Proof of Pre-Existence

[Brian2]

Jesus Christ is not a DEITY!!!

Jesus is not a deity, which is what the JWs say He is, but as the Son of God with the same nature as His Father, He is divine, of God.

 

[Brian2]

Brian2… WHAT IS the nature of God????

One definition of "nature" I found is "the basic or inherent features, character, or qualities of something."
So apply this to God.

Jesus Christ HAS NOT been ‘the same yesterday and today and forever’ as a complete statement.

Jesus Christ, in Heaven, said of himself, ‘I was dead, BUT NOW I am alive eternally’.

Jesus Christ was only Jesus, before he was ANOINTED to BECOME ‘Christ’.

Jesus was a baby, before he became an adult.

Jesus (And even as Jesus Christ) is a mortal human being. He was MADE immortal after GOD: the Father, raised him up from the dead.

Jesus was not ‘Ruler over creation’ until GOD, the Father, made him so.

Jesus was the FORETOLD Messiah… meaning he did not yet EXIST except in PROPHESY which the Father (YHWH, Almighty God) ordained.

How do you say by your ideology, that Jesus IS THE SAME yesterday as today as forevermore,

It is the Bible that tells us about Jesus being the same, yesterday, today and forever.
This means, for both of us, that all those things that you listed as what you see as changes to the Logos, have not really altered "the basic or inherent features, character, or qualities" of Jesus, the Logos.

Brian2, his can he be EXACTLY LIKE HIS FATHER if he is a mortal man… Are you saying that God, the Father is a mortal man ‘like his son’?

No, and it is only His body that was mortal, not His soul.

Brian2, every time you make an exception, you degrade your claim that the Father is exactly the same as the Son.. or the Son is exactly like the Father…

Did the Father GRANT Jesus to have life in himself…

Yes and this does not change the nature of the Son.

Did the Son grant the Father to sit on his (the Son) throne.

No and that has nothing to do with the nature of Jesus.

Brian2, is the Father equal to the Son?

‘To say Jesus is God is to bring the earth into Heaven. To say that God is man is to bring Heaven down to earth’

The Father and Son have the same nature.
The Father and Son are related strangely enough and so have the same nature.
The Son was not created (John 1:3 etc) and so the Son has always been and has always had the same nature as His Father.
The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son.

 

[Brian2]

So anyone who is Spirit and Body, aka, a Person (Greek/Latin), a Soul (Hebrew), is GOD, then??

Or did you mean, is a SON of God?

But holy angels are Spirit alone, and they are Sons of God, too!!!

I have no idea what you are raving about.

 

[Brian2]

You can’t really answer the questions, can you?

God CANNOT BECOME… God is PERFECTION… Perfection cannot become anything else.

If God can become mortal then all is madness. This is why Scriptures says that we must not grieve the Spirit of Truth. If truth is grieved then all is madness, all is lost!!

What question are you talking about?

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is not a deity, which is what the JWs say He is, but as the Son of God with the same nature as His Father, He is divine, of God.

My views have nothing at all to do with JW.

So let me say it another way: Jesus Christ IS NOT DEITY.

And, I have no idea what you mean by DIVINE. It’s just one of those words that Trinitarians bandy about but for which they, like you, never give a credible definition.

So, tell me what ‘Divine’ means in the claim that ‘Jesus is divine’.

 

[Soapy]

What question are you talking about?

The questions you are scared of answering.

 

[Eli G]

Firstborn: πρωτοτόκος

= πρῶτος + τίκτω

Do you know what τίκτω means?

 

[Sargonski]

Why is Jesus Christ, the only one in the fallacy of a triad of Persons masquerading as one Person entitled ‘God’, controversially pre-existent - but is said to BECOME GREAT ONLY AFTER being born as a human child?

Consider these verses in your response:

“… I (YHWH) WILL BECOME his father, and he WILL BECOME my son” (Hebrews 1:5)

“He WILL BE great and WILL BE called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God (YHWH) WILL GIVE HIM the throne of his father, [King] David.” (Luke 1:32)

“This is my Son, the one who I (YHWH) have chosen.” (Luke 9:35)

‘The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High (YHWH) will overshadow [the virgin mary]. THEREFORE the holy one to be born WILL BE CALLED the Son of God.’ (Luke 1:35)

How can some who is pre-existent (as God) only ‘To be a Son’, ‘To become great’, ‘To acquire an earthly throne’?

