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Pride

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
In my formative years, I was taught that pride was one of the Seven Deadly Sins™ by the Catholic church. As I understand it, this is a teaching that extends across Christianity in general, whether it's considered a 'capital vice' or a 'cardinal sin.' This isn't so much Biblical dogma (I'm not aware of these appearing anywhere in the Bible), but as Christian philosophy.

In my current religious philosophy, managing the ego (which, as I see it, can drive pride or by driven by pride) is important in the path to Self-realization.

Yet it would appear in society, we appear to be driven by pride, be it national pride, gender pride, racial pride, and others, even religious pride.

Personally, I recognize two types of pride:
  • Virtuous pride - a sense of pride in accomplishment by another (being proud of someone).
  • Vanity pride - a sense of pride arising from something one already is or has.

I have a few questions for you, whether you are religious or irreligious:

Does it make sense to be proud of something you were born into and are with no effort on your part? If so, how? What does such pride accomplish?

What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?

___________________________________________________

 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
In my formative years, I was taught that pride was one of the Seven Deadly Sins™ by the Catholic church. As I understand it, this is a teaching that extends across Christianity in general, whether it's considered a 'capital vice' or a 'cardinal sin.' This isn't so much Biblical dogma (I'm not aware of these appearing anywhere in the Bible), but as Christian philosophy.

In my current religious philosophy, managing the ego (which, as I see it, can drive pride or by driven by pride) is important in the path to Self-realization.

Yet it would appear in society, we appear to be driven by pride, be it national pride, gender pride, racial pride, and others, even religious pride.

Personally, I recognize two types of pride:
  • Virtuous pride - a sense of pride in accomplishment by another (being proud of someone).
  • Vanity pride - a sense of pride arising from something one already is or has.

I have a few questions for you, whether you are religious or irreligious:

Does it make sense to be proud of something you were born into and are with no effort on your part? If so, how? What does such pride accomplish?

What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?

___________________________________________________

1: no it does not make sense to be proud or pride, og my understanding.
2: Pride is an attachment and it is nessesary to end it, otherwise wisdom will not arise proppely .

I work on my attachments and do my best to end the pride that would arise within me, if it happens.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Pretty much as you described @SalixIncendium.

Second question first:

What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?

Pride, in its 'vainglorious' form of an “inordinate [excessive] desire to excel or perception that one does excel" over other people, was described by Pope St. Gregory the Great as the father and foundation for all other sins. In his Summa Theologica, St. Thomas Aquinas cited the Book of Ecclesiasticus to opine that pride “…is the beginning of every sin.” (ST, I-II, 84.2)

In the church's tradition, therefore, pride is often associated with the devil and the first sin:


"Who does not know that kings and dukes had their rulership from those who, not knowing God, strove from blind greed and intolerable presumption to dominate their equals, namely mankind, by pride...urged on by the ruler of the world, i.e., the devil?

Therefore all Christians who desire to reign with Christ should be warned not to strive to rule through ambition of worldly power…"


(Pope Gregory VII in 1081: 552; see also Poole 1920: 201, fn. 5)

In his Introduction to the Devout Life, St. Francis de Sales (1567 – 1622) pretty much answers (from my perspective) your first question. Does it make sense to be proud of something you were born into and are with no effort on your part? If so, how? What does such pride accomplish?

He writes on so-called 'vainglorious pride':


"Vainglory is the glory that we give ourselves; either for what is not really in us, or for what is in fact in us but not owing to anything we did, or for what is in us and owing to us but which does not deserve to be the cause of a boast…. There are those who are proud and haughty because they ride a magnificent horse or because their hat sports a fancy feather, or because they are wearing some fashionable clothing. Who does not see the folly here? If there is glory due, it belongs to the horse, the bird or the tailor! And what a pitiable heart is his who expects esteem because of a horse, a feather or some lace!"


This is why Jesus set a different exemplar of supreme humility for others to follow:


"....Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility regard others as better than yourselves.

4 Let each of you look not to your own interests, but to the interests of others. 5

Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus,6 who, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
as something to be exploited,

7 but emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
being born in human likeness.

And being found in human form,
8 he humbled himself
and became obedient to the point of
death—
even death on a cross.

9 Therefore God also highly exalted him
and gave him the name that is above every name
..."

(Philippians 2:3-9)​


This ancient Christological hymn embedded within Paul's epistle to the church in Philippi, describes how the preexistent, eternally divine Christ freely relinquished his position of equality with God, "emptying" himself by taking on the bodily form of a human peasant, the son of a carpenter and submitting himself to a slave's death on the cross, as an example to the rest of humanity. For this act of profound humility, God exalts his name above every name (according to the incarnational myth).

Paul thus invites his reader's to consider an existential question by reflecting upon this 'mythic' narrative: if someone pre-existing in the “form of God” could humbly abdicate his 'divinity' so as to take on a lowly human form in self-abegnatinf service to other people - living among lepers, prostitutes and others at the bottom of the human social hierarchy - and suffer the death of a condemned criminal in order to demonstrate his self-giving love for humankind, can the Philippian Christians really be justified in not exhiniting a similar humility in their daily lives? Shouldn't they too abandon all "selfish ambition and conceit", so that the same humble mind of Christ might be in them?

