Praising Putin.

[Triumph]

Nope, this is right wing disinformation straight from Tucker Carlson. He totally misquoted the person giving testimony to congress.

The reality is that there were bolas in the former Soviet Union that had many dangerous substances and these had to be managed and disposed on in very specific ways. Ukraine even got rid of their nuclear weapons, so the conspiracy theory about biolabs doesn't hold any water. Chemical weapons are banned by international agreement and NATO.


Which is why trump was voted out. Now Putin doesn't have an ally in the West.


False, more Russian disinformation. Even if all this was true the civilized thing to do is resolve matters diplomatically. As it was the rhetoric coming from Putin was that NATO was a threat to Russia. This is odd given the aim of NATO and the EU was to maintain peace and stability so all nations can thrive without dumping money into military defense. Now Putin has disrupted 7 decades of peace. There is no excuse for this.


It's as if Canada would negotiate giving up their dully elected officials so US puppets would take over their governments. That won't happen. What Putin was demanding was not legal and not anything that could be negotiated. This is why Putin's solution was to destroy Ukraine, and murder many Ukrainian citizens.




Putin and many of his generals are likely facing war crimes.


This illustrates how religion in its more extreme forms is a threat to humanity.

The aggressive Bear Putin is part of the tribulation.
Wiki states, "Russia's vast geography is an important determinant of its economic activity, with some sources estimating that the nation contains over 30% of the world's natural resources. Russia has been widely described as an energy superpower; as it has the world's largest natural gas reserves, the second-largest coal reserves, the eighth-largest oil reserves, and the largest oil shale reserves in Europe. It is the world's leading natural gas exporter, the second-largest natural gas producer, and the second-largest oil exporter, and producer."

What Russia does not want is Greece and Israel or even Turkey or Lebanon selling gas and oil to Europe attained by control of the Leviathian gas field.

Regardless of the amount of product a nation has, there must be people to buy the product. Ukraine has a coastline on the black sea and additional seaports are desired by Russia for exports. Istanbul is also a major interest as it is the passage to the Mediterranean.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I think of a "good war" like a "good plague." You really don't want it to be "well run."

Of course you do. A war that is efficient kills the least amount to reach it's objective. This war looks like no one is using strategy at all.

 

[John D. Brey]

I am confused about Mr. Brey's motives, as well. He seems to be against Gays, and might be willing to support Putin because Putin is against Gays too. But maybe this is not correct?

Would I have placed a rainbow on your message if I was against gays?



John

 

[John D. Brey]

I think of a "good war" like a "good plague." You really don't want it to be "well run."

Is that the advice you'd have given Churchill? Don't run your war well. Maybe Hitler will feel sorry for our sorry army and how badly it's run and sue for peace.



John

 

[F1fan]

The fact of FOX news joining the bandwagon should allow you to appreciate the importance of this thread.

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to achieve with this obscene thread. It certainly has no importance.

It's the final frontier of the sane.
John

If only you would join us.

 

[Triumph]

That's your summary not mine.

The point of the thread-seeder is that war is not evil. And that only the leader of a nation can determine when war is justified for his nation. The responsibilities of those who he wars with, are to win the war, not to cry foul, as though he is evil for doing what is righteous in the eyes of God: defending one's nations from enemies foreign or domestic.

What I hear from the Western media is a cacophony of cries about how Putin is evil for conducting war. They don't mention that when Gorbachev negotiated the peaceful dismantling of the USSR, one of the promises the West gave him was that Ukraine would not be allowed to become a member of a Western alliance aligned against mother Russia.

Putin is correct to be conducting the war he's conducting. And the West is engaged in a war of words against him that are, their words, "evil," in every sense of that word.



John

Focus is on Ukraine but what about Putin's stance on Syria and Iran? Putin supports Iran and Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi was one of the first world leaders to pick up the phone and call Putin to pledge allegiance to Russia as soon as the news of the war in the Ukraine was announced.
"The dominant talking point in Iran is how the United States has functioned as an agent provocateur that forced Ukraine into the current maelstrom by inciting Russia. Ignoring how ruinous the war has proved to be so far, official media in Iran have unanimously pinned the blame entirely on the “NATO provocations” without bothering to critically debate Russia’s violation of international law and the vehemence of its military campaign begetting massive loss of life and an unprecedented exodus in Eastern Europe."
"Russia is helping Iran in the offensive cyber field, not to mention enabling it.
These days there are about twenty million Muslims in Russia, a figure that has doubled within the span of three decades. Thus, Russia is concerned that the West—or even Iran—might have the power to provoke political and social unrest amid different groups of that Muslim population."
Patrushev, the Secretary of the Russian Security Council, declared that Russia would continue to accommodate Iran’s interests in the Middle East because it remains “the ally and partner” of choice in Syria.

