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Proof of Islam?
- Thread starter Wolf Spirit
- Start date
Haha, I think that is probably best overall for the health and sense of overall well-being.It sure sounds like you are having lots of fun.I don't know how you handle all that religious bantering, I am more into light conversation these days.
Recently, I left The Opinion Forum to the Christian and Jew who like to argue and the one atheist who disagrees with both of them.
I'm not entirely sure why I deal with all sorts of people, all sorts of situations, but I do so I think mainly because I use them and these interactions to gain a lot, because these various mouths yammering on are used by me as Oracular devices, as "Mouths / Manifestations of God" in the sense that God is in my view speaking through their words, good or evil, which then lead me to various things or say things that are special without them realizing it even as they hate. Someone who gains nothing is just wasting time arguing, but for me its not a waste of time, because of the way I'm looking at what they produce and using it:
https://www.nku.edu/~gartigw/teaching_files/Donaldson, Bess Allen (1937) - Koran as Magic.pdf
https://www.nku.edu/~gartigw/teaching_files/Donaldson, Bess Allen (1937) - Koran as Magic.pdf
ttps://www.nku.edu/~gartigw/teaching_files/Donaldson,%20Bess%20Allen%20(1937)%20-%20Koran%20as%20Magic.pdf
I wonder what that says?
Jinn - Wikipedia
Jinn - Wikipedia
ttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn#In_witchcraft_and_magical_literature
The Seven Jinn Kings
The Seven Jinn Kings
ttps://jinn.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seven_Jinn_Kings
The Seven Jinn Kings
The Seven Jinn Kings
ttps://genies.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seven_Jinn_Kings
Al-Mudhib
Al-Mudhib
ttps://jinn.fandom.com/wiki/Al-Mudhib
2:102
And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic and that which was revealed to the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. Nor did they (the two angels) teach it to anyone till they had said: We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah). And from these two (angles) people learn that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they injure thereby no-one save by Allah's bringing such about. And they learn that which harmeth them and profiteth them not. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no (happy) portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew.
57:22
No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own souls, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah:
4:78
Wherever you are, death will overtake you, though you are in lofty towers, and if a benefit comes to them, they say: This is from Allah; and if a misfortune / evil befalls them, they say: This is from yourself. Say: All is from Allah, but what is the matter with these people that they do not make approach to understanding what is told (them)?
Allah is The "Black Magic", directly taking credit for any successful magical operation or malicious prayer occuring or not.
The other "magic" besides Allah described in the Qur'an, is described as ineffective, harmless, false. The snakes of the Egyptian sorcerors are described as flimsy fake visual tricks, unlike the Biblical description
The Jinn are also said to have no power or knowledge or magical powers and did not even know when Solomon was dead.
The omens and oracles derived from games of chance are also made out to be false and misleading.
What the Qur'an promotes is using reason and making things good or have good meanings and used as good reminders.
Allah takes credit for all magic, miracles, events, experiences in every detail, even the flight of birds, which was used throughout the ancient world as an oracular tool or for divination of omens.
So, Allah is Magic, The Magic, and there is no system, power, or magic or mechanisms effective except Allah and the natural sciences, the rest is called "superstition" and is to be thrown out and purified.
Regardless, Magic was used a lot in the Late Antiquity world of Islam and modern western Occultism adopted a great deal of their magical practices and thinking from documents moving through and from the Islamic world.
Live "Divi-nation" Magic Demon-stration!
Live "Divi-nation" Magic Demon-stration!
ttps://www.religiousforums.com/threads/live-divi-nation-magic-demon-stration.233324/
The Qur'an also says Iblis has no power over anyone nor can make them do anything nor can answer their prayers, if anything occurs it is Allah doing it.
If someone says "Oh Iblis" or "Oh Satan" or "Oh Jinn" inside their heart, none of these can hear them just as if one says "Oh Jesus" inside, these are unable to hear or do anything.
