Prospective President Kamala Harris

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I would not make any accusations without evidence. And that is all I am asking you for, no more and no less.

But yes, you are correct. I am going to call Trump a liar when he says the 2020 election was stolen. And as evidence:

Several of Trump's close advisors and officials including Attorney General William Barr repeatedly informed him that there was no substantial evidence of widespread voter fraud. Barr publicly stated that the Justice Department had found no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud that would change the outcome of the election.

Numerous campaign staffers reportedly told Trump that he had lost the election. For instance, his campaign manager, Bill Stepien, testified that he advised Trump to accept the loss.

Trump's own campaign data analysts provided information showing that he was unlikely to win, especially after the results from key states came in.

Trump's legal team filed numerous lawsuits challenging the election results, but the vast majority of these were dismissed by judges, including many appointed by Trump himself. These dismissals often highlighted the lack of credible evidence for claims of widespread fraud.

The January 2, 2021, phone call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, where he pressured Raffensperger to "find" enough votes to overturn Biden's win in Georgia. Raffensperger and his team repeatedly told Trump during the call that his claims were based on false information.

Testimonies and documents presented by the House Select Committee investigating the January 6th Capitol attack have highlighted that many within Trump’s inner circle knew and informed him that the election was not stolen.


Here is a good book I recommend reading. A book written by the person hired by the Trump campaign to find evidence of fraud.

View attachment 94608

https://www.amazon.com/Disproven-Unbiased-Campaign-Improve-Elections/dp/1637632851

Now just like you knew me well enough to know that I would claim Trump was a liar, I know you well enough to predict that you will claim that all the evidence I have provided to support that claim is somehow still not enough.

But even you will have to admit that it is a great deal more evidence than you have provided to back up the claim you have made.

I have never claimed the 2020 election was stolen. I claimed Trump believes it was. There were shenanigans but I do not see enough evidence that it turned the election. I

Joe Biden, the person you claim unfit to be President has accomplished great things that show this is just not true.

The American Rescue Plan, the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs act, the Chips and Science act, The inflation Reduction act. These are all things that Biden has accomplished

So how has this legislation helped the economy?

Under Biden’s administration, the U.S. economy had added millions of jobs and the unemployment rate had fallen to pre-pandemic levels. The GDP growth has been robust, and consumer confidence has improved with the administration’s economic policies.

Unemployment rate is back to what it was under Trump and Obama. A large portion of the jobs were jobs filled after the Pandemic.

We do see record profits for businesses while real wages for most americans has gone down under Biden. Inflation under biden has never been as low as under Trump. Today it is 2.97%. The highest under Trump was 2.3% Highest for Biden was 7%. Housing is up 31% under Biden, Interest rates are high. It seems Bidenomics works for the wealthy but not for the average American.

You might not like it, but the evidence clearly shows that Biden is more than competent. More competent than Donald Trump has ever been at any point in his life.

Doing what? What has he accomplished in his 50 years of making a living off of the public?

No, you have not provided any evidence to back up either your claim that Biden is unfit, nor your claim that Harris has lied about it.

I have provided evidence just not evidence that convinces you.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I suppose you consider that Saint, anointed by God Trump has never ever lied - everything he says is gospel truth, eh? It's what I expect from members of the Trump cult.

Give it a rest. I never said Trump is a saint, is anointed by God or that he has never lied.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

... don't you feel any remorse for lying so blatantly?

About what?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Yes IMO they knew Biden mentality was declining but may have thought/hoped he could at least hang in there until after the election. They tried to make excuses(its just a cold) to cover it but in the end it was too obvious to try to cover anymore. They finally startd acknowledged it, they really had no choice.
So IMO Biden against his wishes dropped out when so many donors, colleagues, and friends where turning against him.

Yes, the covered up the fact he was unfit and 14 million people voted for him believing he was fit.

Now to Trump. Do you think he is mentally fit to be president for the next four years if he wins?
I don't at all.

Yes I do.

 

[LuisDantas]

About what?

So no.

 

[metis]

Not Harris, she kept saying he was good to go.

Again, presidents have advisors-- a lot of them.

Are you worried at all about Trump's mental stability?

 

[metis]

She too is mixed race.

And she has been called as such as possibly being the first black woman and also the first Asian to be president if she wins.

 

[fantome profane]

I claimed Trump believes it was.

And I just provided what any reasonable person would agree was ample evidence that this is not true. And you don't even attempt to rebut that evidence, you just pretend it isn't there.

Unemployment rate is back to what it was under Trump and Obama. A large portion of the jobs were jobs filled after the Pandemic.

