chosen "God" form is higher than the chosen "God" form of others. It's not a healthy game of the mind. There is 1 "God", and "He" is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient. Artists express "God" in different forms. But that is not the truth.

Although I agree we should not argue amongst our fellow Hindus which god/goddess is higher than one or the other, I do hold the belief that Lord Shiva is the supreme. I know this is simply my belief and others may not agree, which is perfectly okay to me. Side note, but I hold a special place in my heart for Sai Baba. He was truly a remarkable man and I have found that my love for him is great.

And I like it, when it is said "God is beyond words"; solving your question straight away

God is beyond words and thus we will forever to try understand.

 

[Vinayaka]

Although I agree we should not argue amongst our fellow Hindus which god/goddess is higher than one or the other, I do hold the belief that Lord Shiva is the supreme. I know this is simply my belief and others may not agree, which is perfectly okay to me. Side note, but I hold a special place in my heart for Sai Baba. He was truly a remarkable man and I have found that my love for him is great.

God is beyond words and thus we will forever to try understand.

There is never any need to argue. If somebody else from a different sampradaya goes on about it ... (their version is better than yours) you can just nod in agreement, and then walk away. In one ear and out the other. The Supreme is the Supreme regardless of its name. That would be the Hindu way.

 

[TravisJC]

There is never any need to argue. If somebody else from a different sampradaya goes on about it ... (their version is better than yours) you can just nod in agreement, and then walk away. In one ear and out the other. The Supreme is the Supreme regardless of its name. That would be the Hindu way.

Said like a true wiseman, thank you Vinayaka.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hence it is called "belief", so it is no fact. .. My Master says that Shirdi is "Shiva incarnation".

For a strict Advaitist - Who is not? Whether human, animal, vegetation or something non-living? The incarnation theme is an illusion, a made-up story. A coterie of people created an incarnation and milked it till the government had to take it over. But the milking still goes on. What all else you believe. Creation, soul, birth, death, heaven, hell, judgment, deliverance? Why not abandon the belief part when you know that it is not truth?
@TravisJC , there has been no dearth of remarkable men and women in India. Know about Kabir? He never claimed to be an incarnation. More remarkable then remarkable is. Don't know much about the remarkable men and women from South India.

 

[TravisJC]

there has been no dearth of remarkable men and women in India. Know about Kabir?

I have heard of Kabir, but my knowledge is limited. I know him because of his inclusion in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

 

[atanu]

Greetings fellow Hindu DIR,

As someone who believes Lord Shiva to be the supreme being I was pondering on the idea of monotheism vs polytheism. (I hope I posted in the right section.) If Lord Shiva is the supreme and all things created were created from Him then where do other god/goddesses fall? If Parvati, Ganesha, Durga, Vishnu, etc were manifestations of Him, then are their 'doings' simply another form of His power? I pray to Ganesha for aid in life and pray to Mother Parvati as a caring mother. My post isn't more about polytheism or monotheism but rather was pondering on how rather to describe there roles within my life. If you can provide scripture, please do! Feel free to make comments and/or questions as I am eager to learn.

Thank you.

The Rudram of Yajurveda says that all divine forms: male and female, are of Rudra, which is the Seer and the source of Vak. Cipivista-Vishnu, Indra, Mitra-Varuna, the fierce Devi-s, Ganapati all is Rudra.

But the name is not really important if the reality of the Seer is not comprehended and realised. The Seer is the Turiya, the atman that is the essence and the Seer of the three states of existence: waking, dreaming, and sleeping. The Turiya is the ‘non dual shivo atman’ and this atman is brahman. Ayam atman brahman.

 

[stvdv]

For a strict Advaitist - Who is not? Whether human, animal, vegetation or something non-living? The incarnation theme is an illusion, a made-up story.

