Pronouns Matter - Understanding the Christian God

[Quintessence]

I think truth is what matters to God. If the truth is that God is the Father, as told in the Bible, it is false to call Him her in that case.

You shall not steal; neither shall you deal falsely, nor lie to one another.
Lev. 19:11

Yahweh, who shall dwell in your sanctuary? Who shall live on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly does what is right, And speaks truth in his heart;
Ps. 15:1

What about the parts of your scripture that refer to your god as female, sex-neutral, or in the plural? Apparently those are a thing, according to the author, but we're culturally most familiar with the male-centric references. Sounds like there might also be some overlooked translation complexities from the original languages too. Lots of stuff to consider. Which parts do you choose to view as "correct" as it were and why?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

In classic symbolism, the male principle is connected to spirit, while the female principle is connected to matter.

Who's "classic symbolism"? Because generally "Classic Symbolism" refers to mythology, typically Greek Mythology, that has inspired a lot of archetypes and models, including the "Mother Earth" example that you give as "obvious" evidence that male is spiritual, female is material.

Ignoring, of course, that Gaia ("Mother Earth") is the divine spirit of the Earth. Ignoring, of course, that the Sun is male (Apollo), the concept of love is female (Aphrodite), strategy, reason, wisdom and intelligence is female (Athena), the sea is male (Poseidon), daytime is female (Hemera), retribution is female (Nemesis), nighttime is female (Nyx), mountains are male (the Ourea)...

The question I would ask is what good does all the gender bending bring, beyond the ego? It appear to be from an evil spirit; male, acting on matter; surgery and drugs. How does the final product differ from feminine, "makeup" for visual appeal? How does it enhance the male spirit?

The question that I would answer this weird sexism with is "Why does it matter to you?"

 

[The Hammer]

Nine, eh? What makes that seem obvious to you, in a potentially infinite universe with anywhere between zero and an infinite number of gods -- and nothing particularly obvious to guide you?

It's a very solid number?

 

[Kenny]

In recent religion-related news, the Church of England has been exploring the pronouns used to refer to the Christian God. Theologian Annie Selak writes:

"When we speak about God, we do so knowing that what we say is incomplete. All images for God reveal something about God. No image of God is literal or reveals everything about God.

...

Pronouns, like “He/Him” in the Christian tradition, can limit one’s understanding of God. It can also make many individuals think that God is male.

It is not wrong to refer to God with male pronouns, but it can have negative social and theological consequences to refer to God with only male pronouns.

Feminist theologian Mary Daly famously stated, “If God is male, then the male is God.” In other words, referring to God only as the male gender has a significant social impact that can exalt one gender at the expense of others.

Referring to God only as male can also limit one’s theological imagination: Using many pronouns for God emphasizes that God is mystery, beyond all human categories."
--- From Why the pronouns used for God matter ​

The entire article is definitely worth a read. Beyond Christianity, the way we can talk about the gods is limited by the confines of whatever languages we learned to speak. Many religious traditions outside of Christianity recognize the limitations of using language to describe the fundamentally indescribable, though it is a particular issue for more abstract or transcendent god-concepts like those found in the Abrahamic religions. And how we talk about the gods matters. Could something as simple as pronouns appended to the gods really play that big of a role in how we approach Them (or should I say Him or Her)?

apparently God had no problem with calling Himself Father.
Jeremiah 3:19
“But I said: ‘How can I put you among the children And give you a pleasant land, A beautiful heritage of the hosts of nations?’ “And I said: ‘You shall call Me, “My Father,” And not turn away from Me.’

 

[1213]

What about the parts of your scripture that refer to your god as female, sex-neutral, or in the plural? ....

Please show the scriptures that tell God is female or sex-neutral?

...Which parts do you choose to view as "correct" as it were and why?

I think the whole Bible is correct.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Having to begat is the best a male god can do.

Where does God "begat"?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Where does God "begat"?

Only males beget, and if Yahweh is male, he must beget as well. Seems logical to me...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Christian God made a woman named Mary pregnant with a son. I think that is enough to refer to God as male because I never heard of a woman being made pregnant by another female.

But you have heard of an individual impregnating another individual that isn't even in the same biological kingdom?

That aside... so I take it you see God's impregnation of Mary more like God having sex with Mary and not like God artificially inseminating Mary?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Only males beget, and if Yahweh is male, he must beget as well. Seems logical to me...

Only males have testicles, and if Yahweh is male, he must have testicles.
Only planets have moons, and if Venus is a planet, it must have a moon.

 

[pearl]

Pronouns Matter - Understanding the Christian God

Have to ask, why the 'Christian' God?

 

[Quintessence]

Please show the scriptures that tell God is female or sex-neutral?

