Predestination?

[ThePainefulTruth]

What's hard about faith? Faith is having a conviction in something that's unknown.

Faith without reason, much less being faith in an unknown, is an unfounded belief with nothing to support it but blind hearsay and emotions.

Does this mean having a conviction that paths are predetermined and man also has a choice but having no knowledge of the mechanics of how that works?

If our paths are predetermined, it's not possible to make our own moral choices--the morality would have been predetermined. The only way to be in charge of our moral destiny is by having free will, which if God exists, must be provided by God sharing part of It's own free will. And the exercise of free will requires a rational environment in order to make rational moral choices.

 

[David T]

In some cases, unequiped. I think there is a special dispensation for this.

You're speaking in tongues.

And that happens as soon as I start to address the self labeled "higher functioning" part of neurology. There is zero evidence of it actually being literally higher functioning and I might say dysfunctionally functioning is more appropriate. If that's primary then we have a communication breakdown. I believe I don't believe i I am agnostic has zero to do with anything other than to internal species opinion. Its not even relevant to the new testament

 

[Nakosis]

Faith without reason, much less being faith in an unknown, is an unfounded belief with nothing to support it but blind hearsay and emotions.

Right, when your ignorant about things all you have to go on is faith.

If our paths are predetermined, it's not possible to make our own moral choices--the morality would have been predetermined. The only way to be in charge of our moral destiny is by having free will, which if God exists, must be provided by God sharing part of It's own free will. And the exercise of free will requires a rational environment in order to make rational moral choices.

Not my narrative, but I was hoping the idea from the OP might get explained.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And that happens as soon as I start to address the self labeled "higher functioning" part of neurology. There is zero evidence of it actually being literally higher functioning and I might say dysfunctionally functioning is more appropriate. If that's primary then we have a communication breakdown. I believe I don't believe i I am agnostic has zero to do with anything other than to internal species opinion. Its not even relevant to the new testament

Is this a new form of English? I have not a clue as to what you are saying.

 

[Nakosis]

There's 2 Roads: One leads to Life.

One leads to Death.

If you want to choose the road that leads to life: No one can force you to choose otherwise.

Our Destiny is in the palm of our own hands !

Your destiny is in the palm of your hand only if you have full disclosure. Lacking that, it's a bit of a crap shoot.

 

[Nakosis]

Christ is predestined, not individuals. Ephesians 1:11 "In him we were also chosen..." The person who abides in the vine is part of the vine like a leaf, but the vine does not need them to exist. It is predestined, but they are not. Ephesians 1:5 "...he predestined us for adoption through sonship..." same thing here. Similarly John 15:5 "I am the vine. You are the branches..."

So like, God knows where he is going. It's up to individual man to decide if he is going to ride along or not?

 

[David T]

Is this a new form of English? I have not a clue as to what you are saying.

Belief,non belief, and agnosticism is just clueless. Lots of belief in the faith community and theology is worthless so all that befuddled nonsense, some find it confused for good reason. The church plays a role in a lot including non belief.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Belief,non belief, and agnosticism is just clueless. Lots of belief in the faith community and theology is worthless so all that befuddled nonsense, some find it confused for good reason. The church plays a role in a lot including non belief.

I see confusion everywhere. Even here and now. I'm confused as hell.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So like, God knows where he is going. It's up to individual man to decide if he is going to ride along or not?

I like the sound of that. It's how to get in the cart where the plot thickens.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Your destiny is in the palm of your hand only if you have full disclosure. Lacking that, it's a bit of a crap shoot.

I think that those who just can't get the concept of faith can be judged by natural law. Those who do righteously by nature can be judged to be righteous without faith. At least Romans can argue this.

I know, sue me, I'm a heritic.

 

[Prestor John]

I am a Latter-Day Saint and we believe that the whole of Mankind are God's literal spirit children and that we dwelt with God in His Kingdom before being sent to this world.

Even though we all entered into this world as innocent babes, our spirits still harbor the personalities, attributes, strengths and weaknesses that we had in the world before this one.

God loves us all and taught us what we needed to know before coming here, but each of us are individuals, with differences of perception and opinion.

Therefore, it is only natural that there would be those among us in this world that would refuse to live their lives on faith.

It all depends on how well we prepared before we came to this world.

This is not to say that our experiences in this mortal life cannot change us, but we need to understand that none of us were completely clean slates when we came here (personality-wise).

 

[Prestor John]

I am a Latter-Day Saint and we believe that the whole of Mankind are God's literal spirit children and that we dwelt with God in His Kingdom before being sent to this world.

Even though we all entered into this world as innocent babes, our spirits still harbor the personalities, attributes, strengths and weaknesses that we had in the world before this one.

God loves us all and taught us what we needed to know before coming here, but each of us are individuals, with differences of perception and opinion.

Therefore, it is only natural that there would be those among us in this world that would refuse to live their lives on faith.

It all depends on how well we prepared before we came to this world.

This is not to say that our experiences in this mortal life cannot change us, but we need to understand that none of us were completely clean slates when we came here (personality-wise).

