Praising Putin.

[Ashoka]

Is that what you've heard from the Western media, or have you spoken with him personally and had him relate that to you?



John

Are you implying you've spoken to Putin?

 

[F1fan]

Is that what you've heard from the Western media, or have you spoken with him personally and had him relate that to you?

As we can see through history Putin is corrupt and a liar, so talking to him would only reveal this directly. And Western media is highly reliable. Even FOX news has been covering the war objectively, with the exception of it's far right pundits who are attention seekers.

 

[F1fan]

In my opinion, your statement is fatally flawed in the sense that you no doubt believe with all your heart that there's no God, no transcendental signifier of truth.

Oh, we know there are thousands of Gods in man's history. We also know there is no factual basis for any of them. So there is no rational reason to assume and decide any exist.

In my opinion, that's the issue here. When I first opened my eyes to see, or at least as far back as I can remember, there was no doubt in my mind that someone or something clearly designed and created everything I saw and experienced. My growth and education only made that even more evident to me.

Well you should have more doubts about this view your "eyes opened to" because it is old and obsolete. Your opinion not only has no facts but is contrary to facts. But then again you praise a guy accused of war crimes, so we can question your judgment on these matters.

But if someone opens their eyes as a child, and doesn't intuit that all the vast design characteristics of life and the world require a transcendent designer, then that lack of intuition is of a biblical nature, and dimension, that could never be adjusted since the evidence of a creator or designer is so great that not intuiting that immediately infers the possibility, the likelihood, that no amount of evidence, added to utterly, absolutely, sufficient evidence, will budge that mind from its initial state of lack of perception of a transcendent creator designer.

Children also touch a hot stove after being informed it is going to hurt, so children make poor judgments and is bad advice you offer.

I offer a better approach, one as a mature adult and assessing nature and life well informed and with a moral sense. This way judgment can be made in a vastly more sensitive way to human suffering so we aren't praising a war criminal who is murdering women and children.

 

[F1fan]

As noted earlier in the thread, Gorbachev was given a guarantee from the West that if he could engineer a peaceful dismantling of the USSR the West wouldn't allow any of the members of the USSR to join a Western alliance allied against Russia.

While President Biden was calling reports that we had biological weapons research going on in Ukraine conspiracy theory, in another part of Washington one of Biden's science experts was in a hearing with Congress telling them that we need to guard our bio-weapons research in Ukraine so that the Russians not get hold of them, or release dangerous pathogens into the atmosphere.

Nope, this is right wing disinformation straight from Tucker Carlson. He totally misquoted the person giving testimony to congress.

The reality is that there were bolas in the former Soviet Union that had many dangerous substances and these had to be managed and disposed on in very specific ways. Ukraine even got rid of their nuclear weapons, so the conspiracy theory about biolabs doesn't hold any water. Chemical weapons are banned by international agreement and NATO.

Our government lies just like Russia's government lies (perhaps not as often).

Which is why trump was voted out. Now Putin doesn't have an ally in the West.

Putin is fighting Ukraine because they are breaking every treaty made when the USSR peacefully dismantled. Neither Ukraine, or their President, are the picture of courage and goodness the Western media are portraying them. They're decadent and ignorant and deserve what they're getting.

False, more Russian disinformation. Even if all this was true the civilized thing to do is resolve matters diplomatically. As it was the rhetoric coming from Putin was that NATO was a threat to Russia. This is odd given the aim of NATO and the EU was to maintain peace and stability so all nations can thrive without dumping money into military defense. Now Putin has disrupted 7 decades of peace. There is no excuse for this.

Their president could have negotiated a peaceful resolution before Russia ever moved troops to their border. Futhermore, when this is all said and done, Putin is very likely going to get far more than he would have if Ukraine was willing to negotiate rather than fight. And Ukraine is going to be a mess.

It's as if Canada would negotiate giving up their dully elected officials so US puppets would take over their governments. That won't happen. What Putin was demanding was not legal and not anything that could be negotiated. This is why Putin's solution was to destroy Ukraine, and murder many Ukrainian citizens.

