Prejudice against Qur'an.

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Well clearly Allah already told us that Kuffar will never cease to hate the truth.


It is not Muhammad pbuh which they hate. But the revelation that was sent down to him.
Same way people of Noah rejected the messengers.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Fock,got carried away by the argument there,evryone in the UK have these kind of hate towards the muslims

Pfft. Speak for yourself.

 

[Shusha]

Well clearly Allah already told us that Kuffar will never cease to hate the truth.


It is not Muhammad pbuh which they hate. But the revelation that was sent down to him.
Same way people of Noah rejected the messengers.

Rather it is what the adherents DO with the revelation, not the revelation itself. The question relevant to you and this thread is what is to be done with the kuffar?

 

[Gharib]

The Qur'an is biased against me as an unbeliever, so I don't really care. When your book also calls Jews and Christians the 'worst of creatures' what do you expect?

That is besides the point. The video was about 'violent verses' and no one took a second thought to think that it wasn't the Qur'an. We have almost all faiths presented to us a peaceful other than Islam, but when you look a little deeper they all share the same amount of violent message.

And the Qur'an isn't biased against you as it is any more against me. It has it's rules to which one must conform otherwise you and I are viewed the same. The Qur'an speaks of disobedient Muslims almost in the same way as it speaks of non-Muslims (the hadith too)

 

[Gharib]

The Qur'an says that non-Muslims are the lowest of beasts, and that non-believers should either killed, subjugated, or converted. Only a mentally retarded person could have no problem with Islam.

Can you post those verses from the Qur'an which say what you claim. Or you didn't have something better to say?

 

[Gharib]

Video has been taken down by the owner.

I think part of the inherent problem with the Qur'an is that we unbelievers only need to read it. The Qur'an doesn't speak too kindly about us. The other problem with the Qur'an is that so many Muslims believe it is the literal word of God and that can be problematic. So, please, spare us the weeping about "prejudice" against the Qur'an.

That wasn't the point of the thread or the video. I know what the Qur'an says about non-Muslims and Muslims alike. I don't want people to think of the Qur'an as I do, but it is a prevalent attitude in the west that only the Qur'an contains 'violent teachings' while as some might have seen before the video was taken down the bible may be just as violent if not more by it's teachings in some verses.

People have adopted a view that Muslims and Islam are violent because we tend to follow our faith a bit more stricter than others, but the fact remains that Muslims are hardly ever violent in within the western countries that we live in apart from the recent Muslims are terrorists which has led to many people feeling like they are being victimized due to an evil group and therefore commit acts of evil against civilians.

 

[YmirGF]

That wasn't the point of the thread or the video. I know what the Qur'an says about non-Muslims and Muslims alike. I don't want people to think of the Qur'an as I do, but it is a prevalent attitude in the west that only the Qur'an contains 'violent teachings' while as some might have seen before the video was taken down the bible may be just as violent if not more by it's teachings in some verses.

People have adopted a view that Muslims and Islam are violent because we tend to follow our faith a bit more stricter than others, but the fact remains that Muslims are hardly ever violent in within the western countries that we live in apart from the recent Muslims are terrorists which has led to many people feeling like they are being victimized due to an evil group and therefore commit acts of evil against civilians.

Gharib, the prevalent attitude in the west is a gross ignorance of Islam and what it does and does not teach, without even getting to the the myriad of nuances found in the opinions of your so-called "scholars". The vast majority have never even seen a Qur'an, let alone read one from cover to cover, in any language, let alone studied it for years on end. The point is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims believe the Qur'an is the literal word of god. Christians can easily dismiss what is in their Bible as being the fables of a bygone era, mythological tales created to explain complex aspects of human nature and the human condition. Due to the nature of Islamic scholarship and how opinions are given credence, Muslims are not quite so unlimited in their ability to be critical of their single source text, though the hadiths are a different animal altogether.

In regards to seeing Muslims as being terrorists, it is extremely unfortunate that so many have had the religion they love hijacked by a lunatic fringe that has a penchant for behaving badly. If only there were not so many groups to cite and so many terrible incidents - in recent memory - for people to draw on. For example, as soon as I heard of the shootings in San Bernadino, I immediately assumed that the shooters were Muslims. My reasoning was simple. There is virtually no other group of people that is giving rise to this type of virulent strain of killers. Though it is important to remember that all Muslims are not fanatical terrorists, it is also fairly accurate to say that a good number of terrorists these days, sadly, consider themselves to be devout Muslims - regardless of what others think or say about them. In no way should people hold average Muslims responsible for these acts and violence or acts of retribution against average Muslims should be dealt with severely.

Personally, I don't know what the answer is, Gharib. I respect you and I wonder if you have any ideas?