So it is Allah who hears and answers, even if they say after their prayer is answered by Allah "thank you Jesus" or "Praise Iblis!" who they falsely give credit to, when it is Allah, not the things they call upon, who has power and alone brings about all experiences good or evil.
As far as I'm aware and as demonstrated by my quote selections and comments regarding other statements in the Qur'an, the "power" being tapped by such people is just Allah again, and the evil they do is also by Allah, an evil they can not accomplish except by Allah "bringing it about", and this is only increasing them in delusions and sins, whereby they will be destroyed for it either in this life and the next or in the next life.
They are not able to have their magical operations succeed in the least, nor is there a mechanism available, except that Allah is being requested and performing, even under the name Satan.
Other than that, Real Jinn can be talked to, can seep into rooms and steal things physically, doing things that humans can do except their plasma (ionized gas) bodies differ from ours so can make for better spies and are not easy to detect because people imagine wrong things and don't notice the fine mist up by the ceiling or near the trash in the corner.
There are people who, befriending Jinn life forms through physical contact and directly speaking to them (they are not psychic, they can't read minds, they need audible talk in person and have a limited physical range, they whisper physically, they are not magical, they can even be video taped and seen with the naked eye, but most people are liars and have never had real dealings except with imaginary delusions Allah gives them) make alliances where the jinn helps the human and the human helps the jinn.
Some of these jinn are part of elitist organizations and factions which try to contact and influence people in power or with certain knowledge or with certain key positions which can influence things in a major way.
Jinns (normal life spans) and Iblis the long living are not immortal or magical beings, as the only magic is Allah.
Most people performing spells and magic have no contact with any real creatures, and their magic achievements whether delusional or real are each brought about by Allah even if they are calling Allah by other names or imagining foolish things like a goat or a bull or a snake.
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I think she might not only because of associating the word with what is usually connected to it. No one would deny or want to deny (except Atheists and Non-Theists) being a Muslim.
Muslim means "One who (mu) Surrenders (Islam).
A deeper opening of the term using the root "slm" may be elaborated as such:
Experiencing Peace/Healing/Relief through Surrender/Total Acknowledging/Acceptance (of The Truth / The Reality / Al-Haqq which is Allah and that Allah Controls Everything and Everything is the Will of Allah which can not be defied, and expressing this Surrender through worshipping Allah Only who is the Only).
So, with that definition in mind, one should ask themselves, are they a Muslim?
Even many Muslims are just nominal Muslims by name or culture, who do not know Allah or understand or believe in Allah's Reality, Total Power and Control Over Every Experience which God Generates in Every Detail and Nuance.
Many have the model if a spacially limited "remote" God "somewhere over there" not "here, now" "encompassing all vision, encompassed by no vision, surrounding all that they do, closer than your jugular vein" imminent, pervading, directly behind this "stuff" we call experience, upholding all we see "none upholds (the bird) except Allah".
That is why, most, even if they say they believe in God, they don't know what they are saying or they believe in a different and inferior model and conception, their God is not "The Real" but just their poor understanding given to them by Allah "they are made for hell, with ears, eyes, hearts (understanding organ today called "mind") which do not function properly" and like fish are made for the sea and not meant to know the sky or the stars, these are made to inhabit hell as their proper environment that God has created for them and the future state they are growing towards.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I am a Bahai.
There are many similarities between Islam and the Baha'i Faith but they are not exactly the same.
The way we practice the five pillars is different, and there are new social teachings and laws.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did return to that forum, on my intuition but against my better judgment, but I believe there is a reason so I will stay till I again realize it is time to leave.
You and me both... Ditto on that.
To anyone who might have any information on this, I'd like to know all the demonological type information any of you may have, whether its from China, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Western Occultism, Judaism, Shia Islam, Sunni, Sufi, Zoroastrianism, whatever.
