Prophecies Jesus failed to fulfill?

[RabbiO]

No, Judaism is waiting for THE Messiah that will bring the entire world under Judaism.

If you are implying that @rosends is ill informed about traditional Jewish understandings, I would simply point out, if you are unaware of the fact, that rosends is an Orthodox rabbi.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, Judaism is waiting for THE Messiah that will bring the entire world under Judaism.

The man is an Orthodox Rabbi. Instead of presuming that you know more about Judaism than he does, I would sit back and see what I could learn from him about Judaism.

 

[Firenze]

If you are implying that @rosends is ill informed about traditional Jewish understandings, I would simply point out, if you are unaware of the fact, that rosends is an Orthodox rabbi.

Judaism is not immune to the disagreements that plague Christianity. When a rabbi contradicts the dozens of other rabbis I have engaged along with several Hebrew scholars - you'll forgive me if I respect the majority. Further, he has already agreed with me that the Jews are waiting for a specific Messiah. His comments on Cyrus are irrelevant to the point that Jewish eschatology, from the words of the Prophets, are in harmony with the attributes I cited earlier. Again, no Rabbi I have ever spoken to thinks a virgin birth is an attribute of The Messiah - except for those fringe members of Jews for Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Judaism is not immune to the disagreements that plague Christianity.

Sure you have a few different movements in Judaism. Now, compare that to the tens of thousands of denominations in Protestantism.

 

[rosends]

Judaism is not immune to the disagreements that plague Christianity. When a rabbi contradicts the dozens of other rabbis I have engaged along with several Hebrew scholars - you'll forgive me if I respect the majority. Further, he has already agreed with me that the Jews are waiting for a specific Messiah. His comments on Cyrus are irrelevant to the point that Jewish eschatology, from the words of the Prophets, are in harmony with the attributes I cited earlier. Again, no Rabbi I have ever spoken to thinks a virgin birth is an attribute of The Messiah - except for those fringe members of Jews for Jesus.

Is your claim that I, in pointing out the use of the term "m'shicho" (his anointed) in reference to Koresh, am somehow contradicting a normative understanding of Koresh as a type of messiah, different from Jesus?

Your earlier statement was "So he was no more the Messiah than Jesus was, and the Jews knew it" and pointing out that according to the text, you are wrong.

 

[Firenze]

Is your claim that I, in pointing out the use of the term "m'shicho" (his anointed) in reference to Koresh, am somehow contradicting a normative understanding of Koresh as a type of messiah, different from Jesus?

Your earlier statement was "So he was no more the Messiah than Jesus was, and the Jews knew it" and pointing out that according to the text, you are wrong.

Not sure why we are arguing at cross purposes here. Yes, many have been called Messiah - every king of Israel just for starters. But as you already know, none of those were considered 'The' Messiah - the one you already stated the Jews are still waiting for - the one from the line of David, who will rebuild the Temple, and unite the entire world under Judaism. So, unless your claim is that Jesus qualifies as 'The Messiah' who is the only subject of this and a million other Christian apologetic sites - then we appear to be quite off topic.

 

[rosends]

Not sure why we are arguing at cross purposes here. Yes, many have been called Messiah - every king of Israel just for starters. But as you already know, none of those were considered 'The' Messiah - the one you already stated the Jews are still waiting for - the one from the line of David, who will rebuild the Temple, and unite the entire world under Judaism. So, unless your claim is that Jesus qualifies as 'The Messiah' who is the only subject of this and a million other Christian apologetic sites - then we appear to be quite off topic.

I never claimed that Jesus qualifies as anything. The subject was your statement that "So he [Cyrus] was no more the Messiah than Jesus was, and the Jews knew it" when, textually, Cyrus was certainly more of a messiah than Jesus was.

 

[Firenze]

I never claimed that Jesus qualifies as anything. The subject was your statement that "So he [Cyrus] was no more the Messiah than Jesus was, and the Jews knew it" when, textually, Cyrus was certainly more of a messiah than Jesus was.

But neither was The Messiah - the only point I was making.

 

[Muffled]

This might be for @Rival , because she produced a list long ago, that was closest to what I am looking for, basically a list of prophecies of the Messiah that Jesus did not fulfill.

World peace and the political office was definitely two, but I'm looking for quotes and verse numbers please.

Also, there is more than one Messiah, because Scripture calls Cyrus the great the "anointed one, the Messiah", he ended Babylonian captivity, and built the temple.

Also, prophecies about the Messiah not damaging a bruised reed, turning the other cheek, being a pacifist, quiet lamb lead to slaughter, contradict other prophecies about the Messiah, that it actually isn't even possible for the prophecies to all be talking about the same person.

