Pronunciation?

[Mysterystorm]

Hey everyone, today I was at a local hare krishna temple and during the kirtan instead of saying krishna it was krishno and instead of rama it was ramo. How come it can be changed like that? I thought pronounciation was very important. How important is pronounciation for any mantra not just the hare krsna mantra?

 

[murugan]

‘A mantra should be obtained only from the Guru and should be chanted according to the science of Matras. A matra is that with which one realises the magnitude of the sound of words. The science of Matras, that is the correct pronunciation of the mantras as regards their notes such as aroha, avaroha, udatta, anudatta, svarit, prachay, etc. is of special importance. If there is an error in that then the deleterious effects that can be caused are described with examples in the teachings of Panini as -

मन्*त्रो हीन: स्*वरतो वर्णतो वा मिथ्*याप्रयुक्तो न तमर्थमाह ।
स वाग्*वज्रो यजमानं हिनस्*ति यथेन्*द्रशत्रु: स्*वरतोऽपराधात्* ।
​

The meaning: The mantra without proper pronunciation of vowels (svar) and consonants (varna), that is the utterance of a mantra in a faulty manner makes it faulty and does not convey the intended meaning. Instead it gets converted into a verbal thunderbolt and harms the one chanting it, as had occurred in the case of the word Indrashatru with faulty pronunciation of the vowels.
The compound word Indrashatru could have two meanings, one being “Indra’s enemy” (the slayer of Lord Indra) from Tatpurush Samas and “the one whose enemy is Lord Indra” (the one who will be slain by Lord Indra) from Bahuvrihi Samas. Since the first meaning was intended for Tvashta he had to utter the note of the last letter of the entire word in a lofty tone. He however, uttered the last letter of the first word in the Samas in a lofty tone. Consequently, instead of a son being born to slay Lord Indra, a son, Vrutra who would be killed by Lord Indra was born.

 

[Madhuri]

Pronouncing correctly is supposed to have great benefit and power (ie/ I always heard it say that Krisna is (one with) his name)- but mispronouncing does not have any negative repercussions.

I know that some Indians, possibly Bengalis, pronounce those names with the 'o' sound at the end and some Westerners copy this. I perosnally don't think it's a big deal if that is a wrong pronunciation- the most important aspect of worship is the devotion to God, not the accuracy or systems of worship. It's what's in our heart that counts.

 

[Mysterystorm]

I do agree with you Madhuri and personally I feel as long as there is true devotion it shouldn't matter. I have heard/read many people simply say if you pronounce it wrong you just don't benefit from it. But Murugan your saying a mispronounced mantra causes damage...makes me wonder which is correct. Btw I thought many mantras can be recited without Guru initation? Like Hare krsna mantra, gayatri mantra, om namo shivay etc..

 

[Madhuri]

In Gaudiya Vaishnavism at least it is heavily emphasised that only guru can provide you with the gayatri mantra.
But there are many mantras that can be learned without guru initiation.

 

[Milind2469]

Hey everyone, today I was at a local hare krishna temple and during the kirtan instead of saying krishna it was krishno and instead of rama it was ramo. How come it can be changed like that? I thought pronounciation was very important. How important is pronounciation for any mantra not just the hare krsna mantra?

Rama is also not correct.
The correct pronunciation is RAH-MM
Also it should be Krushna and not Krishna.

 

[Breathe]

Hey everyone, today I was at a local hare krishna temple and during the kirtan instead of saying krishna it was krishno and instead of rama it was ramo

Perhaps it's a dialectal thing?

Sounds like Bengali.

Pronouncing correctly is supposed to have great benefit and power (ie/ I always heard it say that Krisna is (one with) his name)- but mispronouncing does not have any negative repercussions.

I know that some Indians, possibly Bengalis, pronounce those names with the 'o' sound at the end and some Westerners copy this.

Yeah, this.

And also for the second part, as well. Don't believe in negative effects from mispronunciations.
As usual, I agree with Madhuri.

Rama is also not correct.
The correct pronunciation is RAH-MM
Also it should be Krushna and not Krishna.

But, Milind ji, is that modern pronunciation or the Sanskrit? I've always seen final "short a"-s on names when they're from Sanskrit, e.g., Rāma, etc, and when it was omitted it was marked with the virama [्], right? For example, राम Rāma in Sanskrit, Rām in Hindi/Urdu/etc, but हनुमान् for Hanuman without a final inherent vowel because of the virama, or am I misunderstanding something?