 

[psychoslice]

I myself am against any scriptures that goes against freedom, be that whatever, all this does is destroys our freedom, no religion has that or should have that power, all religions should keep their beliefs to themselves, and not rub it into anyone's face, like crap, this is wrong, and should be wiped of the face of our planet for the good of all.

 

[Laika]

Prejudice against Qur'an exposed via social experiment

http://www.dailysabah.com/religion/2015/12/06/prejudice-against-quran-exposed-via-social-experiment

Do you agree/disagree that this is the norm of western thinking about Islam.

Do you think it's the media that's responsible for it or is it just what people choose to believe.

What could be an effective way to counter it. Should Muslims themselves do more or are we doing more but get no coverage from the media as that's not what they wish to propagate about Islam.

I am more than happy to admit that a significant portion of the west is probably prejudiced against the Qu'ran and Islam. I am also comfortable admitting that the media has contributed to this perception as well. Muslims can only do so much and I think this is probably going to be a very long term battle over religious identity as globalisation, secularism and religious orthodoxy collide.

A major part of the problem is the simplistic "good versus evil" moral narrative in the west (and possibly amonmgst the muslim world) which means we omitt our own failings whilst condemn everyone elses as characteristic. This is not a problem that is unique to Islam, as historically the same pattern has been played out before. it is characteristic of western paranoia of "alien" beliefs as being of the devil (though now we use secular language, often of mental illness to describe the source of evil). I genuinely don't know how to turn the tide of Islamophobia but I probably should sit down and read some religious texts to know what is actually in them. I might at least be able to help Muslims on RF better as they don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush. no religion or belief system is entirely good, because no human being is either. our beliefs reflect that our moral fallability.

 

[Crypto2015]

No True Scotsman fallacy. By this logic there are no Christian churches or sects anywhere because all churches and sects are earthly institutes whose members claim to (uniquely, in many cases) understand God's will on Earth.




As I said before, you're wrong. I, at least, have given you examples of why you're wrong.




Tell that to the countless monarchs who were under the belief that God sanctified their respective reigns. Christianity started out apolitical but became political.




No True Scotsman again. You have no authority to define what is and is not True Christianity. If the people involved profess a belief in Jesus then they're Christian.




Jesus himself was an example of a religious and political force. He amassed a following, subverting the religious and political authority of the Jewish religious leaders of his day, and attempted to undermine the Jewish religious tradition by announcing their rituals had become obsolete.




Okay, fair enough. The list involved doesn't just include Christian terrorism. So I was wrong in insinuating that it was just a list of Christian terrorist acts.




Having a mental illness doesn't stop a person being Christian. Dr Tiller wasn't just attacked by Roeder either; he was shot by Shelly Shannon who is a convicted Christian terrorist - and she in turn inspired another terrorist, Paul Hill, to shoot Dr John Britton and his bodyguard. Paul Hill also studied under Greg Bahnsen who is one of the founders of Christian Reconstructionism.

Christianity is up to its neck in this - it's the primary motivation for these attacks and the CR movement.




Again, that was based on my assumption that the list contained only acts of Christian terrorism. The list itself is not dishonest - my initial interpretation of said list was a mistake.

Oh, and just by using your above logic, most atrocities by Islamic State aren't acts of terrorism because their victims are mostly other Muslims. You might want to stop and think about the double-think you're employing.

I notice, of course, that you haven't gone near the list of Christian terrorist actions listed by Bryn Greenwood on Twitter. Telling.

Christianity is the set of beliefs contained in the Bible. It is a not an organization or a group of people. Christianity is and will always be the same, regardless of what its followers claim to do in its name. The Church, on the other hand, is the group of people who claim to follow the teachings of Christianity. I acknowledge the fact that the Church has made both beautiful and horrible things in the past. However, Christianity cannot be praised or blamed for the actions of the Church, unless there is significant reasons to believe that the actions of the Church are a direct consequence of the teachings contained in the Bible. As I said before, Christianity, the set of beliefs, is apolitical. I provided quotes from Jesus and Paul to prove this. The Church may not be apolitical, but that has nothing to do with Christianity. For example, if a vegan eats meat, does that mean that Veganism allows the consumption of meat? Absolutely not. We know that it doesn’t because if you examine the teachings associated with Veganism you realize that eating meat and being a vegan are incompatible with each other. The same thing can be said between Christianity and violence. Those Christians that commit acts of violence do it in contravention to the teachings of Christianity.

Now what about Islam. After studying the sacred texts of Islam I must say that most Muslims are better than their prophet and much superior to the teachings of their religion. Peaceful Muslims are peaceful in spite of Islam and not thanks to Islam. A cursory read of Sahih Bukhari suffices to understand this.

