proof of the true God?

[Thief]

Na that’s a view from your prospective and a presumption that something made it. Though that may be sufficient for some. In the world of debate, it takes a little more focus then that, atheists, not to mention all souls see the same as you describe, and they aren’t seeing it.


Plus the question is who or what is the True God, not whether one can believe there is a god or gods, or not.

Cause and effect
you can't separate one from the other

 

[PureX]

if you conceptualize the idea of "God" then its not a true Creator is it?

Why not? What is a "true creator" besides a concept?

you don't conceptualize the sun or the moon, they just are, through no help of man's imagination.

We don't/can't know that because to "know" is to conceptualize what we perceive/experience. Just as God is a conceptualization of how we perceive and experience existence. Knowledge is concept.

therefore the true Creator need not man to be. though there are many idols and gods created by man's imagination.

That's a bit of a moot tautology. "The truth is what is" ... sure, but so what if we can't know what "is" is?

the artist (creator) paints a painting to his satisfactions, the painting has no say in that.

As an artist, myself, I can say that the things I create have a great deal to say, both to me and to other viewers. In fact, that's WHY I make them. Art is an expression of me. I can learn about myself and how I relate to the world, through them. Why won't it be the same for a 'creator-god'? That He 'meets Himself' through His creation?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Cause and effect
you can't separate one from the other

So what caused God?

 

[Thief]

So what caused God?

We get to ask Him when we get there

in the mean time.......choose

substance first?
or Spirit?

if you choose substance.....then Man is a mystery with no purpose
or resolve

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes..
When there is no more people on earth, there is no god; we can hope, but the fact god is not physical in nature means he exist in the life and hearts of people alive. When there is no people, there is no god.
We do have capacity for spiritual inclinations so we sometimes lean towards the religion which helps with our wellbeing. Biblical spirituality is just one option not the option.
We dont know this apart from what you read and what you experience. Take away the bible and people and describe god without the prophets.
Circular logic means you are using the same source to which you made your claims. Of course the bible will support itself (circular logic). The challenge is trying to find other sources to back up its validity; one that doesnt reflect what the bible sayas in another form.
Educational tools are not always spiritual facts.
It depends on the person. Its not spiritual in and of itself.

To me, it is more like ' IF ' there are No more people on Earth.
Since Scripture teaches that humble meek people will inherit the Earth, then ' yes ' there will be people on Earth.

The invisible God, according to 1 Kings 8:39,49, has a home and His home is in the heavens.
So, the God of the Bible has a specific home location, however I know of No ZIP code for Him.

Sure, there are many options, but according to Jesus his option to live forever on Earth or Heaven is the only option. Some called to heaven such as those called Jesus ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40, whereas the humble ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:37 can gain 'everlasting life on Earth' starting with Jesus' coming 1,000-year rule over Earth.

Can't take away the Bible No matter how hard people try. It won't happen. No one can do that.
A lot of ancient history is mentioned in the Bible. Real places, Real named people.
To me the Bible is a Christians educational tool, and the knowledge contained inside is scriptural/spiritual facts.
The fact that the world will soon see the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 before the outbreak of the great tribulation.
As the ' end ' came hard and swift in Noah's day, and the end came hard and swift for Sodom and Gomorrah, there is No reason to doubt the end of the wicked on Earth will also be hard and also swift.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How exactly do Jesus and Seer differ?

Jesus is the heavenly Son of the Seer before The Seer sent heavenly Jesus to Earth for us.
The Seer of Scripture is from everlasting as per Psalms 90:2 meaning No beginning for The Seer.
Whereas, as per Revelation 3:14 B The Seer's first creation was His first Son in the heavens.
So, only The Seer was before the beginning. Jesus was Not before the beginning as his God/Seer was.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

what is written isn't proof its only affirmation one is experiencing the same God, in the case of the bible it would be the God of Israel. hence a testimony of the what the writer experienced.

I find there is ' proof in patterns ' Bible writers experienced, for example:
* Moses experienced deliverance from the Egyptian military.
* In King Hezekiah's reign around 700+ BCE (before our common era) Jerusalem experienced deliverance from the Assyrian military as per 2 Chronicles 32:21; Isaiah 37:36-38.
* In the year 70 faithful Jews had left un-faithful Jerusalem and experienced deliverance from the Roman military.
So, to me there is No reason to doubt that the God of the Bible will once again show human military will Not bring deliverance, but that there will be once again deliverance by divine forces to protect people of goodwill because angelic military will come to the deliverance of righteous persons to establish Peace on Earth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm.