Path of Jnana also has it's pitfalls. Mentally you can believe "I am God", but being Self Realized is a whole different story. Until I am Self Realized, for me it is useful to see my Master as God, and slowly work my way towards "realizing this", instead of "thinking it". For others Jnana is the way.

Sai Baba describes it nicely:
a) Path of Jnana: Is like the path of the monkey. The monkey baby has to hold on to the mother, so baby monkey has to do lots of effort
b) Path of Bhakti: Is like the path of the kitten. The mother cat carries the kitten around, taking perfect care, the kitten fully surrenders to the mother

Both are good, both are valid, according to Sai Baba. 1 is not better than the other. All can just choose what suits them best

 

[Jainarayan]

If Parvati, Ganesha, Durga, Vishnu, etc were manifestations of Him, then are their 'doings' simply another form of His power? I pray to Ganesha for aid in life and pray to Mother Parvati as a caring mother.

I see it the same way but from the flip side of the coin. Replace Shiva with Vishnu and we're talking about the same thing. Imo Shiva and Vishnu are flip sides of the same coin, they are one and the same. In the Bhagavad Gita Krishna gives a litany of all the gods, demi-gods, and beings he is. He shows Arjuna his divine form, his viśvarūpa which is everything and everyone at once.

The Skanda Purana and Yajur Veda say:

śivāya viṣnuḥ rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya viṣnave
śivasya hṛdayam viṣṇur viṣṇos ca hṛdayam śivaḥ

Vishnu's appearance is Shiva; Shiva's appearance is Vishnu
Vishnu is the heart of Shiva; Shiva is the heart of Vishnu

I guess I'm a soft polytheist. It's taken me a long time to get away from the idea of hard polytheism, and the idea of jealousy among them. Moreover, I don't subscribe to the sectarian silliness of "X is greater than Y". Not when they're all One... "ekam sat and all that".

 

[stvdv]

See him like a guru, instructor, with whom you can even differ. Why make him into a God which he is not (Is there a God?)? What any Baba (or his promoters) can give you are platitudes. How do they help you?

Sai promotion is something like that of Bahais. Sai is Vishnu, Sai is Shiva, Sai is Rama, Sai is Krishna. They don't deny any of these Gods, but in the end say that Sai is all. Sai is a newly manufactured God.

Oh, you got it all wrong, how I stand in this. This little anecdote will clarify it:
Once Sai Baba was with a bunch of students. One student was sitting alone at a table, and Sai Baba called him. But the student did not respond. So, Sai Baba turned to the other students, saying "That is a bad student, don't you think?". All nodded, and agreed with Baba "it's a very bad student, not listening to swami". So, Swami called the student again. No reaction. After the third time, Sai Baba said "let's go to him, and ask, why he did not come".

When asking the student, the student replied "Swami inside told me not to respond"
Aha, Sai Baba said, looking at the other student, you see, he understands, always listen to God inside. Even if the God outside is telling you differently. Even if I tell you differently. Listen to your own conscience.

What any Baba (or his promoters) can give you are platitudes. How do they help you?

You know nothing about my relationship with Sai Baba, and how much He has done for me. That is a fact, yours is just wrong speculation.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Rudram of Yajurveda says that all divine forms: male and female, are of Rudra, which is the Seer and the source of Vak. Cipivista-Vishnu, Indra, Mitra-Varuna, the fierce Devi-s, Ganapati all is Rudra.

But the name is not really important if the reality of the Seer is not comprehended and realised. The Seer is the Turiya, the atman that is the essence and the Seer of the three states of existence: waking, dreaming, and sleeping. The Turiya is the ‘non dual shivo atman’ and this atman is brahman. Ayam atman brahman.

Best rudram rendition I've found:

 

[Aupmanyav]

When asking the student, the student replied "Swami inside told me not to respond"
Aha, Sai Baba said, looking at the other student, you see, he understands, always listen to God inside. Even if the God outside is telling you differently. Even if I tell you differently. Listen to your own conscience.