We do see record profits for businesses while real wages for most americans has gone down under Biden. Inflation under biden has never been as low as under Trump. Today it is 2.97%. The highest under Trump was 2.3% Highest for Biden was 7%. Housing is up 31% under Biden, Interest rates are high. It seems Bidenomics works for the wealthy but not for the average American.

We could engage in a robust and substantive debate about Biden's policies and his record. But instead you want to engage in baseless conspiracy theories about some kind of cover up.

I have provided evidence just not evidence that convinces you.

You didn't provide evidence, you just claimed "it is obvious". That is what people say when they can't provide evidence.

 

[Pogo]

And I just provided what any reasonable person would agree was ample evidence that this is not true. And you don't even attempt to rebut that evidence, you just pretend it isn't there.

We could engage in a robust and substantive debate about Biden's policies and his record. But instead you want to engage in baseless conspiracy theories about some kind of cover up.

You didn't provide evidence, you just claimed "it is obvious". That is what people say when they can't provide evidence.

@Clizby Wampuscat claims it is not lying because he believes it, I offered him the alternative of being massively delusional but he did not respond.

 

[fantome profane]

@Clizby Wampuscat claims it is not lying because he believes it, I offered him the alternative of being massively delusional but he did not respond.

And neither alternative makes him fit to be President.

 

[averageJOE]

What can be unburdened by what has been!!

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

@Clizby Wampuscat claims it is not lying because he believes it

I doubt that Trump believes he won in 2020, but maybe. There are things he has said to others that suggest so, and many of hs advisors including Barr told him he lost. Also, the fake electors and referring to himself as 47, which implicitly acknowledges Biden as the 46th president. But asking for all of those recounts suggests that he might have thought that he won.

I think that most of the MAGA/Trump apologists posting on RF believe what they post. Likewise with the creationists and anti-vaxxers.

Just remember ...

And really, in the end, does it matter if it's a lie or a delusion? Not to me except as a matter of interest regarding how minds work and process information, which you might know by my posting to some of our most eccentric thinkers and writers on RF is an interest of mine. You've probably seen me tapping the glass to get a sense of whether some posters have cognitive defects or are trolling, which is essentially the same question.

 

[Wandering Monk]

What can be unburdened by what has been!!

What does that mean in the context of this discussion?

 

[LuisDantas]

@Clizby Wampuscat claims it is not lying because he believes it, I offered him the alternative of being massively delusional but he did not respond.

Trump strikes me as not sophisticated enough a thinker to understand that lying is a bad thing.

From all appearances, for all his life he was sheltered to such an unhealthy degree that, far as he personally knows, being dishonest is just the price that has to be paid for being someone.

That is truly tragic - and anyone on his or her right mind ought to refuse enabling him any further.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think that most of the MAGA/Trump apologists posting on RF believe what they post. Likewise with the creationists and anti-vaxxers.

Just remember ...

View attachment 94654

And really, in the end, does it matter if it's a lie or a delusion? Not to me except as a matter of interest regarding how minds work and process information, which you might know by my posting to some of our most eccentric thinkers and writers on RF is an interest of mine. You've probably seen me tapping the glass to get a sense of whether some posters have cognitive defects or are trolling, which is essentially the same question.

At this point, I am seriously wondering how alt-rights and far-rights justify their choice to vote to themselves.

If they are going to permanently claim intellectual irresponsibility, should they not declare themselves unfit to vote (and to serve office) as well?

 

[bobhikes]

My morning NYT email alerted me to the following piece in the Sacramento Bee:

Kamal Harris can beat Donald Trump and prove America is ready for a female president | Opinion​

the central question posed being: "But do Americans share enough disgust over Trump this year to forget their traditional misogyny when it comes to the top job?

We can expect more than enough sexist and misogynistic attacks (here as well as elsewhere) against "DEI Harris." Let's hope that this serves only to amplify the breadth and depth of the disgust over the MAGA-Project 2025 team.

Hillary won the popular vote and she was disliked by both sides I think she proved a woman could be elected president. Harris doesn't have the same amount of animosity as Hillary had and Trump has far more animosity so I'm pretty sure we will be electing our first female president unless she screws up massively.

 

[averageJOE]

What does that mean in the context of this discussion?

Yes.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Yes.

Right. Welcome to my iggy list.

 

[metis]

I doubt that Trump believes he won in 2020, but maybe.

Trump's sister and niece have said he cannot take defeat as he is so self-centered. It seems to me that he may suffer from narcissistic personality disorder: Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia

 

[Kathryn]

I think it's really cute when people think Kamala Harris has whatever it takes to beat Trump. Me, I am not voting for Trump or Harris and I don't live in a swing state so I will write some name or the other in, which won't matter but SOMEONE SOMEWHERE will see it.