To me, it is more like ' IF ' there are No more people on Earth.
Since Scripture teaches that humble meek people will inherit the Earth, then ' yes ' there will be people on Earth.

There is no IF. We know more about life and death today then we did over the magic number of 2,000 years ago. I remember reading one period where, I think the Romans took the hearts of their dead and weighed it. If the heart dropped on one side, it meant that the king was a good one and goes to heaven. The other side, he is burried but not adorned with jewels and rituals.

We had some weird things we thought were fact back then as we do today. Now we know things change, they die, and form into other things. Scripture is no exception to this transformation of experiences. Its apart of life.

I just watched a Youtube video that scientist studied the earth will gradually come closer to the sun as it changes it axis in rotation. As such, life can no longer exist on earth; we die. Like everything else, total extinction.

Can't take away the Bible No matter how hard people try. It won't happen. No one can do that. A lot of ancient history is mentioned in the Bible. Real places, Real named people.

Sure you can. The bible isnt universal. There are many many many countries not colonized by christians that never heard of the bibles. Many people on RF never even picked up a bible noneless read it.

Buddhism has real places and real names. So does the evidence we found of the growth of the earth. Did you know the earth is not a perfect circle?! Its a rock (I knew that part) but interesting we think its a perfect circle; rocks arent like that really.

We have historical evidence of real people and real places. The myths and supernatural are assumptions based on the real places and real people. Just like my asking you to prove your spiritual experiences, we cant ask any prophet about theirs.

I mean, you can write your experiences and someone reads it 2,000 years later may find some value since youre a real person in a real place; its the same logic.

I know its nice to think things will continue for eternity. Life just doesnt work that way.

edit.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hmm.
There is no IF. We know more about life and death today then we did over the magic number of 2,000 years ago. I remember reading one period where, I think the Romans took the hearts of their dead and weighed it. If the heart dropped on one side, it meant that the king was a good one and goes to heaven. The other side, he is burried but not adorned with jewels and rituals.
We had some weird things we thought were fact back then as we do today. Now we know things change, they die, and form into other things. Scripture is no exception to this transformation of experiences. Its apart of life.
I just watched a Youtube video that scientist studied the earth will gradually come closer to the sun as it changes it axis in rotation. As such, life can no longer exist on earth; we die. Like everything else, total extinction.
Sure you can. The bible isnt universal. There are many many many countries not colonized by christians that never heard of the bibles. Many people on RF never even picked up a bible noneless read it.
Buddhism has real places and real names. So does the evidence we found of the growth of the earth. Did you know the earth is not a perfect circle?! Its a rock (I knew that part) but interesting we think its a perfect circle; rocks arent like that really.
We have historical evidence of real people and real places. The myths and supernatural are assumptions based on the real places and real people. Just like my asking you to prove your spiritual experiences, we cant ask any prophet about theirs.
I mean, you can write your experiences and someone reads it 2,000 years later may find some value since youre a real person in a real place; its the same logic.
I know its nice to think things will continue for eternity. Life just doesnt work that way.
edit.

More than 2,000 year ago I find there was much known about life and death.
True, things die and turn into other things. Mortal Adam simply returned back to dust as per Genesis 3:19.
A person or thing can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply went back to where he started.
Adam started from non-life, lived, and ' returned ' back to non-life ( dust of the ground ).

More than 2,000 years ago Jesus taught at John 11:11-14 that the dead are in a sleeping state.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach: sleep in death.
-> Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing.
Apparently those non-Jewish Romans did Not believe the dead sleep as Jesus believed and taught.

Earth is an oblate spheroid and like the moon viewed from a distance looks round.

Sure the Bible is universal: Remote Translation offices make possible Bible translation in people's native languages or mother tongues right where they live. We No longer need to send from here to there. There is already there.
It is now accomplished just as Jesus said it would be at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

Just because many have Not read the Bible, yet alone studied it, does Not mean they don't have the opportunity.
Does anyone know of anyone who has Not heard of the Bible_______

In this system, things do Not work for eternity, but in this world people do Not know all that God has to offer.
We do read at Ecclesiastes 1:4 B that the Earth abides forever. So, God has a purpose for an eternal Earth.
Sure, we don't know the details but we will starting with Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

More than 2,000 year ago I find there was much known about life and death.
True, things die and turn into other things. Mortal Adam simply returned back to dust as per Genesis 3:19.
A person or thing can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply went back to where he started.
Adam started from non-life, lived, and ' returned ' back to non-life ( dust of the ground ).