By the way, Jesus had no political goals. Claiming the opposite exposes your ignorance about the New Testament. Just read the Gospels and you will understand why you are wrong. Also, Jesus had no problem with the political authority of the king of the Jews, Herod. He only objected to the actions of the priests because the priests were falsely claiming to do God’s work.

 

[Crypto2015]

Can you post those verses from the Qur'an which say what you claim. Or you didn't have something better to say?

"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:55)

Why do you say that the West is prejudiced against Islam while at the same time using the Black flag of Jihad? Do you support ISIS?

 

[Gharib]

"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:55)

Why do you say that the West is prejudiced against Islam while at the same time using the Black flag of Jihad? Do you support ISIS?

[8:55] Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -

The word 'animal' is not mentioned in the Arabic text. And you haven't provided any evidence about non-believers having to be killed, subjugated or converted.

Your dishonesty and hypocrisy is noted.

 

[stevevw]

I think some people can be more biased, racist and therefore be more prone to stereotyping, and assuming certain things than others. It depends on the country and culture. I think Australia is fairly racists as we have shown the same sort of attitude towards other foreigners that came to our country in the past and towards indiginous people. This maybe because of our beginnings in that we were mostly invaders and settlers to a foreign land. But also because we are isolated and dont have much contact with other countries and their cultures. Whereas i Europe or Britain they are use to mixing with other countries.

But I think when another race does something wrong this will be emphasized and its easy for some to fall into stereotyping others. I noticed the French had a fairly understanding and tolerant response to the everyday Muslim in their country. They have a very large Muslim population and I think they know that most are good decent people who are law abiding. So they have got to know them better. Here is Australia or in other countries where we might not have the knowledge to get to know Muslims on a more personal level we will have uneducated views.

But the acts that the minority of extremist Muslims do can have a big affect on peoples attitudes. Negatives always stand out and especially if you are personally affected. We have this same attitude towards boat people in general, people of the dole, single mums who we things are milking the system so we things all are the same. We here the negative news stories or whatever the media has decided to emphasize and run with that. So the media does have a part to play as with anything. Its probably not so much that the media runs the story but the way they tell it.

 

[CATSISS]

[8:55] Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -

The word 'animal' is not mentioned in the Arabic text. And you haven't provided any evidence about non-believers having to be killed, subjugated or converted.

Your dishonesty and hypocrisy is noted.

Well doesnt matter if im a plant or an animal,as long as im a "CREATURE" and i dont believe his nonsense he would send me to hell right?if yes he doesnt worth a penny,if no im probably not a "CREATURE".

 

[MARCELLO]

Well clearly Allah already told us that Kuffar will never cease to hate the truth.


It is not Muhammad pbuh which they hate. But the revelation that was sent down to him.
Same way people of Noah rejected the messengers.

Am I kuffar to reject Koran's messages about christians and jews?

Am I kuffar to reject verses of Koran that advises beating of women or giving them less as heritage?

 

[Crypto2015]

[8:55] Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -

The word 'animal' is not mentioned in the Arabic text. And you haven't provided any evidence about non-believers having to be killed, subjugated or converted.

Your dishonesty and hypocrisy is noted.

"Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -" (Surah 8:55) Sahih International Version.

You support ISIS and you want to trick people into believing that Islam is a peaceful religion.

 

[MARCELLO]

Lets say,I have an average IQ; I have toilet education,can read and write,do some maths calculation,better than apes But I fully comprehend ISIS is a product of islamic teachings which advise non muslims to be beheaded. Pls google the chapters doing so far. A religion advising women to be beat cannot be a religion.

By the way, it is so easy,chaps, just ignore these chapters,but then pls do not tell me lies that every word of Koran is coming from God. God did not evolve under 65 degrees celcius. You got it?

 

[MARCELLO]

"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:55)

Why do you say that the West is prejudiced against Islam while at the same time using the Black flag of Jihad? Do you support ISIS?

I have not ever seen any community opposing west but flooding to west in tens of thousands . I dunno if the word dilemma is the right to be put.

 

[Unification]

"Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are those who have disbelieved, and they will not [ever] believe -" (Surah 8:55) Sahih International Version.

You support ISIS and you want to trick people into believing that Islam is a peaceful religion.

What's so bad about that verse, and there are also many versions. You're doing the same thing... Calling the disbelievers in peace, purity, and mercy as the worst of living creatures. (ISIS members.)

 

[YmirGF]

What's so bad about that? You're doing the same thing... Calling the disbelievers in peace, purity, and mercy as the worst of living creatures. (ISIS members.)

From a psychological viewpoint, having a god sniveling over who he likes and dislikes is a pretty thin gruel. It makes "god" sound like a rather petty human animal in that he would even think to mention this in his dreary little book.