Is this a case of a ‘Greater become a Lesser’ - and why in Heaven or on earth would a GOD desire to be his own creation:

• Does a comic book animator desire to become a character he has created in his comic book?
• Does an Aquarist who owns his fish and maintains them in an aquarium desire to become a fish in that aquarium?

Plenty more clues on page 1 .. as to the nature of Christs divinity .. but first one must consider only Mark .. the original story .. as if one is a person in the 1st century hearing about Jesus .. ... another messiah claimaint .. there were others .. and was a Messianic time for the Jews -- fighting to regain state-hood /autonomy on the outskirts of the Roman Empire .. and you get this text written by someone said to be a pupil of Peter at one point in time .. interpreter for him as he spoke not Greek.

And you read this Story -- what does this person read ? there is no virgin birth in the Story .. no immaculate conception .. never mind pre-existence .. on page 1 we have John the Baptist .. .. a prophet of sorts famous among the Messianic Jews at the time .. man name Jesus comes .. at age of 30 .. and we have a typical adoption trope of which all readers would be familiar .. man of 30 .. a common age .. adopted by God .. gets a small piece of the All Spark but first he must face a ritual trial .. 40 days -- 40 nights .. being tested by the Tester of Souls .. prior to getting his all spark actualized .. like the Pharaoh King Making Ritual after which the Pharaoh was part Divine .. and which apparently could be somewhat dangerous .. ingested potions of some kind ..

anyway .. your right with the story .. everything sounds as it should .. then we are told that this is the "Messiah" .. this is right on the first page .. "The Annointed one of God" --- K .K everyone on the page of the first century reader ? Annointed one of God .. does a Jew know any others who might have that title ? King David .. King Solomon . Cyrus the Great of Persia --- Are we noticing that all of these folks are human .. none claiming to be born of any divine source .. the normal way .

The reader believes this is a man with some holy gifts .. a healer . a Prophet of the Most High -- At no time ... does the reader think this fellow is the Most High God himself .. wandering around under -cover .. and to suggest this to this person you whould be taken as insane. .. comnpletely not how the story went.

but wait, there is more -- the fellow who tests Jesus -- who does the reader think that fine fellow is ? .. any student of the OT knows this fellow well .. He is the tester of souls from Job .. one of the many Sons of God -- this son a particular favorite of God Supreme .. and a God with exceptional Godly powers. .. not quite the monotheistic twist we were hoping for .. but I didn't write the book .. don't blame me that the Israelites at no during their existence were monotheistic .. nor even close .. raging Polytheists .. So the reader is very clear who this "Son of God" is that is testing Jesus .. now -- as we find out later .. has been promoted to Chief God on Earth --- having the entire erth in the palm of his hand to give to Jesus should the Son of Man submit to the Son of God.

Our Hero passes the test with flying colors .. goes on to be a great Healer ands Prophet who ends up a human sacrifice to this God albeit against his will - something he is not at all happy about .. was like .. I don't wanna do this but if you force me .. I will .. then when God don't step into substitute .. like he did Isaac , in one version of the OT Story -- Our Lord and Savior is none to happy .. "My God - MY God ---why .. why have you forsaken me" abandoned by his God - he gets buried in a cave (cause thats where all our resurrection hero's get buried) .. but the body disappears .. and the story ends .. reader left wondering what happened .. no indication of whether or not the promise of a the resurrection is valid.

There is no Jesus is God in the Story .. just is not the case .. would be a coplete absurdity to our 1st century reader .. complete bonkers .. and heresy to boot.

 

[amazing grace]

Of course something or someone does not exist before they actually exist.

But isn't that what the whole concept of "pre-existence", i.e. before existence?

Of course the human Jesus came into existence in His mother's womb and was born and grew just like any other human.
However there are those who say that the prehuman Jesus was created, so you do not need a preconceived notion of a triune God to see the pre existence of Jesus.

Where does scripture say what Jesus was before he "became human", i.e. "came into existence in his mother's womb"?

That all sounds right to me. I'm not sure what you meant by "IOW God's plan for the Messiah" however.

All prophecy concerning the coming Messiah was in God's foreknowledge, i.e. God's plan for the salvation/redemption of humanity.