I think you're giving a false analogy. War is different than other violence. Soldiers aren't tried for killing the enemy unless they violate some law. But killing the enemy doesn't violate the law. On the contrary. We give out medals to soldier who are good killers. We give them metals of "honor" because killing the enemy is honorable.

Putin and many of his generals are likely facing war crimes.

As Christians we're caught between the Kingdom of God, and the kingdom of the flesh. The latter requires that we eat, defecate, sleep, and defend any valuables we don't want taken from us; most valuable of all being our freedom from tyranny.

This illustrates how religion in its more extreme forms is a threat to humanity.

 

[John D. Brey]

Putin is the instigator of the current war.
At other times the finger has pointed elsewhere.

George Washington and the Continental Congress were the instigators of the War of Independence.

While I'm aware that BLM and MSNBC consider George Washington, Hitler, and Putin, all evil white men, I hope that attitude hasn't spread as readily as Covid, or else we're all in much greater danger from ideological pathogens contaminating the airwaves then we were or ever will be from biological diseases.




John

 

[John D. Brey]

Are you implying you've spoken to Putin?

No. It's you who spoke for Putin as though he's relayed information directly to you. You stated his goals and attitude so dogmatically that I assumed you'd spoken to him personally? Otherwise I wouldn't understand how you know his inner motivations and desires so perfectly that you could parrot them so dogmatically?

Are you Putin?



John

 

[John D. Brey]

As we can see through history Putin is corrupt and a liar, so talking to him would only reveal this directly. And Western media is highly reliable. Even FOX news has been covering the war objectively, with the exception of it's far right pundits who are attention seekers.

The fact of FOX news joining the bandwagon should allow you to appreciate the importance of this thread. It's the final frontier of the sane.




John

 

[Triumph]

In the thread discussing St. Paul's take on same-sex marriage, a theory was proffered that, if it's fully understood, leads to praise for Vladimir Putin. While the whole world gangs up on Putin, in truth, Putin is more like the character John Galt in Putin's fellow citizen's universally renown book Atlas Shrugged.

Though today's Christians pile on to the gang rape of Putin, their ancient ancestors, to include St. Paul, and the other Apostles, would be appalled at the Putin haters and not at Putin himself; they'd be appalled that Christians have become so blind and so willing to sell their soul for a crust of bread from their globalist, universalist, humanist, masters.

May our Lord strengthen Putin and enfeeble the feeble-minded oblivious to the fact that in their lust to destroy Putin they're actually destroying the world with whom they're so madly in love (1 John 2:15).




John

Paul was a disciple of Abraham not a disciple of Jesus, son of God since Jesus said he is not a son of David but Paul proclaims Jesus is. Paul tells people to believe what Paul says and curses people that do not believe it even though Jesus told people not to curse. Paul tells people not to curse with pretense to make himself sound righteous when Paul has no intention of obeying God or Jesus. Paul is not and never will be a saint or a true Christian.
Putin is a HEAD in the final war not caring people will die including innocent children as long as Putin retains power and wealth with full intent of restricting God granted freedom to his subjects.
Communism may sound good on paper but the reality is the leader attains the power of a Pharoah

 

[Ashoka]

George Washington and the Continental Congress were the instigators of the War of Independence.

While I'm aware that BLM and MSNBC consider George Washington, Hitler, and Putin, all evil white men, I hope that attitude hasn't spread as readily as Covid, or else we're all in much greater danger from ideological pathogens contaminating the airwaves then we were or ever will be from biological diseases.




John

Ahhhh, you're a neo-nazi. Now it all makes sense.

 

[John D. Brey]

Paul was a disciple of Abraham not a disciple of Jesus, son of God since Jesus said he is not a son of David but Paul proclaims Jesus is. Paul tells people to believe what Paul says and curses people that do not believe it even though Jesus told people not to curse. Paul tells people not to curse with pretense to make himself sound righteous when Paul has no intention of obeying God or Jesus. Paul is not and never will be a saint or a true Christian.

Triumph 3:16.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Ahhhh, you're a neo-nazi. Now it all makes sense.

Do you consider anyone opposed to BLM and MSNBC a neo-Nazi? If so, it now makes sense that you consider me a neo-Nazi.



