Printing Money

[Heyo]

I want to print my own money.

At least if the usual money disappears as is planned by some. My guess is that at least some people would like to hold on to tangible money.

The idea is to start it as some "game" money or insider money. Maybe start some innocuous club like a town beautification club where you need to be a member to have access to that money. I'd start small and slow and see where it goes.

The principle ideas are:
- It is a club intern money. No competition with government money and not exchangeable.
- It has an expiration date. At the beginning that would be a month or a quarter, later a year or some years.
- You have to offer some goods or services that you are willing to sell for the internal money to participate.
- At the beginning of a "round", everyone is given money. At the beginning it would be a small amount, in fact the smallest amount anyone is offering goods for.
- The bills are marked (numbered?) and you can't return a bill initially given to you.
- At the end of a "round", everyone is "paying back" what they've been given. Not everyone will be able to do so and some will have more money than they started with.
- Those who "lost" money will have to chip in government money (and time) to pay for ink, paper and other costs of the printing process. (Which will then be used to set up the next "round".) Also, they will get less start money in the next round.
- If you have "won" money (or broke even), you can get more start money in the next round if you wish. (But there will always be some cap.)

The incentive of the game is to circulate the money (you can't return the initial money) and if you happen to sell more than you initially planned, you want to get rid of that extra money before it expires.
This money has some features usual money doesn't have: it can't be accumulated as it expires fast; it doesn't produce interest (at least not in the long run); it is "community owned").

Any thoughts? Would you use such money if it were available to you?

Tagging @EconGuy as he has probably the most to say about this.

 

[ChristineM]

I want to print my own money.

At least if the usual money disappears as is planned by some. My guess is that at least some people would like to hold on to tangible money.

The idea is to start it as some "game" money or insider money. Maybe start some innocuous club like a town beautification club where you need to be a member to have access to that money. I'd start small and slow and see where it goes.

The principle ideas are:
- It is a club intern money. No competition with government money and not exchangeable.
- It has an expiration date. At the beginning that would be a month or a quarter, later a year or some years.
- You have to offer some goods or services that you are willing to sell for the internal money to participate.
- At the beginning of a "round", everyone is given money. At the beginning it would be a small amount, in fact the smallest amount anyone is offering goods for.
- The bills are marked (numbered?) and you can't return a bill initially given to you.
- At the end of a "round", everyone is "paying back" what they've been given. Not everyone will be able to do so and some will have more money than they started with.
- Those who "lost" money will have to chip in government money (and time) to pay for ink, paper and other costs of the printing process. (Which will then be used to set up the next "round".) Also, they will get less start money in the next round.
- If you have "won" money (or broke even), you can get more start money in the next round if you wish. (But there will always be some cap.)

The incentive of the game is to circulate the money (you can't return the initial money) and if you happen to sell more than you initially planned, you want to get rid of that extra money before it expires.
This money has some features usual money doesn't have: it can't be accumulated as it expires fast; it doesn't produce interest (at least not in the long run); it is "community owned").

Any thoughts? Would you use such money if it were available to you?

Tagging @EconGuy as he has probably the most to say about this.

What's money?

Not used any for several years. Even a cup of coffee at a café shop is just the swipe of a card away.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think this would be a very good solution in an Utopian world.
That is, that you would be actually the Central Bank of an economic system within a country,
Or that State that directly prints its own governmental bonds which are used as "alternative currency" to buy goods and services that accept this kind of payment. That is, the State issues these bonds and gives them to the people in exchange for goods and services (like the construction of a school or an hospital).

Unfortunately, it's the greed of certain banking dynasties which prevent such systems from being implemented.
It deals with people who use money and wealth to fill the desperate and terrible void of their minds.
That is, they have no intelligence or intellect, so they think that billions of euros can give their dull lives a meaning.

These dynasties steal the Seigniorage (that is what's called the system you described, more or less) from states.

 

[Esteban X]

What's money?

Money, it could be argued, is the value of goods and services, you produce, trade and consume.

Currency is the physical representation of that value. So you still use money even if the currency is virtual

 

[ChristineM]

Money, it could be argued, is the value of goods and services, you produce, trade and consume.