 

[Soapy]

Plenty more clues on page 1 .. as to the nature of Christs divinity .. but first one must consider only Mark .. the original story .. as if one is a person in the 1st century hearing about Jesus .. ... another messiah claimaint .. there were others .. and was a Messianic time for the Jews -- fighting to regain state-hood /autonomy on the outskirts of the Roman Empire .. and you get this text written by someone said to be a pupil of Peter at one point in time .. interpreter for him as he spoke not Greek.

And you read this Story -- what does this person read ? there is no virgin birth in the Story .. no immaculate conception .. never mind pre-existence .. on page 1 we have John the Baptist .. .. a prophet of sorts famous among the Messianic Jews at the time .. man name Jesus comes .. at age of 30 .. and we have a typical adoption trope of which all readers would be familiar .. man of 30 .. a common age .. adopted by God .. gets a small piece of the All Spark but first he must face a ritual trial .. 40 days -- 40 nights .. being tested by the Tester of Souls .. prior to getting his all spark actualized .. like the Pharaoh King Making Ritual after which the Pharaoh was part Divine .. and which apparently could be somewhat dangerous .. ingested potions of some kind ..

anyway .. your right with the story .. everything sounds as it should .. then we are told that this is the "Messiah" .. this is right on the first page .. "The Annointed one of God" --- K .K everyone on the page of the first century reader ? Annointed one of God .. does a Jew know any others who might have that title ? King David .. King Solomon . Cyrus the Great of Persia --- Are we noticing that all of these folks are human .. none claiming to be born of any divine source .. the normal way .

The reader believes this is a man with some holy gifts .. a healer . a Prophet of the Most High -- At no time ... does the reader think this fellow is the Most High God himself .. wandering around under -cover .. and to suggest this to this person you whould be taken as insane. .. comnpletely not how the story went.

but wait, there is more -- the fellow who tests Jesus -- who does the reader think that fine fellow is ? .. any student of the OT knows this fellow well .. He is the tester of souls from Job .. one of the many Sons of God -- this son a particular favorite of God Supreme .. and a God with exceptional Godly powers. .. not quite the monotheistic twist we were hoping for .. but I didn't write the book .. don't blame me that the Israelites at no during their existence were monotheistic .. nor even close .. raging Polytheists .. So the reader is very clear who this "Son of God" is that is testing Jesus .. now -- as we find out later .. has been promoted to Chief God on Earth --- having the entire erth in the palm of his hand to give to Jesus should the Son of Man submit to the Son of God.

Our Hero passes the test with flying colors .. goes on to be a great Healer ands Prophet who ends up a human sacrifice to this God albeit against his will - something he is not at all happy about .. was like .. I don't wanna do this but if you force me .. I will .. then when God don't step into substitute .. like he did Isaac , in one version of the OT Story -- Our Lord and Savior is none to happy .. "My God - MY God ---why .. why have you forsaken me" abandoned by his God - he gets buried in a cave (cause thats where all our resurrection hero's get buried) .. but the body disappears .. and the story ends .. reader left wondering what happened .. no indication of whether or not the promise of a the resurrection is valid.

There is no Jesus is God in the Story .. just is not the case .. would be a coplete absurdity to our 1st century reader .. complete bonkers .. and heresy to boot.

Yes, I kinda hear what you are saying.

No one of Jewish descent had any notion of anything like, ‘God became a man’. Such nonsense was but the belief of pagan tribes and nations. The Greeks and the Romans, maybe even the Egyptians.

It would be likely that faiss teachers of Christianity tried to proselytise pagans by ‘allowing’ these converts to believe in ‘many Gods’ but just say that these are ‘One God’.
This is exactly what Trinity says.

 

[Brian2]

My views have nothing at all to do with JW.

So let me say it another way: Jesus Christ IS NOT DEITY.

And, I have no idea what you mean by DIVINE. It’s just one of those words that Trinitarians bandy about but for which they, like you, never give a credible definition.

So, tell me what ‘Divine’ means in the claim that ‘Jesus is divine’.

I did say what "Divine" means in this sentence. See if you can spot it.
Jesus is not a deity, which is what the JWs say He is, but as the Son of God with the same nature as His Father, He is divine, of God.

 

[Brian2]

Firstborn: πρωτοτόκος

= πρῶτος + τίκτω

Do you know what τίκτω means?

It looks Greek to me.

 

[Brian2]

But isn't that what the whole concept of "pre-existence", i.e. before existence?