John

 

[Ashoka]

Do you consider anyone opposed to BLM and MSNBC a neo-Nazi?



John

That has nothing to do with the subject at hand. You expressed that you did not feel Hitler was a bad man, and that you hoped that attitude of him being evil didn't spread.

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you, because I don't argue or give my time to Nazis. Bye.

 

[Triumph]

Triumph 3:16.



John

Exactly, if the world had followed Jesus becoming converted into belief that all are equal, none to be exalted above another, to be treated with love, kindness, mercy, compromise and generosity then war would cease to exist. True righteousness would be attained by all nations desiring all nations to have peaceful prosperity with none in control of another, all treated as beloved family.
Then the world would have peace because people would be peaceful.
Now, since people do not have mercy on Jesus and some refuse to believe he is the only begotten son of God, and some refuse to believe God exists, and some are spectacularly greedy, Hope is in rescue by the return of Jesus to this planet after that final nuclear war of extinction starts.

 

[Clara Tea]

Sad isn't it - that there were such people in the past and even now. You one?

PS Funny you should mention the gang-rape of Putin, since judging by a childhood photo of him where he looked a bit effeminate, one wonders if he didn't suffer from some sexual abuse as a child and hence his insecurities - leading to his coldness and macho image and such.

Putin has been treated much better as an adult. President W. Bush remarked that he trusted Putin because he had blue eyes. But are beautiful blue eyes really an indicator that someone is a man of peace? Wasn't the Nazi ideal blue eyes and blond hair (Hitler's hair was black)?

Abraham Lincoln was a hero of the United States for ending slavery. That precipitated the Civil War when the south seceeded because they were able to have slaves when they joined the union. Lincoln has been honored by having his picture on stamps and the penny, and there is a national holiday in his honor. Yet, the Civil War was the bloodiest battle that the United States ever fought, and both sides consisted of US citizens (or former citizens).

Putin had objected to being surrounded by countries that joined NATO, and he had been assured that they would not. It is much like the Cuban Missile crisis (Bay of Pigs), in which President John Kennedy difused the threat of Soviet missiles in Cuba by attacking the Cuban missile base.

Putin also objected that his Russian citizens were killed by roving vigilante terrorist bands in the Ukraine, and they were not brought to justice. One such attack occurred when their national football team, along with thugs dressed as Nazis, murdered Russians in the Ukraine.

The United Nations offered no solutions for Putin.

Facing military threats and terrorism, Putin felt that capturing the Ukraine, to reform the Soviet Union, was acceptable.

It is a pity, that shortly after military actions ceased in Afghanistan and Iraq, as we poise on the brink of world peace, Putin unilaterally attacked the Ukraine. No one dares to mess with Putin's 7,000 nukes, so they handle the situation delicately, not engaging Russia in an all-out war. An all-out nuclear war would last approximately 30 minutes, and would result in the death of virtually everyone in the United States, and perhaps a lot of people in Russia (and surrounding countries), as well.

China had just flown mach 10 missiles over Trump's air craft carrier (which tried to assure safe passage for ships in the China Sea after China cut off all other nations). It was a threat, but revealed that the Chinese had missiles twice as fast as the mach 5 of the United States.

Putin's aligned his Satan II nuclear missiles on his border when Hillary Clinton threatened nuclear war over the "alleged" (and denied) email hacking of John Podesta (Hillary's campaign manager) that revealed that Hillary cheated on a debate (had the questions ahead of the debate). Similarly, President Obama had been rattling sabers with Putin. President Trump stated that he wanted to have normal relations with Russia instead of riling them to war.

Putin's Satan II missiles have a 15 megaton payload, compared with the tiny bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima in 1945 (WWII), which had merely 20 kiloton payloads. So, Putin has nukes with nearly 1,000 times the energy, and likely can travel at mach 10.

The US is far behind Russian technology, and there are many other nations that have nukes (Iran, China, India, Israel, Pakistan....just to name a few).

The US stopped making nukes with the SALT agreement with the former Soviet Union, and destroyed missiles in a pact with the Soviets (who did the same...destroyed missiles).