Currency is the physical representation of that value. So you still use money even if the currency is virtual

The op talks of money

I was responding to the op. Had the op mentioned currency then maybe, just maybe I'd have mentioned it

 

[Valjean]

I understand the sentiments. Physical money can be used anonymously, plastic cannot.

Some of us value our privacy. Some of us see the ability of a government or political entity to pinpoint ethnic or religious communities, or identify members of specific political groups, as problematic.
"Those who forget history....."

 

[EconGuy]

The idea is to start it as some "game" money or insider money. Maybe start some innocuous club like a town beautification club where you need to be a member to have access to that money. I'd start small and slow and see where it goes.

You mean kinda like this?

U.S. town creates local currency to boost coronavirus relief

Residents of Tenino, Washington are eligible for up to $300 in the wooden banknotes each month to spend at local businesses

news.trust.org

This money has some features usual money doesn't have

While US dollars don't "expire" there is still an incentive to spend or invest them.....Inflation. Some would argue that inflation strips away our buying power (bad) and others understand that it creates incentives to spend or invest (good).

Any thoughts? Would you use such money if it were available to you?

I started learning about money when I was asked to help define an economic system in a large open world game. Since then I became fascinated in economics and much to my surprise, game systems and real money function on very similar principles, not the sort of intuitive aspects, but some of the stuff that few people think about.

In China many years ago, there was a game made by a company called Tencent. if I recall correctly it was a hotel simulation. It was extremely popular, however, since most people didn't have credit cards to purchase items in the game (something known as microtransactions) people could buy cards from Tencent at local stores. The cards became so popular that people began to use them in place of government money. I remember reading that at it's peak, the market for these game cards hit $1 billion dollars. Needless to say the Chinese government stepped in at that point and put a stop to it. It is an interesting story and give us insights into what money is and what problems it solves.

At the end of the day creating alternate currencies (of which that are many in the US) has to solve a problem.

In the case of game currency, the problem is that there is something I want that can only be acquired with the game currency.

However, universality (how many people recognize the value of your money) and need (how badly do I want/ need the money in question) and lastly is how confident am I that the money will maintain it's value over a reasonable amount of time.

So what problem does your alternate currency address (if any)?
Why do I need/ want it?
How confident am I that the currency will maintain it's value until I decide to use it?
Why wouldn't I just use the money I get paid in already, why would I want to use more than one currency?

Bus ticket, Theater pass, arcade token are all forms of very narrow currency as their value is very limited beyond the goods/ services offered by holding them.

Creating money that can be used to make a wide array of purchases is much harder, and while, despite what most people think, there is no law that prevents other forms of currency in the US, what is prevented is the use of that currency to settle debts public or private. In other words, I have no legal obligation to accept your currency unless a person enters into a specific contract to accept the currency in return for some product or service, but courts can still order parties in that contract to pay each other dollars if a financial penalty applies.

Hyman Minsky said, creating a currency is easy, getting people to accept it, that's the trick.

That all said, I'll be interested to get some feedback, as I'm not entirely sure I understand the proposal here, so I reserve the right to modify my answer as my understanding increases.

-Cheers

 

[Audie]

What's money?

Not used any for several years. Even a cup of coffee at a café shop is just the swipe of a card away.

I carry some cash to give to beggars.

 

[Heyo]

So what problem does your alternate currency address (if any)?
Why do I need/ want it?

As I said, I'd create it if the government stops giving out banknotes. So the problem would be the lack of a tangible and anonymous currency.

How confident am I that the currency will maintain it's value until I decide to use it?

As it is set up, you can be sure that it will lose its value very fast. Better spend it now.

Why wouldn't I just use the money I get paid in already, why would I want to use more than one currency?

Mistrust of technology, the state and banks; nostalgia. I guess older people would like to have "real" money in their hands. It's also the security of having something substantial that works when the internet stops working.

That all said, I'll be interested to get some feedback, as I'm not entirely sure I understand the proposal here, so I reserve the right to modify my answer as my understanding increases.

-Cheers

There could be other functions by limiting the use further. It being a local currency is practically built in. As it is not exchangeable with government money, only locally produced things will likely be available.

