Prosecute Or Not?

[Revoltingest]

Hercules Transgender Teen Charged With Battery After Fighting Back Against Bullies « CBS San Francisco

HERCULES (CBS SF) — The case against a transgender teenager charged with misdemeanor battery after fighting back against alleged bullies in a Contra Costa County school might not go away.
Dan Cabral, Contra Costa County’s Senior Deputy District Attorney said he was not at liberty to talk about the case, but said he draws the line when a bullying victim takes the law into their own hands.

I vote against prosecution, given the circumstances of the fight, & the school's ability to better handle punishment & counseling.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

She shouldn't be prosecuted. Shoot, she's a hero. Lol. Good on her for standing up for herself.

Also, since when do schoolkids get charged with anything for fighting?! There were fights all the time at my schools, but no one was ever charged with anything. This is just weird.

 

[Reverend Rick]

This is so wrong

 

[Thana]

I dunno...
That's not a good enough reason for violence.

I think if you're defending yourself with your fists when you're being attacked with words,
You should be held accountable and without leniency.

And he's right, You can't pick and choose who should be allowed to be violent and who shouldn't.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I dunno...
That's not a good enough reason for violence.

I think if you're defending yourself with your fists when you're being attacked with words,
You should be held accountable and without leniency.

And he's right, You can't pick and choose who should be allowed to be violent and who shouldn't.

This wasn't some random event:

The petition by Valerie Poquiz says Jewlyes was taunted and bullied because of her gender identity. After one of her classmates spit gum in her face, Jewlyes, 16, sought help from the assistant principal, but the issue was not properly addressed, the petition states.


"On Nov. 15, 2013, Jewlyes was pushed over the edge," according to the petition. "Due to continued harassment, a fight ensued. Out of fear of physical violence, Jewlyes finally stood up for herself. Several girls who were tormenting my sister then physically attacked her. This was captured on video and shown on the news."


...


Jewlyes said what's happening to her isn't fair.

"I was getting picked on and bullied and it doesn't seem right that I'm getting charged for anything," she said. "If anything, it seems pretty messed up. I got badly injured from this incident because there were three people against one and it really affected me. I'm still emotional about it. I don't feel safe at school."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...istrict-attorneys-decision-charge-transgender

 

[Revoltingest]

I dunno...
That's not a good enough reason for violence.

I think if you're defending yourself with your fists when you're being attacked with words,
You should be held accountable and without leniency.

And he's right, You can't pick and choose who should be allowed to be violent and who shouldn't.

Prosecutors do have wide discretion. But they'll say they don't when it's easier than admitting one's choices.
I can agree that violence is generally wrong in response to words, but in a broken system which tolerates
abuse, a violent response becomes less & less inappropriate than in normal circumstance. Another matter
is the criminalization of kids' behavior, with higher costs, poor results, & permanent damage to the kids.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I wonder how many people who are big 2nd amendment supporters will say the person shouldn't have stood up for herself? There are those who disdain the idea that bullying should be stopped, when it's them against especially the LGBTQ community, but when they stand up and fight back, well, let's see what happens. I think I know how this is going to go.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder how many people who are big 2nd amendment supporters will say the person shouldn't have stood up for herself? There are those who disdain the idea that bullying should be stopped, when it's them against especially the LGBTQ community, but when they stand up and fight back, well, let's see what happens. I think I know how this is going to go.

I don't understand what you're getting at here.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I don't understand what you're getting at here.

Just ranting about people being hypocrites. Most of your 2nd amendment supporters are religiously Christian, and are also against bullying. Yet, when it's done against them, or at least people they agree with, they'll be quick to call foul. This is going to be interesting to follow.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just ranting about people being hypocrites. Most of your 2nd amendment supporters are religiously Christian...

In a majority Xian country, I'm not surprised.
But the 2nd is also popular with Jews & atheists I know....especially atheists.

...and are also against bullying. Yet, when it's done against them, or at least people they agree with, they'll be quick to call foul. This is going to be interesting to follow.

But I wouldn't be so quick to accuse people of hypocrisy.
We'll see. But I wonder what's up with the prosecutor?

 

[Quintessence]

Honestly, there's not enough information to make a good assessment here. Regardless of whether or not the charges are justified or not, I think it's worth examining the nature of how we regard crime in our culture.

This Dan Cabral fellow said in the video that he doesn't believe that words justify physical violence. As much as I understand this perspective, I have a problem with this cultural attitude. I was sparked to thinking about this recently through an article that came to my attention through the Wild Hunt Blog. You can read the article here, but I'm going to quote a small section of it below:

Sticks and stones may break my bones,
but words will never hurt me.

