Prediction: How Progressive Christians Will Save Jesus

[joe1776]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

Jesus will have to love unconditionally because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) is a lesser kind of love that arrogant people offer as a manipulative device to coerce compliance with their wishes.

Jesus won't be presented as a front man for an unjust, vengeful god that loves conditionally (accept the Christian doctrine or you will go to Hell). Instead, Jesus will offer an example for people who strive to become better human beings as their only form of worship.

Jesus can't be presented as a pacifist. Consider this rabid dog analogy: We see a rabid dog in the street and recognize it as a danger both to human and animal life, so we have to kill it. We regret that the killing was necessary. The only thing we hate is our ignorance in not knowing how to cure rabies. The killing was an act of love for humanity and for other animals. Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Jesus would hate the sin but love the sinner. Consequently, he would see the wrongdoer as sick not evil. Thus, progressive Christians will advocate quarantine and not punishment for offenders. For example, child molesters might be sent to an adult-only town for life or until cured, even on a mild first offense. There, they could live and work normally but without access to children. The result would be a safer world for children.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

 

[Muffled]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

Jesus will have to love unconditionally because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) is a lesser kind of love that arrogant people offer as a manipulative device to coerce compliance with their wishes.

Jesus won't be presented as a front man for an unjust, vengeful god that loves conditionally (accept the Christian doctrine or you will go to Hell). Instead, Jesus will offer an example for people who strive to become better human beings as their only form of worship.

Jesus can't be presented as a pacifist. Consider this rabid dog analogy: We see a rabid dog in the street and recognize it as a danger both to human and animal life, so we have to kill it. We regret that the killing was necessary. The only thing we hate is our ignorance in not knowing how to cure rabies. The killing was an act of love for humanity and for other animals. Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Jesus would hate the sin but love the sinner. Consequently, he would see the wrongdoer as sick not evil. Thus, progressive Christians will advocate quarantine and not punishment for offenders. For example, child molesters might be sent to an adult-only town for life or until cured, even on a mild first offense. There, they could live and work normally but without access to children. The result would be a safer world for children.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

I believe Christianity is not dying. I believe the chaff is being sifted from the wheat. I believe Jesus will always be Lord and Savior to a Christian.

 

[Woberts]

Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

I think that someone is going to take that way to far. Especially considering how many Christians advocate for the death of LGBT folks.

 

[George-ananda]

What are your thoughts on this topic?

I have thought much the same way as you Joe.

Christianity is very entrenched in western tradition and in people's thinking about God and the purpose of life. The problem is that some of the thinking that may have worked in the past does not work today. Jesus as a core character can still and always work but that trappings among old-school beliefs and teachings do not fit the modern world with our increased education, knowledge and exposure.

Yes, Christianity needs a modern makeover. The core character (Jesus) can still work.

 

[joe1776]

I believe Christianity is not dying. I believe the chaff is being sifted from the wheat. I believe Jesus will always be Lord and Savior to a Christian.

Will you elaborate, please? In what way are the people staying "wheat" and the people leaving or simply not accepting the traditional faith of their parents, "chaff?"

 

[Drew Henefer]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

Jesus will have to love unconditionally because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) is a lesser kind of love that arrogant people offer as a manipulative device to coerce compliance with their wishes.

Jesus won't be presented as a front man for an unjust, vengeful god that loves conditionally (accept the Christian doctrine or you will go to Hell). Instead, Jesus will offer an example for people who strive to become better human beings as their only form of worship.

Jesus can't be presented as a pacifist. Consider this rabid dog analogy: We see a rabid dog in the street and recognize it as a danger both to human and animal life, so we have to kill it. We regret that the killing was necessary. The only thing we hate is our ignorance in not knowing how to cure rabies. The killing was an act of love for humanity and for other animals. Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Jesus would hate the sin but love the sinner. Consequently, he would see the wrongdoer as sick not evil. Thus, progressive Christians will advocate quarantine and not punishment for offenders. For example, child molesters might be sent to an adult-only town for life or until cured, even on a mild first offense. There, they could live and work normally but without access to children. The result would be a safer world for children.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

Adam is Jesus. How could Jesus tell you to forgive everyone their sins, without God having to forgive you for not even forgiving everyone, to be the example that hold up the truth?

 

[joe1776]

I think that someone is going to take that way to far. Especially considering how many Christians advocate for the death of LGBT folks.

How many Christians want to kill LGBT? Do we have a survey on that?

Obviously there are Christians and non-Christians who can twist any concept into something ugly.

 

[Drew Henefer]

How many Christians want to kill LGBT? Do we have a survey on that?

Obviously there are Christians and non-Christians who can twist any concept into something ugly.

Where's the Q. The Q is like people of faith.

 

[joe1776]

Adam is Jesus. How could Jesus tell you to forgive everyone their sins, without God having to forgive you for not even forgiving everyone, to be the example that hold up the truth?

I didn't follow that, Drew. Will you restate that, please?

 

[Drew Henefer]

I didn't follow that, Drew. Will you restate that, please?

Jesus is Adam, God's first son, The King of the Jews. Jesus requires that you forgive everyone, how could you be asked or held to something God could not do? God forgiving all sins means were covered.

 

[joe1776]

Jesus is Adam, God's first son, The King of the Jews. Jesus requires that you forgive everyone, how could you be asked or held to something God could not do? God forgiving all sins means were covered.

As I stated in the OP, Jesus can't be portrayed as loving unconditionally and then have him representing a god incapable of unconditional love.

