Prediction: How Progressive Christians Will Save Jesus

[Drew Henefer]

Fantastic. My thoughts also. Except Jesus can be presented as a pacifist I think. If He has to kill the evil doers (as per 10 commandments), knowing the divorce statistics nowadays, then not many would survive. And when they survive the "marry till death do us part", probably they go down on one of the others. So I would think Jesus will not kill the wrong doers.

All other points I really like. This Jesus better come soon.

Good and evil are divine ways to power intelligence and remove ignorance. Evil doers suffer their own hell, but this is the insecurity that life accrues being a factor of the whole. When God is father and the Devil is mother man is the child who is free in conscious. Marriage being heaven, every man being Jesus and becoming a factor of life whether confident or scared.

 

[Audie]

When was it ever traditional?

 

[David T]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

Jesus will have to love unconditionally because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) is a lesser kind of love that arrogant people offer as a manipulative device to coerce compliance with their wishes.

Jesus won't be presented as a front man for an unjust, vengeful god that loves conditionally (accept the Christian doctrine or you will go to Hell). Instead, Jesus will offer an example for people who strive to become better human beings as their only form of worship.

Jesus can't be presented as a pacifist. Consider this rabid dog analogy: We see a rabid dog in the street and recognize it as a danger both to human and animal life, so we have to kill it. We regret that the killing was necessary. The only thing we hate is our ignorance in not knowing how to cure rabies. The killing was an act of love for humanity and for other animals. Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Jesus would hate the sin but love the sinner. Consequently, he would see the wrongdoer as sick not evil. Thus, progressive Christians will advocate quarantine and not punishment for offenders. For example, child molesters might be sent to an adult-only town for life or until cured, even on a mild first offense. There, they could live and work normally but without access to children. The result would be a safer world for children.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

Oh joel osteen. Wow.

 

[David T]

I believe Christianity is not dying. I believe the chaff is being sifted from the wheat. I believe Jesus will always be Lord and Savior to a Christian.

church as a chaff container might be atually very accurate.

 

[Jumi]

We're looking at the same evidence and coming to far different conclusions. I see the sacred texts of Judaism, Christianity and Islam as evidence that the authors were well-intended men, obviously citizens of morally immature cultures, who falsely claimed that their work was either God's words or words divinely-inspired by God.

Or in some cases, people came afterwards and made their words mean something they didn't.

 

[sealchan]

Traditional Christianity is dying. But there's a progressive movement within it that I think has a good chance to salvage something worthwhile from the traditional version.

With some careful tweaking, Jesus can be presented as an exemplar, what the human character ought to be, useful for Christians and non-Christians, whether he was fictional or not.

Jesus will have to love unconditionally because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) is a lesser kind of love that arrogant people offer as a manipulative device to coerce compliance with their wishes.

Jesus won't be presented as a front man for an unjust, vengeful god that loves conditionally (accept the Christian doctrine or you will go to Hell). Instead, Jesus will offer an example for people who strive to become better human beings as their only form of worship.

Jesus can't be presented as a pacifist. Consider this rabid dog analogy: We see a rabid dog in the street and recognize it as a danger both to human and animal life, so we have to kill it. We regret that the killing was necessary. The only thing we hate is our ignorance in not knowing how to cure rabies. The killing was an act of love for humanity and for other animals. Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Jesus would hate the sin but love the sinner. Consequently, he would see the wrongdoer as sick not evil. Thus, progressive Christians will advocate quarantine and not punishment for offenders. For example, child molesters might be sent to an adult-only town for life or until cured, even on a mild first offense. There, they could live and work normally but without access to children. The result would be a safer world for children.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

My own effort to help Christianity involves reading the Bible as a literary work and determining how the culture in which its author's wrote impacted their moral and spiritual outlook.

I think that now we have to have the following principles in Christianity to return it to its core values:

• Abandon the need for literalist historicity - this is counter to growing research showing a lack of evidence to this effect, it also fosters an anti-science attitude which is absurd
• Non-heterosexuality is not a sin
• The Bible is written by inspired human beings and is not infallible or perfect
• Christianity is not an exclusive path to God
• Any truth in the Bible should also be describable in non-Biblical terms - or, alternatively, spiritual truths should generally have psychological correlates
• The works considered inspired or even canonical should be open to expansion

 

[Marcion]

I'm not familiar with the Q-lite. But, from what you wrote, my guess is that we probably agree that we humans need two sides of our nature, soft and hard. The hard side only when our survival is threatened by others. The Christian message "Do unto others..." works just fine unless the others are trying to kill you.