"pre-existence" in relation to Jesus, means His existence before He became a man.

Where does scripture say what Jesus was before he "became human", i.e. "came into existence in his mother's womb"?

That is a bit ambiguous as to the meaning of "where", however we are told that Jesus lived before becoming a man and also came from heaven.
It's very plain to anyone who has no preconceived idea that Jesus did not exist before becoming a man, and really the scriptures tell us these things so that we don't end up with the idea that Jesus did not come into existence when He was conceived in Mary.
Phil 2: 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
John 6: 62 Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?
John 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—
1Cor 15:46The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.…

All prophecy concerning the coming Messiah was in God's foreknowledge, i.e. God's plan for the salvation/redemption of humanity.

Yes the coming Messiah would be a man, lower than the angels, an Israelite, a Jew, a servant of God, a prophet like Moses who is authosed by God and speaks words from God.

 

[Sargonski]

Yes, I kinda hear what you are saying.

No one of Jewish descent had any notion of anything like, ‘God became a man’. Such nonsense was but the belief of pagan tribes and nations. The Greeks and the Romans, maybe even the Egyptians.

It would be likely that faiss teachers of Christianity tried to proselytise pagans by ‘allowing’ these converts to believe in ‘many Gods’ but just say that these are ‘One God’.
This is exactly what Trinity says.

The problem with the Trinity--- aside from having no basis in the teachings of Jesus. -- and in fact the teachings of JEsus contradicting the idea at every step of the way -- is that it contradicts itself ..

3 Persons --- Same Substance .. the "God Substance" To the greeks-greek philosophy -theology -- there were 2 kinds of substance 1) that which God was made of .. 2) that which everything else was made of --

The church was in disaray over the nature of Christs divinity .. Constantine wanted unity for politicl reasons -- and thus at the council of Nicea declared Jesus "Homoousios" - "Same Substance" "Same substance by whom all things are made" if you remember the old wording of the creed.

It is very similar to the allspark in transformers -- need a little shard .. and thus these three people . are unified in substance == at which point some will argue "Persons not People" .. which is silly because are the same. IF - each of these God-People has an individual will .. and can act autonomously from the other .. knows things the othe does not know ... these are 3 individual Gods .. hence the importance of the scene prior to crucifixion where Jesus is begging not to be made to go through with the plan .. "Take this Cup from My hand" .. The will of Jesus is not to go through with the plan .. but he says "let it be your will not mine"

Then at the end of the story .. we find out that God goes with his original plan - His Will, and not the Will of Jesus hence the final words of Jesus "My God My God - why has thou forsaken me"

One can not --- in sound mind at this point IMO - claim that a single early Christian reading this story thinks Jesus is "The Father" - reading mark for the first time .. having never heard of any other scripture.

and the story was no problem because everyone . even Jews .. believed in other divinities ... Angels in the very least . who if come with hefty divine powers and the ability to interact with humans directly and use those powers .. is a God.. just not the Most High God for the Monotheists .. so it is really not that much of a problem for Jesus to be divine .. have a little shard of the all spark.. or as an emanation from the Godhead.. getting into the Gnostic ideas.

 

[Brian2]

3 Persons --- Same Substance .. the "God Substance" To the greeks-greek philosophy -theology -- there were 2 kinds of substance 1) that which God was made of .. 2) that which everything else was made of --

It makes sense that God is one substance or nature or essence.

The church was in disaray over the nature of Christs divinity .. Constantine wanted unity for politicl reasons -- and thus at the council of Nicea declared Jesus "Homoousios" - "Same Substance" "Same substance by whom all things are made" if you remember the old wording of the creed.

The nature of Christ's divinity has always been that Jesus is God and heresies caused the Church to define that more concisely. Constantine did not decide anything. He was allowed to declare what the Church had decided in order to combat the then current heresy, which was the Jesus had been created but which is the easiest thing to show from the scriptures to be wrong. But that ease did not stop the heresy from being popular, just as it is today in some circles.