The 'Swami inside' is the brain, and not any God. Religious books are full of fables. Actually, they should be classed as story books. So, here, this is a story created by promoters of the Baba. Internet is full of such stories. Of course, good people should listen to their conscience, evil people may not have a conscience or may not listen to it; but it is hardly God's voice.

 

[ajay0]

Greetings fellow Hindu DIR,

As someone who believes Lord Shiva to be the supreme being I was pondering on the idea of monotheism vs polytheism. (I hope I posted in the right section.) If Lord Shiva is the supreme and all things created were created from Him then where do other god/goddesses fall? If Parvati, Ganesha, Durga, Vishnu, etc were manifestations of Him, then are their 'doings' simply another form of His power? I pray to Ganesha for aid in life and pray to Mother Parvati as a caring mother. My post isn't more about polytheism or monotheism but rather was pondering on how rather to describe there roles within my life. If you can provide scripture, please do! Feel free to make comments and/or questions as I am eager to learn.

Thank you.

In ancient times in India, only the Shivalingam was worshipped. The Avatars Rama, Krishna, Parashurama worshipped theShivalingam.

Later on , as Buddhism and Jainism came up in India with their temples and beautiful anthromorphic idols of Buddha and Mahavira, Hindus started imitating the same and created idols out of the Puranic figures like Parvati, Ganesham, Durga, Vishnu etc. They have certain positive energies connected with them, but still are inferior to the Shivalingam.

In most temples, there is a tradition of worshipping the non-anthropomorphic Shivalingam first and then the anthropomorphic idols later on.


The Prajapita Brahmakumaris consider the Shivalingam to represent God as an incorporeal point of light. An another name for the Shivalingam is Jyotirlingam, with 'Jyoti' meaning light.

The other Dharmic sect of Sikhism also considers Shiva to be an another name of the Supreme God Waheguru, and synonymous with light.

 

[TravisJC]

In most temples, there is a tradition of worshipping the non-anthropomorphic Shivalingam first and then the anthropomorphic idols later on.

I do this as well. I do Shivalingam abhishekam everyday! While I do have a murti a Lord Shiva, I usually perform abhishekam to the anthropomorphic murti here and there as I please. I've realized with time that I do have a stronger connection with lingam but it is nice to have a face to Lord Shiva.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris consider the Shivalingam to represent God as an incorporeal point of light. An another name for the Shivalingam is Jyotirlingam, with 'Jyoti' meaning light.

When Lord Shiva created the universe Brahma and Vishnu saw what was the infinite pillar of fire, would this be the same thing as Jyotirlingam?

 

[TravisJC]

Best rudram rendition I've found:

One day I will learn full Sri Rudram. What is the opening portion he is reciting before he starts Rudram?

 

[ajay0]

When Lord Shiva created the universe Brahma and Vishnu saw what was the infinite pillar of fire, would this be the same thing as Jyotirlingam?

Yeah, these are just metaphors and allegories to point the fact of the Shivalingam being associated with light.

As per the Brahmakumaris, the right form of worship of Shivalingam is to perceive it as a point of light, and to meditate on it with love.

A female enlightened master of Kerala named Shivayogini Matha (1923-1981) also similarly worshiped the Shivalingam during her days of sadhana, perceiving it as a flame of lamp consecrated in her heart (in her own words).


Hrtpadma karnika madhye, sthira dipa nibhakrtim I
angustha matram, acalam, dhyayed om karam Tsvaram II

One should contemplate on "om" as Isvara in the heart
resembling an unflickering flame.
— Dhyana Bindu Upanisad, XIX

 

[TravisJC]

Yeah, these are just metaphors and allegories to point the fact of the Shivalingam being associated with light.

I still have a long way to go in terms of meditation, as it is hard for me to visualize Lord Shiv without thinking of his anthropomorphic body. I don't know the specific school of thoughts on how one must meditate but I try to think of lingam.