I asked Link in his "Qur'an is white magic" thread:
"Can you list for me the names of the demons and evil powers and the sources of these names and the good powers or spirits if there are any, the names of the trees, the names of everything pertaining to this and the cosmology please? The whole outline and hierarchies and correspondences and symbology and symbolic associations and the sources for those as well as the associations you've made and discovered for each demon so a kind of profile with the name, all information, all symbols or correspondences, numbers, planets, constellations and whatever in as much detail as possible and all of them. I'd like all of them please, here or to my email at [email protected] please! "
Quran is a book of white magic.
ttps://www.religiousforums.com/threads/quran-is-a-book-of-white-magic.234347/#post-6692935
I asked Link in his "Qur'an is white magic" thread:
"Can you list for me the names of the demons and evil powers and the sources of these names and the good powers or spirits if there are any, the names of the trees, the names of everything pertaining to this and the cosmology please? The whole outline and hierarchies and correspondences and symbology and symbolic associations and the sources for those as well as the associations you've made and discovered for each demon so a kind of profile with the name, all information, all symbols or correspondences, numbers, planets, constellations and whatever in as much detail as possible and all of them. I'd like all of them please, here or to my email at [email protected] please! "
Quran is a book of white magic.
ttps://www.religiousforums.com/threads/quran-is-a-book-of-white-magic.234347/#post-6692935
Which you will hopefully get to enumerating for me if you find the time. As for my definition of Islam and Muslim above, can you tell me if you would want to be a Muslim by that definition or consider yourself what I defined it as? If not, why not or what would you object to? Do you think Baha'Ullah was a Muslim and was matched up to that definition I gave?
It is. That is why we requested the Lord to appear in nine avataras. One can't have enough of them.
I'm wondering if you would be able to help me or find me a member on here who can, someone who can list to me here or to my email at [email protected] a complete enumeration and listing of all the Hindu "demons" or Asura, Rakshasa, Bhooth, Evil Entities, Titans, Daityas, whatever at all, their names in both English transliteration, sanskrit as well as translation, their quality, the stories or text sources they appear in first or centrally. The Devas and their epithets and forms can be mentioned as well, but just like I was looking for the names above I thought there may be a resource in some language or Hindi or Sanskrit which may have these thoroughly listed out and described which I'd love access to and I've been looking for for a while.
I've asked people for years, also people from some new organization called Aaiyyanists.
They mention weird and obscure ones like Lavalian Gatisaman
Chudarmanian Adhavena
Vinayaka Dantin
Rakhshasi Lankini
Pishacha MuyaLakan
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I will surely try.
I do not know what definition you are referring to. Can you post me that definition in as few words as possible?
Duncan
Member
You shoud ask yourself why there are those similarities. The cult you are following is a man made belief, it has nothing to do with God, or Islam. It was created for political reason, like the British did with the Ahmadiah in India, in the Bahai case it was the Russian.
The Bab arose at a time when hostilities between Iran and Russia were at their peak. During these wars Iran suffered extensive damage and there was bloodshed, unhappiness and despair everywhere. At this time the belief in the coming of the 'Promised Messiah' or the 'Mahdi' assumed great proportions. People in Iran were anxiously waiting for the reappearance of the Mahdi. (Iranians generally believe that Imam Mahdi has already been born, and would reappear by the will and permission of Allah to fill the earth with justice and equity as it will be filled with injustice and oppression). At such an opportune moment, Bab with the help of the Russian Ambassador, Kiniyaz Dolgorouki, claimed himself to be the Bab (Gate) of Imam Mahdi (Refer to A Traveler's Narrative, Abbas Effendi Page 4).
Then on reaching Kerbala in May 1844, under the influence of Isa Lankarani, again a Russian agent, the Bab claimed himself to be Imam Mahdi himself. (Here again you can refer to A Traveler's Narrative Page 14).
Due to the strong and deep-rooted enmity between Iran and Russia, the Russians were at the forefront in promoting Babism and Bahaism.
Within a short period of 5 months, Zarrin Taj Qurratul Ayn, Mulla Mohammed Ali Barfarosh, and 16 others joined the Bab. These 18 followers are also known as the 'Huruf-e-Hayy' or 'the Letters of the Living'. Incidentally, Bahaullah who later claimed to be the successor of the Bab, was not among these 18.
