klubbhead024
Active Member
Do you think that lawmakers have the legal right to make prostitution illegal?? If sex is legal, and selling things is legal, why isn't selling sex legal???
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Prostitution laws
- Thread starter klubbhead024
- Start date
Comprehend
Res Ipsa Loquitur
klubbhead024 said:
I think you ought to change your question. If you are talking about the U.S. Lawmakers, of couse they have the "legal right" article 1 of the U.S. constitution invests all legislative powers to the congress. game over. If you are asking if they have the moral right, now that is up for discussion...
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Not all powers are given to Congress. I forget the criteria and which article, and I don't have enough time to find it right now, but some powers are given to the state to decide.
I feel thier is no reason to illegalize prostitution. If the government feels it should be illegal, it should at least be a state decision.
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
klubbhead024 said:
You're not selling sex. People can have that on their own. What you're selling are women, and by saying it's okay to buy or rent women, you're saying that they're objects to be bought.
There are too many arguments on both sides for me to have a strong opinion about whether or not prostitution should be legal or illegal.
Zephyr
Moved on
When you hire somebody to mow your lawn, you aren't paying to have a nicely-cut lawn. You can do that on your own. What you're buying are people, and by saying it's okay to buy or rent people, you're saying they're objects to be bought.Feathers in Hair said:
Sorry, but I'm not sure that logic flies too well. You're either buying sex, or every time somebody is hired to do some work, they are being bought. I see little difference between prostitution and other jobs. Not something that appeals to me, but I see no reason why it should be illegal.
KingNothing
Member
I think law enforcement has this one figured out pretty well. Prostitution is illegal but rarely enforced. People for and against it seem happy enough with the situation.
Moni_Gail
ELIGE MAGISTRUM
I definitely think it should be legalized. One, it provides protection for those women. Two, they would fill out w2's and pay taxes. The Bunny Ranch for example:
Another thing, if they are mistreated they have to run to their 'pimp' or worse, suck it up. In this sense they would be able to call in law enforcement. They would get to keep most of their money instead of handing it over to some pimp.
It's also the oldest known profession. Sadly, the reason I see that it's illegal in the US is the puritan foundings of our country. Since when do we let someone else's religious ethics determine the rest of our lives when it doesn't harm anyone?
It could be put under zoning laws, similar to what porn shops and liquor stores do. Meaning, they would not be allowed near schools, churches, and so on.
If we allow the porn industry, which is essentially nothing more than prostitution on film, then how can we not allow prostitution?
- They are tested for STD's monthly
- It's in house and they are protected from abusive men and are assured payment
- They pay their share to the 'house' who pays their taxes for them.
Another thing, if they are mistreated they have to run to their 'pimp' or worse, suck it up. In this sense they would be able to call in law enforcement. They would get to keep most of their money instead of handing it over to some pimp.
It's also the oldest known profession. Sadly, the reason I see that it's illegal in the US is the puritan foundings of our country. Since when do we let someone else's religious ethics determine the rest of our lives when it doesn't harm anyone?
It could be put under zoning laws, similar to what porn shops and liquor stores do. Meaning, they would not be allowed near schools, churches, and so on.
If we allow the porn industry, which is essentially nothing more than prostitution on film, then how can we not allow prostitution?
KingNothing
Member
I completely agree with MoniGail. Unfortunately, the argument that "if you legalize it more people will do it" always wins. See drugs and contraception.
klubbhead024
Active Member
Feathers in Hair said:
You are absolutley selling sex. Sex in this term would be a service. You say I am buying women... then does that mean every time you pay for a service, you then own that person until the service is complete??? Next time you get an oil change, tell the guy that you bought HIM for 30 minutes.
CaptainXeroid
Following Christ
Are you talking about Cat House on HBO? I admit watching it a few times, & it's rather interesting.Moni_Gail said:
Frubals for a great post btw. I haven't done a US Code search, but unless there's a special provision allowing state law to supercede Federal law, it would seem to me that outlawing prostitution is not part of it since it is legal in parts of Nevada.
If it were put to a vote, I would vote to legalize prostitution for the reasons Gail mentioned. As for the question in the OP, I think comprehend nailed it.
Moni_Gail
ELIGE MAGISTRUM
CaptainXeroid said:Are you talking about Cat House on HBO? I admit watching it a few times, & it's rather interesting.
Yep! For a moment there I actually thought that since I had so much information about it that some would think I had worked there. :biglaugh: Thanks for the frubals!
CaptainXeroid said:
CaptainXeroid said:
It is state law. That's exactly why it's legal in Nevada.
ETA: I keep trying to change the quotes, but it's not allowing it.
Moni_Gail
ELIGE MAGISTRUM
d. said:
It was merely a sentence in a post with many other good points. My question is, why focus on that one? Why not dispute or agree with something you feel matters? Why waste the time to harp about it?