More than 2,000 years ago Jesus taught at John 11:11-14 that the dead are in a sleeping state.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach: sleep in death.
-> Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead know nothing.
Apparently those non-Jewish Romans did Not believe the dead sleep as Jesus believed and taught.

Earth is an oblate spheroid and like the moon viewed from a distance looks round.

Sure the Bible is universal: Remote Translation offices make possible Bible translation in people's native languages or mother tongues right where they live. We No longer need to send from here to there. There is already there.
It is now accomplished just as Jesus said it would be at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

Just because many have Not read the Bible, yet alone studied it, does Not mean they don't have the opportunity.
Does anyone know of anyone who has Not heard of the Bible_______

In this system, things do Not work for eternity, but in this world people do Not know all that God has to offer.
We do read at Ecclesiastes 1:4 B that the Earth abides forever. So, God has a purpose for an eternal Earth.
Sure, we don't know the details but we will starting with Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.

It is very very hard to pick through your points. Please summarize your poems points and either drop the scripture or list them at the bottom so I know what you are saying.

 

[DPMartin]

In you?

Are you guessing?

 

[DPMartin]

In the experience.


Nowhere as of yet. It's up to us if we believe in such.


We can't know if something exists for such amounts of time, we ourselves live but a short time here on a tiny planet in a tiny solar system in just one of the galaxies in one of the superclusters...

its amazing how much you think know you can't know when you have no proof of that either.

 

[DPMartin]

In your head...

With enough, faith, conviction on your part your subconscious mind will likely provide you all the proof you need.

thought proves nothing and misplaced faith kills. faith that the bus wouldn't run you over and it does proves what?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are you guessing?

Naw. Retorical question. Wouldnt the truth of god be in you?

 

[Jumi]

its amazing how much you think know you can't know when you have no proof of that either.

If it's that amazing why don't you share some proof?

 

[PureX]

What we can prove is that placing our faith in the proposition that a kind, loving, forgiving, benevolent God exists, helps us to be kind, loving, forgiving, and benevolent humans. And in so doing, our experience of being human is greatly improved. I don't see how it matters that such a God actually exists, or does not. Because what matters, and what causes the positive change, is that we are willing to HOPE that such a god exists, and we are willing to trust in that hope by living as if such a God does exist. And thereby we become the human expression of that hope. And of that positive spirit.

I understand wanting "proof", because it's easy for us to doubt when we become afraid, and are made vulnerable because of that trust. But ultimately a life well lived becomes it's own reward. And that reward can be all the "proof" we need to keep going.

 

[DPMartin]

I look for proof that there "isn't" a God. A big bang with the heat of a trillion suns cools off and out comes man. That's like saying an explosion happened in a print factory and out came Websters Dictionary.

Something we cannot explain is evident. Something much higher than the bang itself.

the question isn't whether or not there is a God is it? besides if someone worships a piece of carved wood as a god then there is a god, doesn't mean its the true God. so there's your proof there is a god or gods.

 

[DPMartin]

There is no proof that God exists, only evidence.
The Messengers of God such as Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are the evidence of the true God, the Creator and Judge, the Living God, the Most High.

Who told you that? Or is that an assumption of your own?

 

[DPMartin]

As others have noted in various ways, your question is not quite clear or quite whole or quite meaningful in those exact terms.

Not everyone has a God conception that it would make sense to attempt to prove. Or that fits the description you give.

Before a meaningful answer can be given we would need to delimit your god-concept and establish how and why it would need or support the idea of a proof. Also, what kind of proof? Proof of what? Of clarity of concept? Literal existence? Internal coherence? Verisimilitude?

Sooooo, what you are saying here is you need to know what I think before you can feed me a line of horse dump, correct?

Most here see what they think and, and never see what’s there. The OP isn’t confusing, it’s that the OP is being addressed by the confused.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sooooo, what you are saying here is you need to know what I think before you can feed me a line of horse dump, correct?

Most here see what they think and, and never see what’s there. The OP isn’t confusing, it’s that the OP is being addressed by the confused.

You know, I used to be young and rather silly. I am no longer young.

Therefore, allow me to ask: are you sure that you want to discuss what should be considered horse dump here in this thread?

I pointed out that the OP makes specific assumptions that must be fulfilled in order to make sense of it. That is all. Don't be ruffled without need, pal.