The heretical teachings of the Bab spread far and wide and created a lot of discord among the people. Families were broken, relationships severed, and feelings of enmity and mistrust grew among the religious scholars. This was completely contrary the teachings of Islam. Hence a meeting of religious scholars was convened and the Bab called for questioning. It was there that the Bab uttered: "O scholars! Whatever you see in Quran, you will find in Bayan (a book authored by the Bab, which he claims to be divinely inspired). Whatever you will not find in Quran, look for it in Bayan. My Bayan has abrogated Quran and Islam! Obey me before the sword comes out of the sheath."
The moderator of the assembly had a very hard time controlling the frenzied scholars. He then asked the Bab to pen down his sayings as a reference as this would serve as the completion of proof for all. The Bab wrote some sentences in the form of supplications. The scholars read his statements, and pointed out some basic grammatical mistakes thus proving that he did not even have any elementary knowledge of Arabic. However, instead of admitting his mistakes, the Bab with his usual cheek declared, "I have not learnt from any teacher (another lie), Whatever I write is revelation..." (Refer to Nasikhut Tawareekh)
Upon the migration of the Russian ambassador, to create strife in Iran, Bab wrote the following sentences in Bayan which I am sure you are familiar with:
"O my followers! Surely Allah has made fighting obligatory for you. You must conquer the cities and the people for Babism and don't be at peace with those who reject Babism." (Al Bayan, Arabic Edition, chapter 1)
"Allah has made obligatory on every Babi king that he should not let a single person remain alive in his kingdom who does not accept Babism. (Al Bayan, Arabic Edition, chapter 1)
"Loot and plunder the properties of those who do not accept Babism." (Al Bayan, Arabic Edition, chapter 1)
"Erase all the books from the face of the earth except those written about Babism" (Al Bayan, Arabic Edition, Chapter 1)
"O enemies of Bab! Even if you bathe 1,000 times, you will never become clean", (Al Bayan, Persian Edition chapter 2 )
"If a Babi acquires a thing from a non-Babi, then by the transfer of the thing, it becomes lawful for him." (Al Bayan, chapter 4).
These baseless utterances resulted in chaos and total upheaval in Iran. Babis, the followers of Bab, who advocated total submission to the will and commands of the Bab, set forth to actualize his commandments. Chaos and anarchy spread all around. The Babis began to loot and plunder the adjoining villages and took away whatever they could lay their hands upon. If they met with any resistance, they burnt the entire village. For details, you can refer to the book of 'Materials for the study of Babism' it`s by Professor E. G. Browne and you can go stright to page 241.
The book notes that in one such village the Babis saw that some non-Babis had sought protection. Mulla Husain and some other Babis arrived at the village and killed 130 people in a single night.
The murderous Babis set out to plunder, and annihilate Muslims. No one was spared. Children were killed, elders massacred, the pregnant women had their stomachs ripped and other women defiled. Merely killing the people did not satiate the devilish desires of the Babis. They also looted their belongings and set their houses afire. (This can be found in Nuktatul Qaaf, Page 161. Also Kashfuz Zulumah, Page 125).
These are some of the pieces of the dark history, and there is more into it which the Bahais wish to hide and keep away from their followers.
In my meetings with Bahais friend and his friends over the years, I have not met a single person who was aware of these facts, and you will also deny them. Truly it is a farce for a religion, which such a violent background to actually propagate world peace. It is as if Hitler makes a claim to the Nobel Peace Prize in today's time. It makes the Bahais uncomfortable for they have no reply.
A Bahai historian writes about the 'mistakes' of these villages that, "Initially these villages believed in Bab, but later they denied him, and so they had to endure the punishment" ( It is in Nuktatul Qaaf, Page 163)
And seriously many similar incidents show that the Bahais are actually the proponents of world disorder. I cannot see anyone carrying out such satanic acts and guilty of such heinous crimes as being the apostles of world peace.