 

[F1fan]

The aggressive Bear Putin is part of the tribulation.

I'm not convinced.

Wiki states, "Russia's vast geography is an important determinant of its economic activity, with some sources estimating that the nation contains over 30% of the world's natural resources. Russia has been widely described as an energy superpower; as it has the world's largest natural gas reserves, the second-largest coal reserves, the eighth-largest oil reserves, and the largest oil shale reserves in Europe. It is the world's leading natural gas exporter, the second-largest natural gas producer, and the second-largest oil exporter, and producer."

What Russia does not want is Greece and Israel or even Turkey or Lebanon selling gas and oil to Europe attained by control of the Leviathian gas field.

Or Putin is aging and wants to act to reunite the old Soviet nation that was part of his reality growing up and as a member of the KGB, and wants a legacy. Or greed. Or who knows, the guy could be mentally compromised. He's certainly not rational.

Regardless of the amount of product a nation has, there must be people to buy the product. Ukraine has a coastline on the black sea and additional seaports are desired by Russia for exports. Istanbul is also a major interest as it is the passage to the Mediterranean.

He, his fellow corrupt profiteers, his nation, and Europe could all be enjoying life right now had he not invaded. He, his corrupt profiteers and the Russian people, will all suffer along with the Ukrainian people for nothing. Nothing good will come of this attack.

 

[F1fan]

George Washington and the Continental Congress were the instigators of the War of Independence.

To resolve a political issue of the colonies being exploited for resources and not being allowed self-rule.

While I'm aware that BLM and MSNBC consider George Washington, Hitler, and Putin, all evil white men,

To quote Steinman and Meat Loaf, two out of three aint bad. But your bias and prejudice are showing.

 

[Triumph]

I'm not convinced.


Or Putin is aging and wants to act to reunite the old Soviet nation that was part of his reality growing up and as a member of the KGB, and wants a legacy. Or greed. Or who knows, the guy could be mentally compromised. He's certainly not rational.


He, his fellow corrupt profiteers, his nation, and Europe could all be enjoying life right now had he not invaded. He, his corrupt profiteers and the Russian people, will all suffer along with the Ukrainian people for nothing. Nothing good will come of this attack.

Russia already has been involved in conflict, war in Syria and sides with Iran.
The Bible states a sign of being near the end of days is Damascus will be in rubble and after10 years of civil war it is. In 2016 more than 80% of Russia's export of crude oil and condensate exports was seaborne. That is why Russia wants to maintain the use of Syria's seaport and the reason Russia supports Syria.
The Muslim dream of a worldwide caliphate when they control all governments and economics does not include a Christian Russia maintaining the right to rule themselves. Russia realizes that.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

I am confused about Mr. Brey's motives, as well. He seems to be against Gays, and might be willing to support Putin because Putin is against Gays too. But maybe this is not correct?

If I understand him correctly, his point is not so much about political views but more on how one deals with differences of opinion.
Differences of opinion inevitably results in division, and when people try to judge it, you get a spectrum of duality.
Still, he thinks diversity and differences of opinion are a good thing, even though the side-effect is division, in which some of such divisions can be perceived as so great and harmful, that they can only be resolved through fighting when the two parties feel the other party doesn't care about their interests when the two are trying to talk and compromise.
Western culture tends to promote an attitude as though war is something that shouldn't exist, which in his view is dangerously ignorant.

This is what I think he's trying to say.

 

[Triumph]

I'm not convinced.


Or Putin is aging and wants to act to reunite the old Soviet nation that was part of his reality growing up and as a member of the KGB, and wants a legacy. Or greed. Or who knows, the guy could be mentally compromised. He's certainly not rational.


He, his fellow corrupt profiteers, his nation, and Europe could all be enjoying life right now had he not invaded. He, his corrupt profiteers and the Russian people, will all suffer along with the Ukrainian people for nothing. Nothing good will come of this attack.