In other words, for consistency, the traditional Christian god will have to be abandoned -- replaced by a Loving Creator who also loves unconditionally.

 

[Drew Henefer]

As I stated in the OP, Jesus can't be portrayed as loving unconditionally and then have him representing a god incapable of unconditional love.

In other words, for consistency, the traditional Christian god will have to be abandoned -- replaced by a Loving Creator who also loves unconditionally.

Or for God-hood you have to play a whole bunch of games to escape the trauma of even existing. The bible is a testament that re-creates himself. No other way to work it.(The Christian God is the God of Israel)Adam and Eve which is why we worship Jesus as being the human of birth right.

 

[Drew Henefer]

As I stated in the OP, Jesus can't be portrayed as loving unconditionally and then have him representing a god incapable of unconditional love.

In other words, for consistency, the traditional Christian god will have to be abandoned -- replaced by a Loving Creator who also loves unconditionally.

We might be telling each other the same thing. Theres no such thing as love.

 

[joe1776]

We might be telling each other the same thing. Theres no such thing as love.

I feel unconditional love for my children. I will love them whether they become saints or serial killers. But, I'm incapable of unconditional love for others. Yet, if a Loving Creator exists -- and I do allow the possibility -- I can't imagine it not being able to love unconditionally.

 

[Drew Henefer]

I feel unconditional love for my children. I will love them whether they become saints or serial killers. But, I'm incapable of unconditional love for others. Yet, if a Loving Creator exists -- and I do allow the possibility -- I can't imagine it not being able to love unconditionally.

Your kids don't become anything other than burdens to you, you'll probably start selling them out. It's too individua led to let yourself not be yourself. God can't love you because he only knows boundaries of self and self fulfilling interest?

 

[joe1776]

Or for God-hood you have to play a whole bunch of games to escape the trauma of even existing. The bible is a testament that re-creates himself. No other way to work it.(The Christian God is the God of Israel)Adam and Eve which is why we worship Jesus as being the human of birth right.

We're looking at the same evidence and coming to far different conclusions. I see the sacred texts of Judaism, Christianity and Islam as evidence that the authors were well-intended men, obviously citizens of morally immature cultures, who falsely claimed that their work was either God's words or words divinely-inspired by God.

 

[stvdv]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

Jesus will have to love unconditionally because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) is a lesser kind of love that arrogant people offer as a manipulative device to coerce compliance with their wishes.

Jesus won't be presented as a front man for an unjust, vengeful god that loves conditionally (accept the Christian doctrine or you will go to Hell). Instead, Jesus will offer an example for people who strive to become better human beings as their only form of worship.

Jesus can't be presented as a pacifist. Consider this rabid dog analogy: We see a rabid dog in the street and recognize it as a danger both to human and animal life, so we have to kill it. We regret that the killing was necessary. The only thing we hate is our ignorance in not knowing how to cure rabies. The killing was an act of love for humanity and for other animals. Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Jesus would hate the sin but love the sinner. Consequently, he would see the wrongdoer as sick not evil. Thus, progressive Christians will advocate quarantine and not punishment for offenders. For example, child molesters might be sent to an adult-only town for life or until cured, even on a mild first offense. There, they could live and work normally but without access to children. The result would be a safer world for children.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

Fantastic. My thoughts also. Except Jesus can be presented as a pacifist I think. If He has to kill the evil doers (as per 10 commandments), knowing the divorce statistics nowadays, then not many would survive. And when they survive the "marry till death do us part", probably they go down on one of the others. So I would think Jesus will not kill the wrong doers.

All other points I really like. This Jesus better come soon.

 

[Marcion]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

I've sort of found that Jesus/Yeshua in the tantric-mystic Yeshua of Q-lite.
But I'm not sure how many people will want to embrace that original Yeshua, they will likely miss Christianity.

The tantric Yeshua is not a pacifist, he does good by being practical (innocent as doves but shrewd as the serpents and Yeshua bringing the sword and throwing fire on the earth!).

 

[joe1776]

Fantastic. My thoughts also. Except Jesus can be presented as a pacifist I think. If He has to kill the evil doers (as per 10 commandments), knowing the divorce statistics nowadays, then not many would survive. And when they survive the "marry till death do us part", probably they go down on one of the others. So I would think Jesus will not kill the wrong doers.

All other points I really like. This Jesus better come soon.

I'm glad we mostly agree.

Maybe I should have given this point more emphasis: When Jesus loves unconditionally, he would not perceive evil. He would see sickness instead, just as we would see the rabid dog as sick not evil. We don't have to hate in order to kill but the killing is sometimes necessary to protect other innocent life from harm.

No one, certainly not Jesus, would consider divorce a wrongdoing warranting the death penalty in any case. But there are people far more dangerous who might give us no option other than to kill them to stop the threat.

 

[joe1776]

I've sort of found that Jesus/Yeshua in the tantric-mystic Yeshua of Q-lite.
But I'm not sure how many people will want to embrace that original Yeshua, they will likely miss Christianity.

The tantric Yeshua is not a pacifist, he does good by being practical (innocent as doves but shrewd as the serpents and Yeshua bringing the sword and throwing fire on the earth!).

I'm not familiar with the Q-lite. But, from what you wrote, my guess is that we probably agree that we humans need two sides of our nature, soft and hard. The hard side only when our survival is threatened by others. The Christian message "Do unto others..." works just fine unless the others are trying to kill you.