How many of you remember that little ditty? ********, I say. Having been on the receiving end of many a word, I have found that the hurt they leave behind is both greater and longer lasting than any physical pain that I have experienced.

In my country, we're so eager and ready to prosecute physical violence, yet what is really the worser of the two - verbal violence - is given much more latitude. I have a problem with that. In my mind, assuming the allegations of bullying are correct, the bullying is by far the greater crime here than physical violence. Unless you've gotten so violent that you've snapped someone's legs and put them in a wheelchair for life, scrapes and bruises heal. The damage of bullying? That's not so easy to ameliorate. Where are the bullies being charged? What are they being prosecuted with?

 

[dawny0826]

Hercules Transgender Teen Charged With Battery After Fighting Back Against Bullies « CBS San Francisco

I vote against prosecution, given the circumstances of the fight, & the school's ability to better handle punishment & counseling.

TransTeen Charged With Battery Following Schoolyard Altercation | Advocate.com

The aforementioned article answered some of the questions that I had after reading the article you posted. They didn't mention her age and if any of the girls were injured during the fight.

She's a minor (16 years old) and regardless as to who was hitting who in the video (I can't decipher whether or not she's the blonde or the one on the left)...all walked away from the fight without serious injury and the school intervened and disciplined.

We don't have a free card to put our hands on other people, regardless as to how horrible we're being treated. No one should be expected to endure harassment. When being cornered by three harassing indviduals, natural fight or flight kicks in.

I can't really make any direct statements regarding what actually conspired, based upon the video. Not enough footage, no insight as to how the fight transpired or even who, specifically, is at fault.

I do hope the charges are dropped and that the school system (as they appear to be doing) better addresses bullying.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Fighting should always be a last resort. Unfortunately, it is sometimes the only way to stand up for oneself. Add that to the fact that the LGBTQ community is already considered second class, or even sub-human, and you have a recipe for disaster. It took a war for African-Americans to have their rights. Hopefully it doesn't take one for the LGBTQ community.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I read the article and even watched the tape. Did I miss something? I didn't read anything where it said she initiated the fight and on the tape it clearly shows she was out numbered in the fight. So I don't understand why she's being charged.

 

[esmith]

I read the article and even watched the tape. Did I miss something? I didn't read anything where it said she initiated the fight and on the tape it clearly shows she was out numbered in the fight. So I don't understand why she's being charged.

Well there could be a couple of reasons
1. a CYA by the prosecutor
2. social standing of the attacked
and my favorite
Just plain dumb

 

[dust1n]

RAW: Cell phone video of Hercules High fight involving... | www.ktvu.com

Looking at the video, it seems that (I don't know is who, but I'm assuming the first punch was thrown from the person in question) the transgendered girl ran after throwing a punch or something, ran, and then was subsequently chased down and beaten by three girls. So, I'm really finding it hard to believe that the latter or anymore innocent of inciting violence than the girl who threw the first punch. It seemed to me like everyone pretty much engaged in an assault.

That being said... applying assault charges to teenagers seems like a very poor method of addressing the violence or making any sort of amends.

 

[Badran]

Like others indicated i don't think enough is shown to make any definitive judgement. That said, i think there are two main issues. One, the idea that physical violence as a response to verbal bullying is never acceptable, and two, the idea of legal consequences for the kid in question, especially despite there being no injuries as far as i can see.

For the first, i think it's a generally decent principle, but as always, reality often proves more complicated than one generic principle can handle. When you see someone being tormented for, say, months, and sometimes years (which i have seen), everyday, and being unable to do basic things at their school due to fear of being made a mockery of, you might feel a little differently about just how justified it might be for them to kick some *** in response. Especially when the grounds of them being bullied is something as sensitive as is the case here (which i assume is related, though it might be a faulty assumption).

For the second, i don't know what the history is in regards to cases like this in that area, so i can't judge whether or not the kid is being targeted, however in principle, i think if nobody can protect kids like that from such excessive torture then most certainly in my eyes, no one should dare try to punish them for protecting themselves. And usually, it's not even an intended act to stop the bullying so much as it's an act of desperation in the face of excessive abuse.

May be if there were serious injuries as a result, this would be more understandable. But as it is, at most the kid should have faced some basic school disciplinary action or something, and not the kid alone, but those who actually instigated the abusive environment in the first place.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

If she is charged then so should all the other girls. Are the other girls being charged? If not this is a witch hunt

 

[Revoltingest]

If she is charged then so should all the other girls. Are the other girls being charged? If not this is a witch hunt

You could say the prosecutor is on a "trans mission".


Someone had to say it sooner or later.