Though the US and Russia both have enough nukes to destroy the world several times over, it is not clear that the US has the capability to get those missiles to their targets. Do Russians also have Star Wars (SDI) technology? Do Russians have shields to prevent the particle beams or laser/maser beams from destroying their missiles? We don't know. Arrogantly, the US presumed to know all about nuke projects, only to be surprised by new revelations.

The United States has been fighting (and losing) wars in Afghanistan and Iraq for 30 years. It is the longest war in US history and resulted in more terrorism as many more people joined ISIS (the al Qaeda). Complicating the war, the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) thought that ISIS was not the same as the al Qaeda, so gave them a fleet of brand new Toyota trucks to liberate Syria. Indeed the last S in ISIS means Syria, and they were trying to liberate it. The CIA also provided weaponry and training to the al Qaeda while they were fighting them (a lapse in intel). The CIA is a stumblebum organization that can't get its facts straight.

While the US fought in the Middle East, they expended huge sums of money, and only developed weaponry for fighting a third world nation without weapons. Thus, helicopters, hand held missiles, bayonets, etc., were used in the war. So no thought was paid to a looming nuclear war, and the US is, frankly, not prepared to do battle with a super-power. Getting their *** kicked by a 3rd world power, after 30 years of fighting, is proof of that.

Diplomacy must always be the first choice. Death, war, and torture camps are not a good alternative.

Ukrainians took a vote, years ago, to rejoin Russia. But the president of the Ukraine doesn't want to lose his power, and he is willing to kill his own citizens defending it from Russia.

The US is afraid of the growing power of the Communist bloc, and knows that the power of the combined nations (Russia and Ukraine) would poses as greater threat to world peace.

Conflicts between two nations could easily grow into a world war.

 

[Clara Tea]

Sounds exactly like what you are saying. Care to change your OP to reflect your intentions if what you've written isn't indicative of what you meant.

I looked the man (Putin) in the eye and saw ... the enemy

It seems as though the hatred of Gays results in support for homophobic Putin. I wonder if Putin was put off by President W. Bush remarking about his beautiful blue eyes?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...4f0c7c-984b-11e5-8917-653b65c809eb_story.html

Bush saw Putin's soul (beautiful blue eyes of the former KGB chief), and Obama wanted to communicate with Putin's brain.

 

[Clara Tea]

What I find funny. Is what Jesus and Paul actually had to say about violence and warfare.

What Does the Bible Say About War?

In the New Testament, war is universally seen as evil and Jesus emphasized peace instead. He advised us to avoid retaliation and revenge and to extend our love even to our enemies.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (NIV, Matthew 5:38-45)

The apostle Paul and other New testament writers echoed Jesus' sentiment and expanded on it.

Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. "But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (NAS, Romans 12:17-21)

Edit: Did Putin meet these requirements before waging his campaign?

"Christian theologians St. Augustine of Hippo (354 - 430) and St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) are primarily responsible for formulating the theory of the Just War which has remained the majority Christian approach to war to this day. There are many variations on the just war theory, but these are the basics:

There must be a just cause for the war.

War must be waged only in response to certain, grave and lasting damage inflicted by an aggressor.

The motive for war must be advancement of good or avoidance of evil.

The ultimate objective of war must be to bring peace.

Revenge, revolt, a desire to harm, dominate, or exploit and similar things are not justification for war.

Every possible means of peacefully settling the conflict must be exhausted first.

There must be serious prospects of success; bloodshed without hope of victory cannot be justified.

The war must be declared by a legitimate authority.

Private individuals or groups should seek redress of their rights through their governments, not by acts of war.

The war must not cause greater evil than the evil to be eliminated.

Non-combatants (civilians) must not be intentionally harmed.

Prisoners and conquered peoples must be treated justly.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Vladimir-Putin-a-Christian

In 1993, Putin declared himself an orthodox Christian. (source above)

Christians defy God..."thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek." Putin is not alone in this. President W. Bush (elected by the Religious Right) also killed and made torture camps.

Is this just a matter of mankind's imperfection? I don't think that I was justify Hitler's actions as minor imperfections, nor would I write off the wars of Putin nor W. Bush as minor imperfections. This goes far beyond imperfections.