Q-lite: The reconstructed sayings of the tantric-mystic Master Yeshua

Q 10: 2-11 / Luke 10: 2-11 = Matthew 9: 37-38, 10: 15, 16, 7-14

2 He said to his disciples: The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. So ask the Lord of the harvest to dispatch workers into his harvest. 3 Be on your way! Look, I send you like sheep in the midst of wolves. So you be as shrewd as the serpents and as innocent as the doves!

Q 10: 19-20 / Luke 10: 19-20 Sondergut

19 See, I give you authority to trample on serpents and scorpions and over all the powers of the 20 enemy. And nothing will harm you in whatever way. Nevertheless, don’t rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that you are destined for the Rule of God.

Q 12: 49, 51 / Luke 12: 49, 51 [first half Sondergut] = Matthew 10: 34-36

49 Fire have I come to hurl on the earth, and how I wish it had already been blazed up! 51 Do you think that I have come to hurl peace on earth? I did not come to hurl peace, but a sword!

Some Christians think that Jesus was soft and that he taught his followers to be soft. But that is not the case, the tantric type of love of Yeshua is hard on the outside but loving and forgiving in the inside.

 

[Drew Henefer]

My own effort to help Christianity involves reading the Bible as a literary work and determining how the culture in which its author's wrote impacted their moral and spiritual outlook.

I think that now we have to have the following principles in Christianity to return it to its core values:

• Abandon the need for literalist historicity - this is counter to growing research showing a lack of evidence to this effect, it also fosters an anti-science attitude which is absurd
• Non-heterosexuality is not a sin
• The Bible is written by inspired human beings and is not infallible or perfect
• Christianity is not an exclusive path to God
• Any truth in the Bible should also be describable in non-Biblical terms - or, alternatively, spiritual truths should generally have psychological correlates
• The works considered inspired or even canonical should be open to expansion

Were thinking it's a direct testament of God. Representing the required diversity of the human males experience to achieve King hood of himself.

 

[Drew Henefer]

I believe Christianity is not dying. I believe the chaff is being sifted from the wheat. I believe Jesus will always be Lord and Savior to a Christian.

We...are Abels and Cains becoming Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus would see the necessary killing of dangerous human beings in self-defense as ultimately an act of love for humanity.

Except for this sentence, you’re post is kinda what progressive Xy already is and does.

 

[stvdv]

My own effort to help Christianity involves reading the Bible as a literary work and determining how the culture in which its author's wrote impacted their moral and spiritual outlook.

I think that now we have to have the following principles in Christianity to return it to its core values:

• Abandon the need for literalist historicity - this is counter to growing research showing a lack of evidence to this effect, it also fosters an anti-science attitude which is absurd
• Non-heterosexuality is not a sin
• The Bible is written by inspired human beings and is not infallible or perfect
• Christianity is not an exclusive path to God
• Any truth in the Bible should also be describable in non-Biblical terms - or, alternatively, spiritual truths should generally have psychological correlates
• The works considered inspired or even canonical should be open to expansion

You made my day totally. 5 years ago I challenged Jesus "Show me 1 Christian who dares to say Jesus is NOT the only way". That really is a difficult one for Christians. I met in real life not 1 Christian who "wholeheartedly" could state this. A handful managed to say "Maybe I should leave this to God; God should be the judge".
I only asked for "Christianity is not an exclusive path to God", but you added even a few more as a bonus.

And when Christians would implement these points they would be a great example for the Muslims. I do not hope Muslims will take 700 extra years though.
But then again, in this grand scheme of millions of years, what is 700 years. Sometimes I am a bit impatient, and like these things to speed up more.

 

[stvdv]

I'm glad we mostly agree.

Maybe I should have given this point more emphasis: When Jesus loves unconditionally, he would not perceive evil. He would see sickness instead, just as we would see the rabid dog as sick not evil. We don't have to hate in order to kill but the killing is sometimes necessary to protect other innocent life from harm.