You can read the article for examples.

I'm not Christian or any sort of Abrahamic, so I'm not really in a position to argue your scripture with you. But I do presume the author of the article wasn't lying when they referenced places where the Christian god is represented in other genders or in the plural.

 

[Quintessence]

Pronouns Matter - Understanding the Christian God

Have to ask, why the 'Christian' God?

For context and clarity. The writer of the article I read was specifically talking about the god of the Bible in a Christian context. That said, if you wish to add perspectives from Jewish, Islamic, or even non-monotheist perspective feel free.

 

[stvdv]

In recent religion-related news, the Church of England has been exploring

the pronouns used to refer to the Christian God

"Christian" God is where the problem originates
Limit God to Christian is even blasphemous
Leads to arrogance and belittling others

Useful they start to think about this

 

[Messianic Israelite]

In recent religion-related news, the Church of England has been exploring the pronouns used to refer to the Christian God. Theologian Annie Selak writes:

"When we speak about God, we do so knowing that what we say is incomplete. All images for God reveal something about God. No image of God is literal or reveals everything about God.

...

Pronouns, like “He/Him” in the Christian tradition, can limit one’s understanding of God. It can also make many individuals think that God is male.

It is not wrong to refer to God with male pronouns, but it can have negative social and theological consequences to refer to God with only male pronouns.

Feminist theologian Mary Daly famously stated, “If God is male, then the male is God.” In other words, referring to God only as the male gender has a significant social impact that can exalt one gender at the expense of others.

Referring to God only as male can also limit one’s theological imagination: Using many pronouns for God emphasizes that God is mystery, beyond all human categories."
--- From Why the pronouns used for God matter ​

The entire article is definitely worth a read. Beyond Christianity, the way we can talk about the gods is limited by the confines of whatever languages we learned to speak. Many religious traditions outside of Christianity recognize the limitations of using language to describe the fundamentally indescribable, though it is a particular issue for more abstract or transcendent god-concepts like those found in the Abrahamic religions. And how we talk about the gods matters. Could something as simple as pronouns appended to the gods really play that big of a role in how we approach Them (or should I say Him or Her)?

When Yahshua prayed the model prayer saying, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be your name...what part of that does the Church of England fail to grasp? Yahweh is always referred to as Father, not Mother, He, not She. No wishful thinking can change that. The Church of England has gone astray, but that's what happens when you reject Yahweh's Law, Yahweh's Word and Yahweh's Name. It's a sad case. They too have thrown in with the nonsense of our modern day society, assigning people (edit)*incorrect* pronouns and not facing the truth forthrightly.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Yahweh is always referred to as Father, not Mother, He, not She.

Oh, the irony.

They too have thrown in with the nonsense of our modern day society, assigning people pronouns and not facing the truth forthrightly.

How dare you assign a pronoun to your god.

 

[dybmh]

You can read the article for examples [of God portrayed as a woman].

This is what the article says: "In other parts of Scripture, God is female. The prophet Isaiah compares God to a nursing mother in the Book of Isaiah."

This is demonstrably false. God is not female in the Hebrew bible.

The link leads to Isaiah 49:15 which says:

Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yes, even they may forget, but I will not forget you.
​

Notice, God is being *contrasted* with a mother. "Yes even they [the mother] may forget, but I [God] will not forget you."

I find it rather hard to believe that someone can read this and say that God in the verse is female. Even the idea that God is compared to a nursing mother is misleading. God is contrasted with a nursing mother.

So, no, God, at least in the Hebrew bible is not described as a woman. And yes, the article is misleading, and misinterpretting in spite of the author's credentials as a theologian. I have no problem with the idea that God is beyond gender, or even better that sometimes/frequently God operates in a way which is stereotypically feminine. However, that is not what is happening here.

 

[pearl]

Pronouns, like “He/Him” in the Christian tradition, can limit one’s understanding of God. It can also make many individuals think that God is male.

Especially the anthropomorphism within Hebrew Scripture left little doubt God is male and establishes a male patriarchal system still operative today.
There are prominent feminist theologians within the Church who address this issue only to invite the rath of the hierarchy.

"The bishops' Committee on Doctrine on Wednesday (March 30) said Johnson's 2007 book, "Quest for the Living God: Mapping Frontiers in the Theology of God," could be dangerous for the "broad audience" it seeks to reach."
Catholic bishops censure feminist theologian's book | The Christian Century

 

[syo]

When I talk about Gods, I call them by their names.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Only males have testicles, and if Yahweh is male, he must have testicles.

Not a good visual.

 

[Left Coast]

Not a good visual.

If God is a dude I'd hope he's at least well endowed.