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Production of Honey

FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Do you think the process of making and producing honey by bees was
due to programming or due to learning? IOW did the bees learned how to
produce honey and store it as food or the bees were programmed to do so?
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Programmed implies a deliberate intervention by a sentient being. So no, I don't think the process of making and producing honey by bees was due to programming.
Nor was it learned, as in having acquired the ability from some outside source. It's an ability that arose through the evolution of bees.


.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
FearGod said:
Do you think the process of making and producing honey by bees was
due to programming or due to learning? IOW did the bees learned how to
produce honey and store it as food or the bees were programmed to do so?
Click to expand...
many species prepare for seasonal hardship
there is no talk between species.
on the overview.....there seems an Intelligence that forewarns the creature.

otherwise, each individual with every passing season.....
would have to 'weather' the first hardship to 'learn' the signs of the next pending occasion

so how do they 'know'?.....is your question.

must 'bee' that Intelligent Design thing going on....
 
DawudTalut

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
FearGod said:
Do you think the process of making and producing honey by bees was
due to programming or due to learning? IOW did the bees learned how to
produce honey and store it as food or the bees were programmed to do so?
Click to expand...
Peace be on you.
Honey making is by design, it has many aspects, some are:.
1=The way honey-bee sees.

2=The way its eyes and vision are modeled in perfect unison with its outer world of flowers and fruits is, in itself, a grave challenge to the those who deny design.

3=The manner it builds its honeycomb and collects material for it.

4=Just to find material is common to all living animals but to create that material to suit a precise purpose is rare. This is exactly what the honey-bee does.
'Flakes of wax are removed by the enlarged first tarsal joint of the hind leg from four paired glands on the underside of the abdomen and passed forward for construction manipulations by the front legs and mandibles ... The wax is mixed with saliva and kneaded to the proper consistency and degree of plasticity at which it can best be molded.'

5=The cells of which the honeycomb is constructed are all hexagonal with walls which meet at exactly 120 degrees.

6=Bees display fantastic engineering skills and their building gives the impression that they have been equipped with most sophisticated measuring instruments:
'The precision and strength of the newly built comb is remarkable. For example, cell wall thickness is 0.073 ± 0.002 mm, the angle between adjacent cell walls is an exact 120°, and each comb is generally constructed 0.95 cm from its neighbor.'

7=Born out of similar eggs, the offspring are divided into three different professional groups; the queens, the workers and the drones. The queen is capable of laying thousands of eggs in a day.

8=The honey-bees' choice of diet, the way each drop of honey is created from floral nectar, how the saliva must be mixed with it to provide it the viscosity it requires to become honey, is a marvel in itself. With every tiny spot of this mixture on their tongue, they have to stick it out repeatedly to finally mature it. For each drop of honey thus created, they have to make repeated sorties to the field in search of nectar. This goes on day in and day out until they fill the section of the honeycomb which is specifically reserved for this purpose. Somehow they know how to differentiate between ordinary honey and royal jelly which they manufacture entirely for the queen to be fed upon.

9= Royal jelly has the uncanny quality of increasing the age of the queen a hundred times longer than that of ordinary bees. The entire colony of some eighty thousand individuals are the queens' subjects. No better discipline can ever be displayed by human monarchies.

10=Honey-bees and honeycombs are hygienically maintained in great way.

Holy Quran
[ch16:v69-70]
And thy Lord has inspired the bee, saying, 'Make thou houses in the hills and in the trees and in the trellises which they build.

'Then eat of every kind of fruit, and follow the ways of thy Lord that have been made easy for thee.' There comes forth from their bellies a drink of varying hues. Therein is cure for men. Surely, in that is a Sign for a people who reflect.

Reference: Based on https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_5_section_15.html

=======

But along with this example of design, there is phenomenon of guided evolution exists too.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
FearGod said:
Do you think the process of making and producing honey by bees was
due to programming or due to learning? IOW did the bees learned how to
produce honey and store it as food or the bees were programmed to do so?
Click to expand...

Honey looks nice.