I certainly do try to follow Christ's example and teaching as the model for my own life, as I believe 'vainglorious' pride to be a social sin that not only damages oneself psychologically but can harm other people around us as well, given that it amounts to a deluded egocentrism rather than an altruistic attitude.
 
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Eddi

Believer in God
Premium Member
Does it make sense to be proud of something you were born into and are with no effort on your part? If so, how? What does such pride accomplish?
I identify with some of the things I was born into (E.g. nation) with no effort on my part:

Therefore I feel pride in the achievements of those things, based on my personal identification with them, even if I personally invested zero effort into whatever accomplishments they may have attributed to them.

I think there is individual pride which may be felty by an individual, and group pride, which is shared by a group.

What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?
In my religion/world view there is boastful pride and humble pride.

It's OK to be proud of certain things you've acomplished (humble pride) but it's not OK to be proud of yourself (boastful pride) for doing those certain things you are proud of. If that makes any sense???
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I think that within Christian ideology, pride is seen as a denial of God's divine spirit within us, in favor of the illusion that it was our own spirit that accomplished the goal, and deserves the praise. It is forgetting that everything good that we are, and do, is a manifestation of that divine spirit within us. And that it's only be setting our 'selves' aside, and allowing that divine spirit within us to motivate and drive our actions, that we can achieve anything truly good.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
Forgive me for not answering the questions in the OP, but if the topic is PRIDE there's an important aspect commonly overlooked: Group pride, usually considered a virtue, is actually disguised arrogance.

We know intuitively that a man who is especially proud of being Irish and Catholic would be equally proud, if by some twist of fate, he had been raised to think of himself as German and Lutheran. He's proud of his groups because they're HIS groups.

I think most wars have been fought because the always present flip side of group pride is group prejudice in which the arrogance isn't disguised but obvious::

Our religion is superior to theirs!
Our nation is superior to theirs!
Our race is superior to theirs!
Our tribe is superior to theirs!
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In my formative years, I was taught that pride was one of the Seven Deadly Sins™ by the Catholic church. As I understand it, this is a teaching that extends across Christianity in general, whether it's considered a 'capital vice' or a 'cardinal sin.' This isn't so much Biblical dogma (I'm not aware of these appearing anywhere in the Bible), but as Christian philosophy.

In my current religious philosophy, managing the ego (which, as I see it, can drive pride or by driven by pride) is important in the path to Self-realization.

Yet it would appear in society, we appear to be driven by pride, be it national pride, gender pride, racial pride, and others, even religious pride.

Personally, I recognize two types of pride:
  • Virtuous pride - a sense of pride in accomplishment by another (being proud of someone).
  • Vanity pride - a sense of pride arising from something one already is or has.

I have a few questions for you, whether you are religious or irreligious:

Does it make sense to be proud of something you were born into and are with no effort on your part? If so, how? What does such pride accomplish?

What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?

___________________________________________________



I think the call to pride is often a response to cultural shaming. When society at large judges you as being lessor. Pride in this sense is a matter of acceptance of yourself. Of seeing yourself not a superior but as equal. When society says you ought to be ashamed of being White, Black, Brown, Yellow male, female, different etc... You reject society's moral judgment and claim there is nothing wrong with you just because you are different.

If we were all seen as equal, yes there would be no need for such pride.

There is also pride as a sense of accomplishment. To have overcome a difficult challenge. Others look at you with inspiration. To know that overcoming difficult challenges is possible. "Look what I have done". "If I have done it, so can you".

Pride can be a matter of vanity but it doesn't have to be.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?

Pride can be one expression of the lower self which seeks to distinguish itself from others - what the OP called "vanity pride".

Meher Baba indicated about what I think can be called "virtuous pride" when responding to an actor's question. As long as I can be a self-reflective witness to my motivations (I try and fail and try again), I do work on adhering to this:

White acting, think that you are one of the greatest actors of the world, and try to express yourself thoroughly. I will help you spiritually. Just think you are the greatest [actor]. Where’s the harm in thinking like that, It is not for pride that you do it, but for bringing the best out of you There is nothing wrong.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
If I should feel ashamed for something that I have done that merits that feeling of shame, why should I not feel pride for something that I've accomplished that merits it?
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I think this thread is about the various meanings of the word pride.

It is very good to feel genuinely good about one's self for doing genuine good; this I would call genuine pride.

The false pride of vain pride seeks to glorify the self above others and is no real giver of anything genuine. They set about to achieve their glory and power and prestige to make things well only for themselves, and perhaps those that make them look good.

While humility seeks to make everyone genuinely better.
 

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
Does it make sense to be proud of something you were born into and are with no effort on your part? If so, how? What does such pride accomplish?

In a sense, Hindu view of 'Karma' contributes towards pride. Because, we earn something valuable, even via birth-into, only for the reason we have the right amount of merit towards earning the same.

In other ways, the society will not let us shed our pride. So much reinforcement on the well-off, the rich, the beautiful, the accomplished. This strengthens our pride of whatever we possess.

What does your religion or worldview teach you about pride? Do you adhere to these teachings? Why or why not?

I too have some degree of pride over a few things. My religion claims 6 different types of bondage causing sins. Pride is one of them. Many poems written by sages quoting the 6 cardinal sins that one should get rid of.

Routine spiritual practice is encouraged to get rid of pride. I try to, but I am not too vigorous.
 
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