 

[Milind2469]

But, Milind ji, is that modern pronunciation or the Sanskrit? I've always seen final "short a"-s on names when they're from Sanskrit, e.g., Rāma, etc, and when it was omitted it was marked with the virama [्], right? For example, राम Rāma in Sanskrit, Rām in Hindi/Urdu/etc, but हनुमान् for Hanuman without a final inherent vowel because of the virama, or am I misunderstanding something?

No it has been the right pronunciation since his time.
The problem is when you write in English.
Ram would rhime with ham
Rama misleads to Rah-Mah
Rahm or Raam would be the better option while writing.
And the ending 'M' is full not half like visarga.
Also the 'man' at the end of Hanuman should not like norma "man" in english but like maan or mahn.

 

[Mysterystorm]

Thanks for the great answers! But im still not sure what the exact answer is? Seems like the votes are divided so I'm guessing just try your best pronouncing it right but if your wrong its not the end of the world?

 

[chinu]

Thanks for the great answers! But im still not sure what the exact answer is? Seems like the votes are divided so I'm guessing just try your best pronouncing it right but if your wrong its not the end of the world?

Dear mysterystorm, I think the people singing like this might be Hungry

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Mysterystorm]

Dear mysterystorm, I think the people singing like this might be Hungry

_/\_
Chinu

Lol yeah that or really sleepy

 

[Vinayaka]

Thanks for the great answers! But im still not sure what the exact answer is? Seems like the votes are divided so I'm guessing just try your best pronouncing it right but if your wrong its not the end of the world?

It helps to hear a few native speakers with languages, but yes there is debate, and there are localised dialects. So never take one person's answer as being the correct one. The s and sh is a common one for debate, in Siva or Shiva. Another problem is that the universal transliteration symbols for English are not lined up totally with American English. The e, for example is transliterated as log a as in straight, which causes the American mispronunciation of Ganesha to Ga nesh a with the middle vowel rhyming with desk, when correctly it is ay, or Ganaysha. There are also many sounds from various languages that simply fo not exist in other languages. An example is that in some languages, the number of vowels is doubled simply by extending the amount of time it is held, so in the transliteration of this for example, there would be hat as well as haat. Of course our untrained American ears would never hear the difference.

 

[Satsangi]

Pronouncing correctly is supposed to have great benefit and power (ie/ I always heard it say that Krisna is (one with) his name)- but mispronouncing does not have any negative repercussions.

I know that some Indians, possibly Bengalis, pronounce those names with the 'o' sound at the end and some Westerners copy this. I perosnally don't think it's a big deal if that is a wrong pronunciation- the most important aspect of worship is the devotion to God, not the accuracy or systems of worship. It's what's in our heart that counts.

I do agree with above, but would like to add that the pronounciations of Vedic Mantras should be correct. The Vedas were passed on orally and pronounciation was of utmost importance; pronounciation is the CORE of the Vedas. There is a vast difference between the energy created by correctly pronounced Mantra and incorrectly pronounced Mantra. But in the end, the God is the giver of all fruits and He can reward devotion even without any Mantras.

Regards,

 

[Amala]

Hey everyone, today I was at a local hare krishna temple and during the kirtan instead of saying krishna it was krishno and instead of rama it was ramo. How come it can be changed like that? I thought pronounciation was very important. How important is pronounciation for any mantra not just the hare krsna mantra?

Namaste Mysterystorm,

I can answer this. There are rules in Sanskrit called Sandhi rules that determine a word's pronunciation based on its environment. If there were a soft consonant following krsna or rama, they would end in an 'o' sound. The 'h' sound and the 'r' sound are both considered soft. So when 'hare' or 'rama' follows either krsna or rama, the ending vowel would sound like 'o'.

There are mantras (and greetings) in which nama is repeated. Since 'n' is also a soft consonant, we end in an 'o' sound in the first instance, getting namo nama.



Amala

 

[Mysterystorm]

So are you saying Hare Krsna or Hare Rama is not correct? Not positive if I understand the soft consonant thing might have to read about Sandhi rules. Thank you though

 

[Amala]

So are you saying Hare Krsna or Hare Rama is not correct? Not positive if I understand the soft consonant thing might have to read about Sandhi rules. Thank you though

Namaste,

No. It doesn't apply to every ending. The actual ending of Krishna and Rama is something called a visarga. It is a little aspiration at the end of the word followed by an echo of the preceding vowel sound. So Krishna would sound more like Krishna-huh. The presence of that visarga is what dictates the change. The e sound does not change in that environment.

You are quite welcome. I'm always happy to share what I can with regard to Sanskrit.

Amala

 

[Mysterystorm]

Actually reading about it now, thank you.