Oh, and since this is practically an extended barter system, it would be tax free.

 

[Shaul]

Sounds like S&H green stamps.

 

[Heyo]

Sounds like S&H green stamps.
View attachment 81472

No, more like Company scrip - Wikipedia only that it is community owned and participation is voluntary.

 

[Estro Felino]

I understand the sentiments. Physical money can be used anonymously, plastic cannot.

Some of us value our privacy. Some of us see the ability of a government or political entity to pinpoint ethnic or religious communities, or identify members of specific political groups, as problematic.
"Those who forget history....."

What criminologists and psychiatrists say about murderers who are in prison: they consider themselves victims of the State who is wicked because it imprisoned them. In their twisted mind they wanted to kill people and be free.
This is the upheaval of the perpetrator-victim cycle: the perpetrator consider themselves the victim.

 

[EconGuy]

So the problem would be the lack of a tangible and anonymous currency

All you need to do to find "anonymous" currency is to look at what India's scam farms are accepting in lieu of dollars. If the government removes paper money, there will still be plenty of alternatives to launder your own purchases.

As it is set up, you can be sure that it will lose its value very fast. Better spend it now

With respect, a currency that loses value quickly comes with substantial risk and I can't see why anyone would accept this currency in lieu of other already existing alternatives.

That said, there is an argument to be made, perhaps, for the existence of physical cash.

I don't know the number I'm about to give as I type this response on my phone sitting on a train on my way into DC, but I'd suspect that the biggest market for US cash are foreign as there are places that don't have a stable currency of their own. It would be interesting to study the affects, good and bad of elimination of physical dollars. Dollars held in foreign institutions could simply be swapped for electronic balances, but there is a LOT of US cash held by drug cartels, the middle east and North Korea (though undoubtedly most of those are counterfeit...lol)

Mistrust of technology, the state and banks; nostalgia. I guess older people would like to have "real" money in their hands. It's also the security of having something substantial that works when the internet stops working

So, mostly based on feelings? While I'm almost certainly more likely to consider how people feel when making decisions, sometimes efficiently and practicality win out.

That said, I really don't think you have much to fear as there will almost certainly be ways to hide transactions in the future, but it will, incur an additional cost in time, effort or money.

As it is not exchangeable with government money,

Just as Walmart won't redeem its own gift cards for cash, there is nothing to prevent a private seller from selling thier gift card. Not sure how you can enforce this, unless you mean the creator won't redeem for cash, just like most gift cards.

locally produced things will likely be available.

This is almost exactly like the link I posted.

 

[Heyo]

All you need to do to find "anonymous" currency is to look at what India's scam farms are accepting in lieu of dollars. If the government removes paper money, there will still be plenty of alternatives to launder your own purchases.

Which are all electronic. Bitcoin etc. are no alternative.

With respect, a currency that loses value quickly comes with substantial risk and I can't see why anyone would accept this currency in lieu of other already existing alternatives.

In most cases where local money was successfully introduced, it was to restart and incentivise the local economy after a breakdown. In those cases the inability to stash and accumulate the money is a feature, not a bug.

That said, there is an argument to be made, perhaps, for the existence of physical cash.

I was once stuck with a card that had been eaten by an ATM, no paper money and an empty tank. Since then I always carry at least some cash.

So, mostly based on feelings? While I'm almost certainly more likely to consider how people feel when making decisions, sometimes efficiently and practicality win out.

Yes, it is a feeling to be dependent of a functioning internet/electronic device and the bank behind them.
Sometimes that feeling comes from experience.

That said, I really don't think you have much to fear as there will almost certainly be ways to hide transactions in the future, but it will, incur an additional cost in time, effort or money.

It will take time and effort for the participants to understand the alternative currency.

Just as Walmart won't redeem its own gift cards for cash, there is nothing to prevent a private seller from selling thier gift card. Not sure how you can enforce this, unless you mean the creator won't redeem for cash, just like most gift cards.

Not only the creator but all members. Remember that you have to be a member to act in the market. (At least in the beginning of the game.)

This is almost exactly like the link I posted.

Yep, that's exactly the same idea. Revive the local economy and strengthen the local sense of community.