No one, certainly not Jesus, would consider divorce a wrongdoing warranting the death penalty in any case. But there are people far more dangerous who might give us no option other than to kill them to stop the threat.

I believe that the Savior will come "with the sword of Love this time". He should not wait too long though; I would love to be around when this happens

 

[sealchan]

You made my day totally. 5 years ago I challenged Jesus "Show me 1 Christian who dares to say Jesus is NOT the only way". That really is a difficult one for Christians. I met in real life not 1 Christian who "wholeheartedly" could state this. A handful managed to say "Maybe I should leave this to God; God should be the judge".
I only asked for "Christianity is not an exclusive path to God", but you added even a few more as a bonus.

And when Christians would implement these points they would be a great example for the Muslims. I do not hope Muslims will take 700 extra years though.
But then again, in this grand scheme of millions of years, what is 700 years. Sometimes I am a bit impatient, and like these things to speed up more.

My list above is probably a deal breaker for so many Christians. Christianity is, for many, a social club and the secret handshake is broken by these ideas.

When I read the gospels or watch a movie about Jesus I feel a deep connection to God and to what it means to be a human being. I've had one or two extra-ordinary experiences which lead me to profess my faith as Christian. I know that it is possible to be a sincere Christian with a sense of accountability and duty without having to break these rules.

How do we show the rest of Christianity that this is possible? That we don't have to be at odds with our God given intelligence and the facts of what has actually happened in God's creation?

 

[joe1776]

Except for this sentence, you’re post is kinda what progressive Xy already is and does.

Dunno about that.

If there is a strong progressive effort to abandon Hell and a vengeful God capable of only conditional love; and if there is the unwillingness to portray Jesus as anything but a pacifist, I've missed both movements.

 

[sealchan]

Dunno about that.

If there is a strong progressive effort to abandon Hell and a vengeful God capable of only conditional love; and if there is the unwillingness to portray Jesus as anything but a pacifist, I've missed both movements.

I forgot about Hell...that's only a metaphor for the overall feeling one has while alive...same for Heaven.

 

[InChrist]

I feel unconditional love for my children. I will love them whether they become saints or serial killers. But, I'm incapable of unconditional love for others. Yet, if a Loving Creator exists -- and I do allow the possibility -- I can't imagine it not being able to love unconditionally.

Feeling unconditional love does not mean enabled evil, does it? You may love your children whether saint or sinner, but if you knew one was a serial killer would you turn them in or let them keep on killing unsuspecting victims without taking steps to prevent further harm? I think love involves justice, protection of the innocent and taking a stand against harmful, evil behavior.
God does love unconditional, but I don't see such love as allowing people to persist in their evil and harm behaviors for eternity.

 

[joe1776]

Or in some cases, people came afterwards and made their words mean something they didn't.

That's certainly true but I think the editing done was mostly to bring the moral messages in the text up to the improved contemporary standards.

 

[joe1776]

I forgot about Hell...that's only a metaphor for the overall feeling one has while alive...same for Heaven.

Are you saying that it's only a metaphor for you or that most Christians see it that way?

 

[Drew Henefer]

You made my day totally. 5 years ago I challenged Jesus "Show me 1 Christian who dares to say Jesus is NOT the only way". That really is a difficult one for Christians. I met in real life not 1 Christian who "wholeheartedly" could state this. A handful managed to say "Maybe I should leave this to God; God should be the judge".
I only asked for "Christianity is not an exclusive path to God", but you added even a few more as a bonus.

And when Christians would implement these points they would be a great example for the Muslims. I do not hope Muslims will take 700 extra years though.
But then again, in this grand scheme of millions of years, what is 700 years. Sometimes I am a bit impatient, and like these things to speed up more.

Jesus is the only way to Adam, therefore the only way to kingly rule with-in yellow God's kingdom

 

[Drew Henefer]

Are you saying that it's only a metaphor for you or that most Christians see it that way?

No one dies (wakeup, re-do your live until your the best you that removing all the ignorance from your conception can bring), our lives are equally geniused out. Heaven and hell is sorting based on marriage and self empowerment. We're all Adam to Jesus (Every Christ probably generates like the apocalypse for his people, they probably all immigrate starting off as war for their people disease until their the anti-Christ, bringing their peoples treasure to a new land. Americas is the pioneer spirit I believe)