It is very similar to the allspark in transformers -- need a little shard .. and thus these three people . are unified in substance == at which point some will argue "Persons not People" .. which is silly because are the same. IF - each of these God-People has an individual will .. and can act autonomously from the other .. knows things the othe does not know ... these are 3 individual Gods .. hence the importance of the scene prior to crucifixion where Jesus is begging not to be made to go through with the plan .. "Take this Cup from My hand" .. The will of Jesus is not to go through with the plan .. but he says "let it be your will not mine"

I imagine "persons" is used instead of "people" because "people" would probably have pointed to 3 humans. "Persons" seems to point to 3 consciousnesses in the same God.
Jesus of course, as a man, did not want to go through with the pain, but was perfectly willing to go through with the plan if that was the only way, because He submitted to the will of His Father. So He overcame His carnal nature, and that is why He was sent, because He, being exactly like His Father, would be able to do that.

Then at the end of the story .. we find out that God goes with his original plan - His Will, and not the Will of Jesus hence the final words of Jesus "My God My God - why has thou forsaken me"

One can not --- in sound mind at this point IMO - claim that a single early Christian reading this story thinks Jesus is "The Father" - reading mark for the first time .. having never heard of any other scripture.

You have it right when you say that Jesus is not the Father. Surely you don't think that Tritarians teach that Jesus is the Father,,,,,,,,,,, do you?

and the story was no problem because everyone . even Jews .. believed in other divinities ... Angels in the very least . who if come with hefty divine powers and the ability to interact with humans directly and use those powers .. is a God.. just not the Most High God for the Monotheists .. so it is really not that much of a problem for Jesus to be divine .. have a little shard of the all spark.. or as an emanation from the Godhead.. getting into the Gnostic ideas.

Having the apostolic Fathers calling Jesus "our God" just as Thomas did (John 20:28) And those apostolic Fathers presumably teaching what their apostle associates had taught, it is no problem to see that Jesus was Divine, in the sense of being "of God".
Hebrews 1 &2 show us that Jesus had not been an angel, but was the Son of God and had the glory of God and the nature of God and created all things.
These are scriptures that the early church used.

 

[Soapy]

I did say what "Divine" means in this sentence. See if you can spot it.
Jesus is not a deity, which is what the JWs say He is, but as the Son of God with the same nature as His Father, He is divine, of God.

STOP GOONG ON ABOUT JW which has nothing to do with me…. Why not talk about what Sikhs say, or HarriKrishna’s… You are trying to claim something against me by appealing to the beliefs of others who have nothing to do with me…. all because you cannot find fault with my belief!!! Sad Sad Sad…!! Depressingly desperate of you!!

Jesus Christ IS NOT A DEITY… I don’t care who else say he is or who else says he is not.

Have you run out of ideas of how to try to defeat the truth…. !!! That’s good - then you see that what else is left IS the truth.

 

[Soapy]

It makes sense that God is one substance or nature or essence.



The nature of Christ's divinity has always been that Jesus is God and heresies caused the Church to define that more concisely. Constantine did not decide anything. He was allowed to declare what the Church had decided in order to combat the then current heresy, which was the Jesus had been created but which is the easiest thing to show from the scriptures to be wrong. But that ease did not stop the heresy from being popular, just as it is today in some circles.



I imagine "persons" is used instead of "people" because "people" would probably have pointed to 3 humans. "Persons" seems to point to 3 consciousnesses in the same God.
Jesus of course, as a man, did not want to go through with the pain, but was perfectly willing to go through with the plan if that was the only way, because He submitted to the will of His Father. So He overcame His carnal nature, and that is why He was sent, because He, being exactly like His Father, would be able to do that.



You have it right when you say that Jesus is not the Father. Surely you don't think that Tritarians teach that Jesus is the Father,,,,,,,,,,, do you?



Having the apostolic Fathers calling Jesus "our God" just as Thomas did (John 20:28) And those apostolic Fathers presumably teaching what their apostle associates had taught, it is no problem to see that Jesus was Divine, in the sense of being "of God".
Hebrews 1 &2 show us that Jesus had not been an angel, but was the Son of God and had the glory of God and the nature of God and created all things.
These are scriptures that the early church used.

Where does the scriptures say that Jesus had the nature of God?

What is ‘The nature of God’.

You can’t say, can you!!! You can only keep repeating the phrase as though doing so gives its definition.

And, by the way, ALL MANKIND is made in the IMAGE OF GOD!

What is ‘The Image of God’… You don’t know, do you???!

 

[wellwisher]

Why is Jesus Christ, the only one in the fallacy of a triad of Persons masquerading as one Person entitled ‘God’, controversially pre-existent - but is said to BECOME GREAT ONLY AFTER being born as a human child?