On top of that, the Bab, meanwhile, made a lot of claims. Firstly he claimed to be the Bab (Gate) of Imam Mahdi. Then he claimed that he was the Promised Mahdi himself. Then he further claimed that he was a new prophet, and believe it or not, as written by him in 'Lauhe Haikal-ud-Deen' finally he claimed to be God Almighty himself ( which I demonstrate in my previous post and which you denied). With each new claim, fresh disputes and further discord were created among the people.
The government of the Shah then tightened the noose around the neck of the Bab and decided to execute him. The Shah asked the Crown Prince, Nasir ad-Din, who was in Tabriz to bring the Bab from the prison to a court of ulema for trial. The Bab after some evasion confessed to being the author of the books written about him, and being the introducer of a new religion. When the ulema asked what deficiency he found in the Islamic faith, the apostate had nothing to say. The ulema unanimously agreed that he was an unbeliever, and an apostate and the government decided to execute him for apostasy.
The religions of Bab and Bahaullah were Russian inventions, and hence the first 'Mashriqul Azkar' (place of worship) of the Bahais was set up in the Ahiqabad province of Russia with the aid of the Russians. (You can find that in Bahjatus Sudoor, page 271 by Mirza Haider Ali Isfahani).
But after the Russian revolution, the Bolsheviks did not support them and they had to turn to Israel for help. They helped Israel in its rifts with Iran, Turkey, and also Palestine. In this way, Abdul Baha (Abbas Effendi) was bestowed the title of 'Sir' by the British government. (It is in Bahaullah and the New Era by an American Bahai Dr. Esselmont).
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You should ask yourself why there are those similarities. If you were not so mired in your beliefs and if you had any logical abilities you would realize that the Baha'i Faith was revealed by the same God that revealed Islam and all the other religions so that is why these similarities exist.
But Muslims are no different from Jews or Christians, they believe they have the one true religion, the best and the last. It is sad really, because it is so illogical that God would allow such a thing.
The other religions have good teachings but the Baha'i Faith is the only religion that makes any logical sense since we say all the religions are true but each one was only applicable for the age in which it was revealed.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
@DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan There is no listing but Wikipedia will help: Asura - Wikipedia, Rakshasa - Wikipedia.
Kindly note that in Vedas, both Gods and demons are mentioned as Asuras because Asuras simply meant a person of great power to them.
Kindly note that in Vedas, both Gods and demons are mentioned as Asuras because Asuras simply meant a person of great power to them.
Yes, for me it has positive connotations!
I will surely try.
I do not know what definition you are referring to. Can you post me that definition in as few words as possible?
I will give you that and the whole post also:
Short:
Muslim = One who performs "Surrender to God" (Islam).
Short 2: One who finds peace/relief through acknowledging their state of surrender to God.
Medium:
"
Muslim means "One who (mu) Surrenders (Islam).
A deeper opening of the term using the root "slm" may be elaborated as such:
Experiencing Peace/Healing/Relief through Surrender/Total Acknowledging/Acceptance (of The Truth / The Reality / Al-Haqq which is Allah and that Allah Controls Everything and Everything is the Will of Allah which can not be defied, and expressing this Surrender through worshipping Allah Only who is the Only).
So, with that definition in mind, one should ask themselves, are they a Muslim? "
Long:
"I think she might not only because of associating the word with what is usually connected to it. No one would deny or want to deny (except Atheists and Non-Theists) being a Muslim.
Muslim means "One who (mu) Surrenders (Islam).
A deeper opening of the term using the root "slm" may be elaborated as such:
Experiencing Peace/Healing/Relief through Surrender/Total Acknowledging/Acceptance (of The Truth / The Reality / Al-Haqq which is Allah and that Allah Controls Everything and Everything is the Will of Allah which can not be defied, and expressing this Surrender through worshipping Allah Only who is the Only).
So, with that definition in mind, one should ask themselves, are they a Muslim?
