problem with free will

[Mike182]

if God has a plan for everyone, and i in some way go against it, will that bodge up his plans?

if he then alters his plans for me, and the people my bodge up affected, then surely he would have seen me about to bodge up, so he would already have alterd them

but if he had seen it, and made preperations for me to bodge up, was it the predestined that i would bodge up - and if so, did i really have the choice?

its just something i randomly thought of - the greatest gift from God is free will, but do we really have it?

C_P

 

[Ori]

My my, thats a lot of bodging .
I don't think pre-destination really comes into it, I don't believe a persons life is set in stone ( though one could argue about certain prophets ).

And God is probably like Batman, he has a plan and a backup plan, and a backup plan for the backup plan and so forth...

 

[joeboonda]

The fool asks more questions than the wise man has time to answer. Lol, just kidding. You do have free will, and yes your free will may cause changes to things, but God is over all and His plan will ultimately play out. I will just let you think about your question, lol. PEACE.

 

[jonny]

I don't believe that the plan for most of us is specific, rather it is a more general plan for everyone. I see the plan as us coming to earth, being tested, exercising free will, and proving ourselves. Since us exercising free will is a major part of the plan, the only thing you can really mess up is the outcome - and you mess that us by making the wrong choices in your life.

I do believe that there are people who were foreordained to take on certain roles while on earth (the prophets, Christ, etc.), and I guess it would be possible for them to screw up God's plan. Hopefully God placed them in circumstances that would allow them to easily accomplish the things that they were foreordained to do...and if not, I hope I wasn't supposed to be one of them!

 

[Neo-Logic]

Problem with free will is that it's predestined. :biglaugh:

 

[Mike182]

I don't believe that the plan for most of us is specific, rather it is a more general plan for everyone. I see the plan as us coming to earth, being tested, exercising free will, and proving ourselves. Since us exercising free will is a major part of the plan, the only thing you can really mess up is the outcome - and you mess that us by making the wrong choices in your life.

I do believe that there are people who were foreordained to take on certain roles while on earth (the prophets, Christ, etc.), and I guess it would be possible for them to screw up God's plan. Hopefully God placed them in circumstances that would allow them to easily accomplish the things that they were foreordained to do...and if not, I hope I wasn't supposed to be one of them!

i like that, thats nice

orichalcum, BATMAN!!!!!!!! I LOVE HIM!!!


now then joeboonda, who's the more foolish, the fool? or the fool who makes the fool look foolish? MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA ................. wait ... a ... second ... ???????

 

[Katzpur]

Problem with free will is that it's predestined. :biglaugh:

I'm sorry, I don't get the joke. Would you mind explaining?

 

[SoyLeche]

I do believe that there are people who were foreordained to take on certain roles while on earth (the prophets, Christ, etc.), and I guess it would be possible for them to screw up God's plan. Hopefully God placed them in circumstances that would allow them to easily accomplish the things that they were foreordained to do...and if not, I hope I wasn't supposed to be one of them!

I don't know about "easily". Most of the prophets are stretched to the limit. God just know's what their limit is, so that it doesn't get crossed. BTW, I think this is true for all of us, not just prophets. Most of us don't work hard enough at it to get to the limit though, IMO.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Well, I see it like this. Correct me if I seem totally off. We have free will. But God already knew the choices we would make from the beginning. Therefore, he included those in his Great plan. If you mess something up, he planned for you to do that. So we make our own choices. God just knew we were going to make them. Mind boggling, isn't it?

Does that seem right?

 

[Katzpur]

Well, I see it like this. Correct me if I seem totally off. We have free will. But God already knew the choices we would make from the beginning. Therefore, he included those in his Great plan. If you mess something up, he planned for you to do that. So we make our own choices. God just knew we were going to make them. Mind boggling, isn't it?

Does that seem right?

Hi, Christiangirl.

Do you believe then, that God has mapped out every detail of your life in advance? I'm not saying He hasn't, but I kind of feel as if His perfect knowledge is more a perfect knowledge of how we will respond to a given set of circumstances. For instance, I know my two dogs pretty well (though not as well as God knows me). If I were to leave a big juicy steak on my kitchen counter and leave the room -- with them in it -- I can almost guarantee that when I got back, the steak would be gone. (The dogs are Collies; they would have no trouble reaching a steak on the counter.)

My own feelings are that God provides us with all of the opportunities we are going to need during our lifetimes to show Him what we're made of. He knows us perfectly, but we still aren't puppets on a string. We are free to chose for ourselves, just as my dogs would be in the situation I described.

Kathryn

 

[Neo-Logic]

I'm sorry, I don't get the joke. Would you mind explaining?

I was saying, talking about free will and predestination as if they were seperate, how do I or anyone else know that what we think is our free will is not predestined in the first place. I mean, God is supposedly all powerful, right? How do we know the true limits to his powers and the effects He can have? The fact is, we don't. It's all speculations. If God is as powerful as he is made out to be, why could he not simply lie to us and make us think we have control over our own thoughts? Oh so God wouldn't lie? Why should human states of natures and rules apply to something as almighty as He?

If God is as powerful and complex enough to be everywhere, know everything, and see all, he sure as hell can fool our ignorant butts and predestine everything - even what we all think is supposedly our free will.

 

[Mister Emu]

My response oh Corrupt one is as follows,

We do have free will, and yes the Lord knows what we are going to do... how are both of these possible?

Because time for the Lord does not exist, there is no past, nor a future. He knows what you are going to do, not because of a fore-ordained conclusion, but because you have already done it... any choice you have, is already chosen... not by anybody or thing else, but by you...

 

[Darkdale]

I do not believe in a purely free will; but I do believe in a constrained will. We are constrained by genetics, experience, environment and disposition, but within these constraints, we have the freedom to change and make choices based on our feelings, instinct and reason.

 

[karmel19]

I see the question of free will like this. The physical world exists as a school in which we are placed in order to learn certain things. Much as you would teach a child arithmetic through use of manipulatives--one button and two buttons = three buttons, we are here to develop certain spiritual qualities through our experience of the physical world. Just as we learn the physical laws which apply to life in the physical world, we must also learn about spiritual laws. There are two ways we can learn spiritual lessons. The first is through obedience to the teachings of the Messengers God sends to us: for example, "Love one another" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The second is through making mistakes--finding out what doesn't work by doing it wrong and taking the consequences. This second way is God's Plan B. We learn about God's will through the Holy Books and we can choose to follow it, just like a child can choose to obey a parent who says "Don't touch the stove." Or we can decide to ignore God's will just as the child might ignore the parent. This hypothetical child then touches the stove, gets burned, and probably has now learned the lesson "Don't touch the stove." But if he or she forgets and touches the stove again, the consequences will occur again, until the child "gets" it. For the most part, the consequence is not a punishment, but simply coming up against the existing reality.

 

[Fluffy]

I don't believe that the plan for most of us is specific, rather it is a more general plan for everyone. I see the plan as us coming to earth, being tested, exercising free will, and proving ourselves. Since us exercising free will is a major part of the plan, the only thing you can really mess up is the outcome - and you mess that us by making the wrong choices in your life.

Ah so if we remove specifics then free will as leg room right? Next time I do a drawing I'll remember that each line is flowing freely onto the page, completely coincidentally coinciding with each pencil stroke, yet coinciding, nonetheless, every time.