Righteousness is not determined by what nation has the strongest military. Syria has suffered for years and the reason for the start of conflict in Syria has become obscured. Assad is vilified by many and for different reasons. Syria is a Muslim nation and Assad is a Muslim but his religious sect is a minor one while the majority of Muslims he rules over are Sunni, a major sect. Syria is approximately three quarters Sunni, but its government is predominantly Alawite, a Shia sect that makes up less than 15% of the population. The radical members of Sunnis did not want to be ruled by Assad, an Alawite. Assad is a moderate that allowed Christians to safely live in Syria for years.
Christians started to be tortured and killed by radical Sunnis and Assad prosecuted the murderers with the death penalty. That inflamed the radicals that felt Allah wanted the death of Christians so they wanted to oust Assad threatening to kill him. Thus civil war began. Iran supports Assad because Iran is Shia. Russia supports Assad because Christian Russia needs their seaport.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Righteousness is not determined by what nation has the strongest military. Syria has suffered for years and the reason for the start of conflict in Syria has become obscured. Assad is vilified by many and for different reasons. Syria is a Muslim nation and Assad is a Muslim but his religious sect is a minor one while the majority of Muslims he rules over are Sunni, a major sect. Syria is approximately three quarters Sunni, but its government is predominantly Alawite, a Shia sect that makes up less than 15% of the population. The radical members of Sunnis did not want to be ruled by Assad, an Alawite. Assad is a moderate that allowed Christians to safely live in Syria for years.
Christians started to be tortured and killed by radical Sunnis and Assad prosecuted the murderers with the death penalty. That inflamed the radicals that felt Allah wanted the death of Christians so they wanted to oust Assad threatening to kill him. Thus civil war began. Iran supports Assad because Iran is Shia. Russia supports Assad because Christian Russia needs their seaport.

It's not about enmity between Christians and Muslims.
It started due to poverty and high unemployment, particularly amongst the young.

A 5 year drought [ thought to be connected with global warming ] and the weakening of the dollar and global financial system [ 2008 recession ] were all factors that caused mass protests in many Arab countries.
..and then there was the invasion of Iraq, further destabilising the situation.
Some political leaders don't really care what their citizens think. They wish to keep "their lot" in power .. by hook or by crook.
.. no good ..

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Hey John - let me just say that I took one more look at this thread, and I find the fact that you have neglected to respond to any of my most recent replies (and yet have responded to others replies more recently than I made mine) very heartening. It is a good sign. Ask me why if you are not sure what I mean. Otherwise, take care buddy.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Putin has been treated much better as an adult. President W. Bush remarked that he trusted Putin because he had blue eyes. But are beautiful blue eyes really an indicator that someone is a man of peace? Wasn't the Nazi ideal blue eyes and blond hair (Hitler's hair was black)?

Neither Bush nor Trump assessed the guy correctly.

Facing military threats and terrorism, Putin felt that capturing the Ukraine, to reform the Soviet Union, was acceptable.

Shame that Putin saw the breakup of the Soviet Union as the greatest humiliation in his life, and perhaps the worst ever for Russia, but where he is inflicting exactly the same on Russia now by his bad decisions. And if Ukrainians ever wanted to be part of Russia (disputable), they surely don't now or for many generations. Is this a sane man making sane decisions - or someone with his agenda falling apart and lashing out in frustration perhaps?

If Putin had any sense he would try to make Russia more attractive as a nation so as for the satellite countries to actually WANT to join - but of course he does the opposite and drives then all away, and blames the West for enticing them or whatever other excuse he makes up.

So he has finally ended up making very poor decisions, and which has probably been lying in wait along his trajectory ever since he embarked on his personal journey into dictatorship. Shame the tide of history is against him.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Is that the advice you'd have given Churchill? Don't run your war well. Maybe Hitler will feel sorry for our sorry army and how badly it's run and sue for peace.



John

Churchill was a successful war leader in part because he was kept well away from running the British war effort. Unlike Hitler and Stalin, who frequently intervened to the consternation of their generals and the detriment of their respective armies, Churchill was mostly kept at arms length from strategic military decisions. He was an advocate for the joint allied landing at Anzio, though, and look how that went…

Roosevelt appears to have had the good sense to adopt a hands off approach at all times, and leave the conduct of the war up to his commanders, many of who were dangerous egomaniacs but capable in their fields.

 

[F1fan]

Righteousness is not determined by what nation has the strongest military. Syria has suffered for years and the reason for the start of conflict in Syria has become obscured. Assad is vilified by many and for different reasons. Syria is a Muslim nation and Assad is a Muslim but his religious sect is a minor one while the majority of Muslims he rules over are Sunni, a major sect. Syria is approximately three quarters Sunni, but its government is predominantly Alawite, a Shia sect that makes up less than 15% of the population. The radical members of Sunnis did not want to be ruled by Assad, an Alawite. Assad is a moderate that allowed Christians to safely live in Syria for years.

You sound attracted to authoritarian leaders who use excessive force against people, and you don't care about these immoral acts. Is that fair to say?