Putin has never been considered a saint (former head of the now defunct KGB).

Putin does have some justifications for war in the Ukraine. The national football team of the Ukraine, along with a vigilante gang dressed as Nazis, killed Russians in the Ukraine. Putin objected, but the perpetrators were never brought to justice, and continue to be on their football team. Numerous nations around Russia joined NATO, and this places weaponry within striking distance. Just as it happened in Cuba (Cuban Missile Crisis, in which President John Kennedy attacked to mitigate the nuclear threat), Putin is lashing out to assure that the threat is decreased. Abraham Lincoln fought a civil war to unify the United States, and Putin's actions are very similar, except that the people of the Ukraine already voted to rejoin Russia (though their leader would lose power if they did).

 

[Clara Tea]

In life what sciences in Russia wanted to succeed to ....America and co already had agreed. Is practicing.

So Russia's science consciousness identifies itself as better than yours.

So you are looking at each other looking at each other claiming bad behaviour.

A brother who supported by his brothers world community itself to achieve his position. Sciences causes.

So everyone is meant to be doing a human life reassessment. By looking at bad human behaviour choice.

That attack says.... and I will blow myself up to blow you up mentality was already Muslim expressed. The warning man's psyche and ancient star fall science causes.

That the falling star owned the warning. Reasons why human brain mind behaviours become AI affected.

As the theist first unnaturally thought not for the owned natural spiritual human life where his consciousness existed with father mother. Instead it was a thesis national o earth gods origin body attack. How to convert mass.

Nation to nation.

So Russians said the Wests consciousness seems worse than ours. How many homosexual exist is by population only.

Not by causes why a homosexual human behaviour is expressed. As Russia has homosexuality also.

The scientist builder theist destroyer subliminal psyche is owned by every recorded changed human mind as criminal to sexual non identification himself.

As original theist. Why you can't reach his conscious identity to reason consciously humanely as it nearly non existent.

Was the exact man's ownership of destructive theist scientists warning to his owned person. Biblical predicted notified sacrificed mind crown of thorns.

Mind human the theist first.

I was brain gas water heated attacked the effect intense excruciating brain prickling.

Hair loss a sign of changed DNA. As radiation therapies causes hair loss proven.

Human consciousness loss of spiritual language self identity by the star fall Introduced artificial copying communicators. That took natural mind into false identities.

By communicating back from places of man's sciences evil causes in our heavens was the exact warning when human language changes.

Which it has. Language words changed. When humans lose natural history of man self identification then it has.

The places where the heavens normal life mind supported by heavenly imagery that never pre existed is now introduced causes.

A higher amount of man father's adult DNA gone into hu man sickness.

Was taught as all humans future warning signs. Predicted.

We owned two predictions. Known star fall return. Mans identification of the old teachings warning of introduced self destructive science copying.....to allow evolution by 2012.

Or to choose to copy the advice taking you into the warning no man is God. And all introduced scientific atmospheric causes by reapplying nuclear science again.

Man chose not to follow his owned warned instructions is where we are now. Living a future we never should have inherited.

I don't understand everything that you are trying to communicate.

 

[Clara Tea]

This makes me curious..
Do you agree with Putin's agenda?
Or do you consider him more a "necessary evil"; one of the scourges God sends to remind people which things matter in life, and to make more more obvious the differences between the wheat and the chaff so to speak?
Or is this more a criticism towards Christians about how a leader like Putin reflects Christian values more than Western leaders in your view, and are therefore hypocrites for condemning the actions of a man like him?

I am confused about Mr. Brey's motives, as well. He seems to be against Gays, and might be willing to support Putin because Putin is against Gays too. But maybe this is not correct?

 

[Clara Tea]

It's a terribly run war from all accounts. You don't have to get all your information from the MSM BTW.

I think of a "good war" like a "good plague." You really don't want it to be "well run."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't understand everything that you are trying to communicate.

I have the same problem, I would like to know what is being offered, but the words are not arranged in a way meaning can be determined.

One world language taught alongside the mother tongue is an answer to this issue.

Regards Tony