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Profiling Religions
- Thread starter Rex
- Start date
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
This is tricky.
On one hand, religious profiling makes me (EDIT: uncomforable) comfortable in this regard as there are so many flavors of Islam as there are varying flavors of Christianity. Not all of Islam represents extremist mindset. I do care as to the civil rights and dignity of innocent people.
On the other hand, when the security of innocent people is also a concern, do we place more value in political correctness or to the pursuit of preserving safety & order?
On one hand, religious profiling makes me (EDIT: uncomforable) comfortable in this regard as there are so many flavors of Islam as there are varying flavors of Christianity. Not all of Islam represents extremist mindset. I do care as to the civil rights and dignity of innocent people.
On the other hand, when the security of innocent people is also a concern, do we place more value in political correctness or to the pursuit of preserving safety & order?
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I say it will frustrate people even more, it will make them feel even more discriminated against, and it will feed the social conditions that are known for contributing towards terrorism.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Well it is extremely important that we do whatever is needed to uphold our Western values: in the Paris massacre case it would be satire and free speech--something that we all cherish and love and have done for a very long time. And if this type of terrorism encourages censorship on these values, then we are approaching a very politically correct, dangerous, and censored society.
In the case of profiling, verily, it is important. If we do not encourage profiling, we will be living in countries with these dangerous extremists that hate us. For those against profiling, do you really want to continue living in segregated societies (as we have done in Europe for a while now) in the name of so-called cultural enrichment?
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
It does not matter. We can expect profiling increases on Muslims after the Paris massacre, at least for a small while, because the attacks where done in the name of Allah--an, in my opinion, imaginary being in the sky. It is not reasonable at all for people to be dying for no reason whatsoever.
In modern, Western societies, the answer to this is always the safety of people.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Why would it frustrate people? If a peaceful Muslim, for example, has done nothing wrong: what is there to fear?
Pretty much.
When humans are confronted with an adversary that elicits fear by jeopardizing their way of life, humans inevitably look for someone or something to blame. In looking for something to blame, they look to place blame on something that they believe they can control. Once that controllable thing can be identified, aggressive steps can be taken to marginalize or eradicate it, thus alleviating fear and restoring a sense of security.
It doesn't take a genius to realize what this leads. It's a lovely little vicious cycle.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Being harassed, inconvenienced, stopped by police without just cause, and being targeted for just their religion. It's kinda like that whole "judging a person by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin" thing, except this is judging them by the accessories they were, the number of times they pray in a day, and so on. And it is to assume guilty until proven innocent, which is the way of the tyrant.
Rights being taken away, being harassed or targeted by vigilantes, being treated like second-class citizens in the country you were born in...
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
And would you say it is reasonable, out of fear of being dealt the "racism" card, that societies accept these terrorist attacks as a way of life--something we should live in fear of and simply accept in the name of an imaginary deity?
I'd rather be afraid of criminals than be afraid of the fascist state.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Pointless deaths in the name of multiculturalism, you say?
So you would rather have people mercilessly and pointlessly killed over conducting simple, and harmless checks that will not get anyone killed?
I appreciate your response.
Also, look at this political compass and note 'Fascism'.
If you knew anything about politics, you would know that purposeful profiling, in the name of national security, would not qualify a country as a 'fascist' state. How dare you use this comparison.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
There are bad people out there. It doesn't matter what creed they follow, they are bad. People kill, steal, rape, manipulate, and do other bad things to people. Profiling assumes everyone of a given category are bad people, and they must be investigated to prove their innocence. And if religious profiling started to happen, why should we assume people won't go even deeper underground? In America, President Grant's campaign against the KKK really didn't do anything except for drive members underground and to states where Grant wasn't looking for them. Personally, I'd feel more safe drawing terrorist closer to the surface for easier detection than forcing them to go even deeper underground. And of course I'd feel much more safe avoiding another Red Scare type of situation.
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Verily, there are lots of bad people out there, of course! But the topic is religion. And, I am afraid to say, you will find far more threat in the name of Islam than from other religions. I understand that this is not what Islam teaches, but it has morphed into these extreme ideologies that pose masses of threat. And these morphed Islamic ideologies have killed hundreds of millions of people. These ideologies stem from Islam, which is why profiling would, by and large, hit Muslims the hardest.
But again, if you have done nothing wrong then there is nothing to fear.
Are we willing to live in progressively censoring societies out of fear of being attacked? I certainly do not and I do not want my children to live in such a society.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Actually, at least in America, Jewish terrorist have caused more terrorist attacks than Muslims. In America, Christians have carried out more attacks than Muslims. Personally, I have more to fear from Biblical literalist who believe it is their right to target people of the GLBT communities.
If you have done nothing wrong, why should people put you under a microscope? If you have done nothing wrong why should the police be able to stop you just because? If you have done nothing wrong why should you be assumed to be a potential threat? If you have done nothing wrong, why should you not be able to just go about living your life without a government who has decided you are a threat on the grounds of "just because" harassing you?
Ultimatum
Classical Liberal
Well I don't know if you've heard, but ISIS have said that the UK and US would be next. Are we going to continue our normal security measures and risk the death of our own countrymen, or are we going to step up in the name of safety and make sure, whether that be profiling or other measures, that we can prevent these attacks.
And, as I have said plenty of times before, if you have done nothing wrong then what is there to fear?
In the name of political correctness and multiculturalism, should we not do as much as we really can to prevent these attacks?
It it incredibly naive to suppose that calling a witch hunt on a group of humans is not going to be abused. History has proven time and again that whenever humans call such hunts, overzealousness and self-righteousness catch those who have done nothing wrong in the crossfire. Further, witch hunts increase hostilities and tensions by reinforcing "us vs them" mentalities.
I'd be careful with that language there, though perhaps you truly do favor starting a third world war.
Ultimately, there is no preventing attacks. Adversity will be with humanity as long as it exists. There will always be something that is opposed to what we value. There is no solving the problem. What you do becomes a question of personal values and virtues. At this point, all I will say is to avoid letting negative, base emotions like fear make you loose sight of your values and virtues. That happens very often in response to things like this, and it is... distressing to watch.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
So? Al-Qaeda said the flag of Islam would be displayed from the White House. This obviously has not happened.
Standing up to these terrorists and showing them we are not afraid is a step in fighting them (another step is reducing social climates that favor terrorism). However, acting out of fear is never good, and doing some of the things we do to innocent Muslims is exactly what groups like ISIS wants to happen. It shows that we are so afraid of them that we are willing to trample the rights of our own citizens who are Muslims. The more oppression these groups face, the more likely individuals are to turn extremist. The LA and Ferguson riots speak volumes on how this oppression can turn people very violent, as well as that we have to look at terrorism, extremism, and other acts of extreme violence as a whole and find trends, patterns, and through these finding the solutions that the military, police, and surveillance have not provided. Afterall, the UK did not achieve peace with the IRA by profiling the Irish. We may never have peace with Muslim extremist, but we can work to reduce the number of Western defectors and to reduce some of the animosity they have towards us. Terrorism has always been with us, and the best anyone of us can do is to show we are not afraid and to not cower in fear and demand the rights of the innocent be suspended. There are many steps needed to reduce terrorism and threats overall. Needlessly harassing innocent Muslims is not one of them.