But consider this: parasitic wasps trap a caterpillar and keep it warm and alive so that its larvae can slowly eat it inside out.

Was that intelligent design? Maybe for the wasps. Not sure what the caterpillar might think about this design.

I believe that if leaving beings did not need to eat other living beings in order to survive, you would have a point. I don't know, something like solar cells on their back, would work.

Ciao

- viole
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
DawudTalut said:
Peace be on you.
Honey making is by design, it has many aspects, some are:.
1=The way honey-bee sees.

2=The way its eyes and vision are modeled in perfect unison with its outer world of flowers and fruits is, in itself, a grave challenge to the those who deny design.

3=The manner it builds its honeycomb and collects material for it.

4=Just to find material is common to all living animals but to create that material to suit a precise purpose is rare. This is exactly what the honey-bee does.
'Flakes of wax are removed by the enlarged first tarsal joint of the hind leg from four paired glands on the underside of the abdomen and passed forward for construction manipulations by the front legs and mandibles ... The wax is mixed with saliva and kneaded to the proper consistency and degree of plasticity at which it can best be molded.'

5=The cells of which the honeycomb is constructed are all hexagonal with walls which meet at exactly 120 degrees.

6=Bees display fantastic engineering skills and their building gives the impression that they have been equipped with most sophisticated measuring instruments:
'The precision and strength of the newly built comb is remarkable. For example, cell wall thickness is 0.073 ± 0.002 mm, the angle between adjacent cell walls is an exact 120°, and each comb is generally constructed 0.95 cm from its neighbor.'

7=Born out of similar eggs, the offspring are divided into three different professional groups; the queens, the workers and the drones. The queen is capable of laying thousands of eggs in a day.

8=The honey-bees' choice of diet, the way each drop of honey is created from floral nectar, how the saliva must be mixed with it to provide it the viscosity it requires to become honey, is a marvel in itself. With every tiny spot of this mixture on their tongue, they have to stick it out repeatedly to finally mature it. For each drop of honey thus created, they have to make repeated sorties to the field in search of nectar. This goes on day in and day out until they fill the section of the honeycomb which is specifically reserved for this purpose. Somehow they know how to differentiate between ordinary honey and royal jelly which they manufacture entirely for the queen to be fed upon.

9= Royal jelly has the uncanny quality of increasing the age of the queen a hundred times longer than that of ordinary bees. The entire colony of some eighty thousand individuals are the queens' subjects. No better discipline can ever be displayed by human monarchies.

10=Honey-bees and honeycombs are hygienically maintained in great way.

Holy Quran
[ch16:v69-70]
And thy Lord has inspired the bee, saying, 'Make thou houses in the hills and in the trees and in the trellises which they build.

'Then eat of every kind of fruit, and follow the ways of thy Lord that have been made easy for thee.' There comes forth from their bellies a drink of varying hues. Therein is cure for men. Surely, in that is a Sign for a people who reflect.

Reference: Based on https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_5_section_15.html

=======

But along with this example of design, there is phenomenon of guided evolution exists too.
Click to expand...
Forer Effect much?
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
viole said:
Honey looks nice.

But consider this: parasitic wasps trap a caterpillar and keep it warm and alive so that its larvae can slowly eat it inside out.

Was that intelligent design? Maybe for the wasps. Not sure what the caterpillar might think about this design.

I believe that if leaving beings did not need to eat other living beings in order to survive, you would have a point. I don't know, something like solar cells on their back, would work.

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...

I think it's a wise design to reduce the number of caterpillars which can damage the plants.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
Do you think the process of making and producing honey by bees was
due to programming or due to learning? IOW did the bees learned how to
produce honey and store it as food or the bees were programmed to do so?
Click to expand...

Your question sets up a false dicotomy. Try again
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
FearGod said:
Do you think the process of making and producing honey by bees was
due to programming or due to learning? IOW did the bees learned how to
produce honey and store it as food or the bees were programmed to do so?
Click to expand...

Which evolved first? The bees or the flowers?
 
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