Christians started to be tortured and killed by radical Sunnis and Assad prosecuted the murderers with the death penalty. That inflamed the radicals that felt Allah wanted the death of Christians so they wanted to oust Assad threatening to kill him. Thus civil war began. Iran supports Assad because Iran is Shia. Russia supports Assad because Christian Russia needs their seaport.

Well it sounds as if religion is only making divisions worse in the world. And anyone tortured by authoritarian leaders is immoral and wrong from a humanist way of thinking.

 

[F1fan]

Churchill was a successful war leader in part because he was kept well away from running the British war effort. Unlike Hitler and Stalin, who frequently intervened to the consternation of their generals and the detriment of their respective armies, Churchill was mostly kept at arms length from strategic military decisions. He was an advocate for the joint allied landing at Anzio, though, and look how that went…

Churchill should have learned his lesson at Gallipoli.

 

[Triumph]

It's not about enmity between Christians and Muslims.
It started due to poverty and high unemployment, particularly amongst the young.

A 5 year drought [ thought to be connected with global warming ] and the weakening of the dollar and global financial system [ 2008 recession ] were all factors that caused mass protests in many Arab countries.
..and then there was the invasion of Iraq, further destabilising the situation.
Some political leaders don't really care what their citizens think. They wish to keep "their lot" in power .. by hook or by crook.
.. no good ..

Some Muslims want to avoid the fact that Muslims kill Muslims and other religious groups over differences in their religious belief.
I have read that there are 73 different sects of Islam and they disagree with how the words of Allah are to be interpreted. They consider each other infidels
yet worship the same God?
You think poverty was a factor in the start of the Syrian conflict but look at the World Vision, a UN report, by 2021 the economic toll of the war was $1.2 trillion. The costs incurred are largely due to the destruction of infrastructure and massive displacement caused by a decade of war. Life in Syria, in Damascus, was better for all the Muslim people before the Arab Spring.
Poverty is not killing Christians, even though they are among the poorest people in the world, Muslims of various sects are killing Christians
Christians were living peacefully with Muslims in Syria without aggression towards Islam.
2011, Christians in Syria= 1.25 Million;
2016, Christians in Syria Less Than 500,000
“Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world”

"Harassment of Christians “was the highest in the Middle East and North Africa (90% of countries),” reported ADF International.
In Syria and Iraq, the persecution of Christians is carried out largely by radical Muslims, such as the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra.
In the Iraqi attack of 2010, al-Qaeda linked jihadis stormed a Christian church during service killing 60 Christian worshippers.
In Syria, government forces have been fighting against revolutionaries and the Islamic State since March 2011, an ongoing battle sparked by the Arab Spring.

In 2015, Syria’s population was approximately 20 million and “92.8% of the population was Muslim, 5.2% Christian and 2% other.”
“It is estimated that in 2015 alone, over 700,000 Christians in Syria sought refuge” in other countries."
" In areas seized by the jihadist group Islamic State (IS), Christians have been ordered to convert to Islam, pay jizya (a religious levy), or face death. In the Syrian province of Hassakeh in February 2015, hundreds of Christians are feared to have been kidnapped by the militants."

“In countries such as Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia the situation of Christians and other minorities had reached an alarming stage by 2019. In Saudi Arabia there are strict limitations on all forms of expression of Christianity including public acts of worship. There have been regular crackdowns on private Christian services. The Arab-Israeli conflict has caused the majority of Palestinian Christians to leave their homeland. The population of Palestinian Christians has dropped from 15% to 2%.”
“The rise of hate speech against Christians in state media and by religious leaders, especially in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, has compromised the safety of Christians and created social intolerance.”

.

 

[Triumph]

You sound attracted to authoritarian leaders who use excessive force against people, and you don't care about these immoral acts. Is that fair to say?


Well it sounds as if religion is only making divisions worse in the world. And anyone tortured by authoritarian leaders is immoral and wrong from a humanist way of thinking.

Not fair at all, I am a pacifist wanting no one to be denied their God given right to life, I AM.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Some Muslims want to avoid the fact that Muslims kill Muslims and other religious groups over differences in their religious belief.
I have read that there are 73 different sects of Islam and they disagree with how the words of Allah are to be interpreted. They consider each other infidels
yet worship the same God?

There are many different sects of Abrahamic religion.
satan causes people to hate each other .. not G-d.

War breeds hate .. it is not easy to forgive people due to atrocities of war.

People should be free to follow the religion of their choice .. unless it oppresses others.
The finger of blame does not prevent wars .. it encourages them.