Then dude, you really haven't looked into progressive Christianity much!
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Prediction: How Progressive Christians Will Save Jesus
- Thread starter joe1776
- Start date
Then dude, you really haven't looked into progressive Christianity much!
Where do you get that? I have evidence to the contrary.
In fact, one of the fastest growing, as per ABC News
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joe1776
Well-Known Member
The founders of Christianity didn't understand that the caring kind of love is always unconditional. They created a God who's love is conditioned on my acceptance of the Christian doctrine. If I don't accept it, I'll burn in Hell for eternity.
The God you worship is one mean dude. Even the Mafia Godfather has a sweeter disposition; he'll only bust my knees if I don't comply with his wishes.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
Please educate me, Dude. Just a few links would be sincerely appreciated.
To be honest I am basing it on my experience in churches and an accumulated history of reading. But you could go to these three Wikipedia pages and follow links from there: Progressive Christianity - Wikipedia, Liberal Christianity - Wikipedia and United Church of Christ - Wikipedia
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joe1776
Well-Known Member
We humans have been gifted with conscience. Our conscience is not offended when we kill in self-defense or to protect the innocent from the bully tyrants like an Adolf Hitler. If Jesus is portrayed as a pacifist, as many Christians seem inclined to do, he will be setting an example that contradicts the judgments of conscience. And, if all good people were pacifists, the bully tyrants would rule our world.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
I've seen those pages. But thanks for your effort.
So what is it you are looking for which you don't think existing progressive Christianity is providing?
joe1776
Well-Known Member
I explained that in the OP.
Unconditional love is absolutely fundamentally held to within much of Christianity.
You probably will struggle to find your anti-pacifism there, admittedly, in a tradition founded by a pacifist.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
That's a bogus claim. Christians worship a god who whose love is conditioned on acceptance of the Christian doctrine. Those who don't accept suffer in Hell eternally.
I think you'd struggle to find any progressive Christian who would say that. I have honestly never met a Christian who didn't believe God and Christ's love are conditional upon anything. What country are you in, joe? Maybe it varies depending on what you're exposed to. In the UK we have bishops of the Church of England standing up and saying that God's love is for all, that no human is beyond redemption, we have all sorts of liberal churches, and so on.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
My personal experience is with American Christians, but I have encountered many Christians on the Internet from all over the world.
I hear and read Christians making the same claim you made, but I rarely hear a Christian denying the existence of Hell. If Hell exists, God's love logically can't be unconditional.
Do Christians in your country deny the existence of Hell?
Plenty of Christians do, yeah. Or don't see it as permanent, or as metaphorical, or just don't think about it. If you asked a bunch of Anglican clergy in this country, or for that matter in yours, about the subject I reckon you'd get a range of answers. Methodists, Reformed, Old Catholics etc too, for that matter.
In Eastern Orthodox theology, heaven and hell are actually the same - eternal presence with God. If you love God and surrender, then it's heaven to you, but if you resist that and persist in your ego, then it's hell. That's an aside though.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
An American pastor had a very large, unusual congregation. It was half black and half white. He told them that God had spoken to him and said that Hell didn't exist. He lost two-thirds of his congregation.
Recently, when it was reported in error that Pope Francis had denied the existence of Hell, there was a furious Protestant reaction. Most accused him of being in league with Satan.
Carlton Pearson, yeah. He now still preaches to loads of people. Works with New Thought style churches and the Unitarians.
Yeah, I know. From the conservative rabble.
There are certainly those elements to Christianity. And if you are determined to find that they are all there is, then that is what you will find.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
You are determined to find fault with me. I must have hit a nerve. Sorry about that but it's hard not to step on someone's cherished beliefs when the topic is religion.
Certainly not! But like, man, there are totally Christians out there who are liberal, progressive, committed to unconditional love. Plenty
You haven't come across them, OK, that's a result of your local circumstances I guess. But there definitely are groups based entirely in Christ and a Christian ethos who live that fully. To me, following Christ actually entails being committed to unconditional love, even. And there are plenty of Christians with the same ideals on that score.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
Please quote me from the OP. What did I write that gave you the idea that I deny that progressive Christian groups exist that teach some of the concepts I wrote about?Certainly not! But like, man, there are totally Christians out there who are liberal, progressive, committed to unconditional love. Plenty
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Well, there's a lot of language in it about how Jesus will be like X, would have to be like Y, etc. When actually, rather than tweaking for ideological reasons there are legitimate, Christ-centred traditions already thriving which enjoin much of what you say.