Last I read, a contemporary rabbi said there would be a warrior Messiah like Samson, from Dan, and another, the son of David, from Judah, which is why Dan and Judah were called Lions, the two built the temple and tabernacle.

Any feedback you have is appreciated. Thank you.

The rescue of Israel from the armies of the world set against her at the Battle of Armageddon.

 

[Muffled]

Since we are in Scriptural Debates: Scripturally speaking he isn't dead, so he hasn't failed. To fail he'd have to be dead.

I believe unfulfilled prophecy does not mean failure. For Christians it means a second coming. No other person has saved Israal at Armageddon yet because the war has not occurred yet.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, like the one where he said that he would be back before all of the disciples had passed away.

I believe that is a false interpretation. The true interpretation is that the generation would not pass after the sign had appeared. Whether that sign has appeared is debatable although it appears likely.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe that is a false interpretation. The true interpretation is that the generation would not pass after the sign had appeared. Whether that sign has appeared is debatable although it appears likely.

I know, that is what believers always say when they run into a prophecy that interpreted as wrong rfutes their belefs. Do you want to go over that and defend it? A week "well he might have meant this" is not a refutation.

By the way, when you react this way you do ruin the claim that there were all sorts of prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. The claim instead becomes:

"If you squint your eyes and shake your head really hard Jesus fulfilled hundreds of verses that looks like they might be prophecies". That should not convince anyone.

 

[Muffled]

I know, that is what believers always say when they run into a prophecy that interpreted as wrong rfutes their belefs. Do you want to go over that and defend it? A week "well he might have meant this" is not a refutation.

By the way, when you react this way you do ruin the claim that there were all sorts of prophecies fulfilled by Jesus. The claim instead becomes:

"If you squint your eyes and shake your head really hard Jesus fulfilled hundreds of verses that looks like they might be prophecies". That should not convince anyone.

I believe logic shows that cherry picking a verse out of context will lead to misinterpretation as you have done.

Mat. 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

"This" is a reference word. In other words it refers back to something. The logical choice is to refer back to the most recent previous statement which was "when you see all these things." "these" is also a referent word referring back to previous statements.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe logic shows that cherry picking a verse out of context will lead to misinterpretation as you have done.

Mat. 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

"This" is a reference word. In other words it refers back to something. The logical choice is to refer back to the most recent previous statement which was "when you see all these things." "these" is also a referent word referring back to previous statements.

No, I did not take my prophecy out of context. In fact in context it is clear that he is talking to the disciples and that some of them would still be alive when he came back. That was close to 2,000 years ago and he is not back yet. Do you want to go over Matthew 34? And remember, an excuse is not a refutation. "He could have possibly meant this very unlikely thing" would be a loss on your side. You need to go with what the Bible actually says.

 

[Firenze]

No, I did not take my prophecy out of context. In fact in context it is clear that he is talking to the disciples and that some of them would still be alive when he came back. That was close to 2,000 years ago and he is not back yet. Do you want to go over Matthew 34? And remember, an excuse is not a refutation. "He could have possibly meant this very unlikely thing" would be a loss on your side. You need to go with what the Bible actually says.

If Christians went with what the bible actually says there would be no reason for sites like this......

 

[Subduction Zone]

If Christians went with what the bible actually says there would be no reason for sites like this......

Shhh, don't say it too loudly. Christians tend to think that their own personal version of the religion is the only right version. From sect to sect the differences can be quite small. But they add up. As a result the religion goes from universalism to bat**** crazy Southern Baptists. From Mormons to Seventh Day Adventists. It is a true smorgasbord religion.

 

[Firenze]

Shhh, don't say it too loudly. Christians tend to think that their own personal version of the religion is the only right version. From sect to sect the differences can be quite small. But they add up. As a result the religion goes from universalism to bat**** crazy Southern Baptists. From Mormons to Seventh Day Adventists. It is a true smorgasbord religion.

I'm happy to ignore their differences, as they all believe in the lies told by the gospel authors in pretending that Jesus was the Messiah. Christianity is exploded once that Truth is known, and they all fail together.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Yes, like the one where he said that he would be back before all of the disciples had passed away.

He didn't fail in that prophecy. You just don't understand what he said.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Jesus was/is the Son of God not the Jewish Messiah. It's the Messianic prophecies that failed in part. Jesus knew that he could never fit the expectations of the Jewish Messiah so he left it to the Father to untangle the mess.

The Jews Messiah is MIA!

cOLTER, He was the Jewish messiah, most of them just missed him. The prophecies haven't failed. What has failed is man's understanding of the prophecies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He didn't fail in that prophecy. You just don't understand what he said.

No, it was quite clear what he said. Honest Christian theologians have openly admitted this.

You can't afford to understand what he said.