 

[Brickjectivity]

So like, God knows where he is going. It's up to individual man to decide if he is going to ride along or not?

It is talking about adoption of gentiles and that they are atoned for if they abide in Jesus, so it involves commitment, denial of self and identification with Christ instead of self. I think this is connected to the practice of giving converts a Christian name in addition to their worldly name, and it relates to eucharist. 'You' lose yourself. Christ gains a Stephan or a Lydia.

There is a reality spectrum. At the real end is Christ and at the ephemeral unreal end is normal life -- everything and everyone that will fade. That which is in Christ is real and that which is outside of Christ is not. If you want to be real instead of imaginary then you must give up your normal self to become more true. Truth is holistic not merely about words but is about permanence, and that is what this concept of predestination is referring to. That which is not in Christ is earthly and not predestined, so its goodbye Beebee the normal person and hello Lydia the dedicated servant of all. Beebee was not true, but Lydia is. Its also described this way that all of a person's works will be tested by fire, and much that they have will be burned up. Its not merely their works, however but also themselves. That is the adoption, so it is not an adoption of you but of some new creature that replaces you. That is the predestined creature who is part of Christ.

 

[Nakosis]

It is talking about adoption of gentiles and that they are atoned for if they abide in Jesus, so it involves commitment, denial of self and identification with Christ instead of self. I think this is connected to the practice of giving converts a Christian name in addition to their worldly name, and it relates to eucharist. 'You' lose yourself. Christ gains a Stephan or a Lydia.

There is a reality spectrum. At the real end is Christ and at the ephemeral unreal end is normal life -- everything and everyone that will fade. That which is in Christ is real and that which is outside of Christ is not. If you want to be real instead of imaginary then you must give up your normal self to become more true. Truth is holistic not merely about words but is about permanence, and that is what this concept of predestination is referring to. That which is not in Christ is earthly and not predestined, so its goodbye Beebee the normal person and hello Lydia the dedicated servant of all. Beebee was not true, but Lydia is. Its also described this way that all of a person's works will be tested by fire, and much that they have will be burned up. Its not merely their works, however but also themselves. That is the adoption, so it is not an adoption of you but of some new creature that replaces you. That is the predestined creature who is part of Christ.

Almost sounds like a post referencing Buddhism I recently wrote.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Almost sounds like a post referencing Buddhism I recently wrote.

The thread of enlightenment is not foreign to the Bible.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I am a Latter-Day Saint and we believe that the whole of Mankind are God's literal spirit children and that we dwelt with God in His Kingdom before being sent to this world.

Even though we all entered into this world as innocent babes, our spirits still harbor the personalities, attributes, strengths and weaknesses that we had in the world before this one.

God loves us all and taught us what we needed to know before coming here, but each of us are individuals, with differences of perception and opinion.

Therefore, it is only natural that there would be those among us in this world that would refuse to live their lives on faith.

It all depends on how well we prepared before we came to this world.

This is not to say that our experiences in this mortal life cannot change us, but we need to understand that none of us were completely clean slates when we came here (personality-wise).

Why would you need faith when one has all these ancestral memories to guide them.

 

[Ponder This]

In my early days of being a narrow-minded Biblist I surmised that the paths were predetermined but man had a choice. After years of Don Quixote like attempts at trying to splain otherwise, I have come to see that some people just ain't gunna understand faith. It's like they're unequiped to process it.

What say you?

I think that they have hypnotized themselves. It's a self-affirming trance. Therefore, it is still possible for them to understand faith, just unlikely.

How to explain what faith is? Well, first of all, the decisions that people make are not based on full-information. It is not practical. Therefore, beliefs play a central role in the decisions a person makes. Trust without certain knowledge is faith. So people use faith everyday, even if they themselves do not acknowledge it.

A person convinced that God does not exist does not necessarily lack faith.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I think that they have hypnotized themselves. It's a self-affirming trance. Therefore, it is still possible for them to understand faith, just unlikely.

How to explain what faith is? Well, first of all, the decisions that people make are not based on full-information. It is not practical. Therefore, beliefs play a central role in the decisions a person makes. Trust without certain knowledge is faith. So people use faith everyday, even if they themselves do not acknowledge it.

A person convinced that God does not exist does not necessarily lack faith.

That's a whole nuther group of people when converted, become hypnotized Christians.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I am a Latter-Day Saint and we believe that the whole of Mankind are God's literal spirit children and that we dwelt with God in His Kingdom before being sent to this world.

Even though we all entered into this world as innocent babes, our spirits still harbor the personalities, attributes, strengths and weaknesses that we had in the world before this one.

God loves us all and taught us what we needed to know before coming here, but each of us are individuals, with differences of perception and opinion.

Therefore, it is only natural that there would be those among us in this world that would refuse to live their lives on faith.

It all depends on how well we prepared before we came to this world.

This is not to say that our experiences in this mortal life cannot change us, but we need to understand that none of us were completely clean slates when we came here (personality-wise).

Twice is nice.

 

[Quiddity]

This is an ancient discussion that will have most evangelicals [and or] protestants going in circles.

I'll give them a Klondike bar if they figure out the whole Predestination thing. As for faith.....