Even many Muslims are just nominal Muslims by name or culture, who do not know Allah or understand or believe in Allah's Reality, Total Power and Control Over Every Experience which God Generates in Every Detail and Nuance.
Many have the model if a spacially limited "remote" God "somewhere over there" not "here, now" "encompassing all vision, encompassed by no vision, surrounding all that they do, closer than your jugular vein" imminent, pervading, directly behind this "stuff" we call experience, upholding all we see "none upholds (the bird) except Allah".
That is why, most, even if they say they believe in God, they don't know what they are saying or they believe in a different and inferior model and conception, their God is not "The Real" but just their poor understanding given to them by Allah "they are made for hell, with ears, eyes, hearts (understanding organ today called "mind") which do not function properly" and like fish are made for the sea and not meant to know the sky or the stars, these are made to inhabit hell as their proper environment that God has created for them and the future state they are growing towards. "
What will establish a New Age? Like, its been a while now since the Bahai writings, when will the New Era be? Are there any writings concerning the next messenger to arrive? The super social media savvy one?
I call my dad Bab pronounced Bob and I'm called variations of "Babe" by many.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/3d/86/5a3d867862241644cddfea17fa61c293.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/J0FCYJ/th...z-in-1850-the-bb-birth-name-sayyed-J0FCYJ.jpg
Me and my Dad on our visit to Iran.
So are you saying the Bab was a Bab Guy?
They say similar stuff about Muhammed, I was reading a lot of Youtube comments saying such things about Muhammed, and quotes from Hadiths they (Evangelicals) like to show, the difference being that the records of the Bab are more close in time.
I saw pictures of Baha'Ullah, do you think he said his prayers in the Shia fashion?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Okay, you asked: As for my definition of Islam and Muslim above, can you tell me if you would want to be a Muslim by that definition or consider yourself what I defined it as? If not, why not or what would you object to? Do you think Baha'Ullah was a Muslim and was matched up to that definition I gave?
Yes, by those definitions I would very much like to be a Muslim if I was not already a Baha'i.
You see, in the Baha'i Faith we are also enjoined to Surrender to God and find peace in doing so.
For example:
“O Shaykh, O thou who hast surrendered thy will to God! By self-surrender and perpetual union with God is meant that men should merge their will wholly in the Will of God, and regard their desires as utter nothingness beside His Purpose. Whatsoever the Creator commandeth His creatures to observe, the same must they diligently, and with the utmost joy and eagerness, arise and fulfil. They should in no wise allow their fancy to obscure their judgment, neither should they regard their own imaginings as the voice of the Eternal. In the Prayer of Fasting We have revealed: “Should Thy Will decree that out of Thy mouth these words proceed and be addressed unto them, ‘Observe, for My Beauty’s sake, the fast, O people, and set no limit to its duration,’ I swear by the majesty of Thy glory, that every one of them will faithfully observe it, will abstain from whatsoever will violate Thy law, and will continue to do so until they yield up their souls unto Thee.” In this consisteth the complete surrender of one’s will to the Will of God. Meditate on this, that thou mayest drink in the waters of everlasting life which flow through the words of the Lord of all mankind, and mayest testify that the one true God hath ever been immeasurably exalted above His creatures. He, verily, is the Incomparable, the Ever-Abiding, the Omniscient, the All-Wise. The station of absolute self-surrender transcendeth, and will ever remain exalted above, every other station.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 337-338
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The New Era began with the Coming of the Bab in 1844. The following book is an excellent introduction to the Baha'i Faith and it answers some of the other questions you asked:
Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era
The Baha'is and other like-minded individuals will usher in the New Age, and together we will build what we refer to as the New World Order and the Kingdom of God on earth.
“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.
Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7
Baha'u'llah wrote that the next Messenger will not appear until the full expiration of 1000 years so that cannot happen before 2852 AD. Baha'is believe that there will be many more Messengers of God sent during this religious cycle, called the Cycle of Fulfillment, which will last for 500,000 years, but all the Messengers in this religious Cycle will be under the shadow of Baha'u'llah.