Prop 8 Support Defense for those of us who are LDS or like-minded in moral values

[Mr Spinkles]

#1: Religions, churches, charities, non-profits, and other organizations are all free to take part in the political process whether you like it or not.

#2: Not all Mormons supported Prop 8. In fact, on the RF, the Mormons who did support Prop 8 are the minority. Given that fact, maybe you could stop stereotyping and bashing all Mormons. I voted against Prop 8 and you treat me like trash. Maybe I was wrong to vote the way I did. I was trying to show tolerance and when things didn't go the gay way they respond with intolerance towards me.

#3: The LDS do not have a "corner of the world." While not a mega-religion like Catholicism, the LDS are in all corners of the world.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed. (Although how was intolerance directed at you, other than perhaps by Divine Spear's comments? I hope it was nothing I said...)

 

[Luminous]

No I don't think less of a gay person. I think less of what they do. I believe in loving the sinner but hating the sin.

What sin do gay people commit? marrying? ..... sodomy? lesbians can't much commit this "sin". please if you know your sins so well. Why don't you tell me them ALL. then i'll read it and tell you all the ones you could not find while you were looking them up. what's the Third Commandment. What's the seventh. Which aply now which appled only then. which apply to all, which to only christians and jews?

 

[Luminous]

#1: Religions, churches, charities, non-profits, and other organizations are all free to take part in the political process whether you like it or not.

democracy gets more and more like a plutocrazy each day.

#2: Not all Mormons supported Prop 8. In fact, on the RF, the Mormons who did support Prop 8 are the minority. Given that fact, maybe you could stop stereotyping and bashing all Mormons. I voted against Prop 8 and you treat me like trash. Maybe I was wrong to vote the way I did. I was trying to show tolerance and when things didn't go the gay way they respond with intolerance towards me.

I'm :sorry1: about this. one of my best friends was a Mormon(went back to Utah for financial reasons). i do remember how people made fun of him for his religion at shcool. he was a great friend. i should not generalize people in any way. in truth i don't really care all that much about gay rights(sorry to those) i just don't like church/financial involvement in governance. but it is a reality i am gona have to accept. if there were some law to be passed against it i would march through hail and snow.

#3: The LDS do not have a "corner of the world." While not a mega-religion like Catholicism, the LDS are in all corners of the world.

i didn't really mean that the mormon church should go back to anywhere. i just ment they should stop involving themselfs in stripping privilages which cause no harm(in my view) and worry more about their followers.

 

[Watchmen]

Thanks for your post, Divine. I appreciate.


But can you tell me what "plutocrazy" means?

 

[texan1]

But can you tell me what "plutocrazy" means?

I thought it meant "Crazy about Pluto". No one ever talks about it, but there was another proposition on the ballot to re-instate Pluto as an official planet.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks for your post, Divine. I appreciate.


But can you tell me what "plutocrazy" means?

Assuming it's a typo...

Plutocracy

Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth.

And if not...

I'm just wild about Pluto
And Pluto's wild about me
I'm just wild about Pluto
And it's just wild about me
They call me plutocrazy (quite rightly)
They call me plutocrazy (quite rightly)

 

[Dirty Penguin]

infact, can anyone find scripture that even mentions gays?

I think in the OT and Paul from the NT spoke on it. Yeshua, to my knowledge never did.

But here's the thing their bible is not nor should it be in play here. Not all share their religious views. I sure don't. I suspect if they set aside their religious view they'd have nothing else.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13

People can't be serious about using either of these passages from this scroll can they? This is the same scroll that says they can't eat pork or shellfish. If they cite these as a proof for their position then I charge them with hypocrisy. There are a whole bunch ridiculous rules in Leviticus christians don't follow because of what Yeshua did for them. If Yeshua died for their sins and so the laws of Leviticus don't apply anymore then these two rules are out. Shucks Leviticus 18 makes it sound like me, being a grandparent, can't even change the stinky diaper of my grand child becuase that would be uncovering him or her. A lot of vague rules from this book that pepole don't even follow.....unless it suites their purpose...

Also, the story of Sodom & Gomorrah in Genesis 19 is sometimes cited, though I think that seeing how the "sin of Sodom" was attempted male-male gang-rape, there's enough sinfulness in the gang-rape part without inferring sinfulness in the male-male part.

Yep...unless this god said you can...you can't

Number 31:17-18
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

though I think we're taking the thread a bit off-topic.

I think you're correct here. I'm merely posting the biblical stuff to show that it shouldn't even be used used to determine whether or not gay people should be allowed to marry. Keep the religion out and if you keep the religion out then what's there to argue? Nothing left to do but grant the marriage to gay people....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

People can't be serious about using either of these passages from this scroll can they? This is the same scroll that says they can't eat pork or shellfish. If they cite these as a proof for their position then I charge them with hypocrisy.

I might as well, but it has been presented to me that way in the past.

 

[texan1]

YouTube - Don mclean - Till Tomorrow

 

[Luminous]

Mormon Church reveals deeper involvement in Prop. 8 - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Beehttp://www.wciv.com/news/stories/0109/590449.html

 

[Watchmen]

Interesting, but pointless. While I don't agree with the use of Church funds for such a purpose, looking at it from a legal perspective, the amount is a drop in the bucket when compared to the Church's total financials. Thus, they still won't fit the legal definition of a lobbyist and their tax-exempt status is secure.

 

[Draka]

Interesting, but pointless. While I don't agree with the use of Church funds for such a purpose, looking at it from a legal perspective, the amount is a drop in the bucket when compared to the Church's total financials. Thus, they still won't fit the legal definition of a lobbyist and their tax-exempt status is secure.

Nice to see that is all you are concerned about. :sarcastic

Guess it makes no difference to you that your church went out its way to ruin marriages and deny equal rights to a portion of the population. I know, I know...you voted NO. We've heard that time and time again. Still doesn't mean that your church isn't in the wrong.

 

[Watchmen]

Nice to see that is all you are concerned about. :sarcastic

Guess it makes no difference to you that your church went out its way to ruin marriages and deny equal rights to a portion of the population. I know, I know...you voted NO. We've heard that time and time again. Still doesn't mean that your church isn't in the wrong.

The article is about a legal investigation regarding the Church's political activity. I gave a legal response. It's not my problem that you can't detach yourself emotionally enough to conduct an objective analysis of the article. You'd rather attack me for making such an analysis.