The easiest modern way to explain this is with the modern computer concept of the multi-core processor. Modern computers and even cell phones have a single processor, that has multiple cores. The new iPhone 15 pro uses the Apple A17 processor with a hexa-core (2x3) CPU and 6 GPU or graphic cores.

Each core can act separately, as an independent processor, when there is multitasking to do. Or they can all act as one combined processor when doing large and/or very complex projects.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Hoy Spirit is a single divine processor with a trinity core. This is not polytheism, since it is still just one processor.

Say one of the three cores; Son core, was assigned a tiny little project, that is way below its capacity. Jesus must be born, grow, live and even die as a human. This would be like owning one of the most expensive sports car in the universe; below, but only allowed to crawl at low RMP's in first gear; idle speed.

The Resurrection signaled, the end of that little task, and the reassignment to a larger and more challenging task, that will gradually require all the cores helping the Son-core. Then the Son becomes one with the Father; they work together to make a New Heavens and Earth, in Revelations. God learns from the Son, by him having been the human wildcard, and adapts the new Creation; lessons learned are knowledge gained.

 

[Soapy]

The easiest modern way to explain this is with the modern computer concept of the multi-core processor. Modern computers and even cell phones have a single processor, that has multiple cores. The new iPhone 15 pro uses the Apple A17 processor with a hexa-core (2x3) CPU and 6 GPU or graphic cores.

Each core can act separately, as an independent processor, when there is multitasking to do. Or they can all act as one combined processor when doing large and/or very complex projects.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Hoy Spirit is a single divine processor with a trinity core. This is not polytheism, since it is still just one processor.

Say one of the three cores; Son core, was assigned a tiny little project, that is way below its capacity. Jesus must be born, grow, live and even die as a human. This would be like owning one of the most expensive sports car in the universe; below, but only allowed to crawl at low RMP's in first gear; idle speed.

The Resurrection signaled, the end of that little task, and the reassignment to a larger and more challenging task, that will gradually require all the cores helping the Son-core. Then the Son becomes one with the Father; they work together to make a New Heavens and Earth, in Revelations. God learns from the Son, by him having been the human wildcard, and adapts the new Creation; lessons learned are knowledge gained.

Er hum… The MULTICORE processor is not a SINGLE PROCESSOR…..!!!

It may be one slab with many cores on it but then you have an entity that is OUTSIDE of the core… or the cores are on.

If you are saying that ‘GOD’ is the Slab and ‘The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ are three cores on it how do you then say that the three CORES ARE THE ESSENCE OF THE SLAB?

The Slab is simply a container for the cores. It serves no purpose other than to provide access points (pins) for external inputs and outputs for each core.

This is NOT a model of God, even a three person God.

Moreover, how do you remove the ‘Jesus’ core and make it into a peripheral while still calling it a CENTRAL PROCESSOR? There can only ever be ONE ‘CENTRAL’ processor!!!

Perhaps you might have been better to say that:

1. God is the Central Processor without which nothing worthy can occur
2. Jesus is the Kernal which manages the interaction between hardware and Software
3. The Application Software is THE SPIRIT which acts on the Hardware (The created world)

But this ‘model’ is not a (trinity three) ‘GOD’ model. It’s a top-down heirachial model which models what is said about Jesus Christ:

• ‘He the ONLY mediator between GOD and Man.
• ‘The Kernal interfaces between the CPU (God) and the Hardware (Man)
• When GOD gives us his Spirit to be with is eternally, that is like a ROM module in hardware - a permanent ‘Spirit’ (programme) which cannot change

 

[Brian2]

STOP GOONG ON ABOUT JW which has nothing to do with me…. Why not talk about what Sikhs say, or HarriKrishna’s… You are trying to claim something against me by appealing to the beliefs of others who have nothing to do with me…. all because you cannot find fault with my belief!!! Sad Sad Sad…!! Depressingly desperate of you!!

That was a quote from my previous post so is the same goong on, nothing new, same desperate me.

Jesus Christ IS NOT A DEITY… I don’t care who else say he is or who else says he is not.

Plenty of people in the New Testament say that Jesus is God. Is it any wonder that you don't think He is God or even a god.

Have you run out of ideas of how to try to defeat the truth…. !!! That’s good - then you see that what else is left IS the truth.

When you can't defeat the truth it's best to join it.