For me, it actually does make a difference. This is part of the human condition. It is not limited to specific eras, countries, societies, social classes, and so on. Man has lived with it for thousands of years worldwide. Some accept it, some turn a blind eye, and some attempt to erradicate it. No matter how much some may try to push their morals on the situation it's always going to be there. It's not physically harming someone.
This goes back to the 1920's and the US' prohibition laws. The government attempted to morally police it's citizens, which if you know the story didn't turn out too well. The black market ran amok with sales and the alcohol produced was not quality controlled in any way, such as bathtub gin and moonshine. Some people believe that governments can make better choices for us, but it wasn't a vision the founding fathers had when they created The Constitution. The U.S. government is designed mainly to be run by the people, which is in direct opposition to modern liberalism that insists it control people.
Again, the main point, the United States is rooted on freedom of speech, religion and trade. The first two are specifically mentioned early on within The Constitution. Those inalienable rights are not given to us by The Constitution, but are instead protected by it. So why violate the premise by prohibiting relations between consenting adults?
d. said:
0691055505
Have you also considered just doing a search. You won't find one thing to dispute that comment, yet thousands that will say just the same. I'm quite surprised you have yet to hear of it.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Too bad the "it's illegal but lot's of people do/use it anyways" part of the logic is left out.
d.
_______
i feel it does matter.Moni_Gail said:
like assassination, slave trade or rape. legalize?Moni_Gail said:
that something is 'part of the human condition' does not make it morally acceptable. and no, i don't care for 'puritanism'. i care about where to draw the line in regard to dehumanizing people. i care about that i don't want to live in a society where those who can't pay can be exploited for sexual gratification by those who can pay.
i care about the fact that most of the 'sex workers' in germany or the netherlands is trafficked from eastern europe or third world countries. that after legalizing prostitution in the netherlands child prostitution increased rapidly. i care about the fact that in the netherlands, 75% of the women in prostitution want to leave the industry.
sweden criminalizes the buyer and the pimp, not the prostitute. this is a good idea. criminalize the exploiter, not the exploited.
you're being criminally naïve.Moni_Gail said:
want something to read?
http://action.web.ca/home/catw/attach/CATW%20Comparative%20Study%202002.pdf
found it now. i'll check it out.Moni_Gail said:
actually it was pretty easy.Moni_Gail said:
Prostitution is often described as "the world's oldest profession." It has been thought prostitution (at least in the modern sense) cannot have emerged before the emergence of money, which can only have taken place after the emergence of several trades, and it has been claimed that - when counting out hunting - midwifery, or perhaps gardening or teaching, are really the world's oldest professions. However, prostitution in exchange for goods or services may have been common for many thousands of years and may date to early man. Additionally, prostitution has been noted in Bonobo chimpanzee behavior based around access to food and gifts of food, and in penguins in regard to access for suitable stones for nest building. Until the age of industrialization the world was basically agrarian, so goods and services were most often obtained by barter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution#History
so it's essentially a question of what we mean by "profession"...but more importantly : "so what"?.
no, i've heard it thousands of times. it says as little now as it always has.Moni_Gail said:
btw, let me throw out a question to anyone who's in favour of legalizing prostitution : would you feel comfortable with your family members selling their bodies? would you yourself 'take the opportunity'?
d.
_______
however, if we're talking about legalizing prostitution in the real world, the absolute majority of prostitutes are not people who 'physically enjoy' selling their bodies to men (most of the time) that could be practically anyone. legalizing prostitution in the netherlands, germany or victoria has not lead to this paradise of free choice and good treatment that you speak of. rather, it has been a gift to the pimps who are now considered legit businessmen, child prostitution and trafficking has gone up and ironically, illegal prostitution has also gone up. and the violence is consistent.Moni_Gail said:
http://action.web.ca/home/catw/attach/AUSTRALIAlegislation20001.pdf
The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women International (CATW) has conducted 2 major studies on sex trafficking and prostitution, interviewing almost 200 victims of commercial sexual exploitation. In these studies, women in prostitution indicated that prostitution establishments did little to protect them, regardless of whether they were in legal or illegal establishments. The only time they protect anyone is to protect the customers.
In a CATW 5-country study that interviewed 146 victims of international trafficking and local prostitution, 80% of all women interviewed suffered physical violence from pimps and buyers) and endured similar and multiple health effects from the violence and sexual exploitation (Raymond et al: 2002).
The violence that women were subjected to was an intrinsic part of the prostitution and sexual exploitation. Pimps used violence for many different reasons and purposes. Violence was used to initiate some women into prostitution and to break them down so that they would do the sexual acts. After initiation, at every step of the way, violence was used for sexual gratification of the pimps, as a form of punishment, to threaten and intimidate women, to exert the pimp's dominance, to exact compliance, to punish women for alleged violations, to humiliate women, and to isolate and confine women.
Of the women who did report that sex establishments gave some protection, they qualified it by pointing out that no protector was ever in the room with them, where anything could occur. One woman who was in out-call prostitution stated: The driver functioned as a bodyguard. You're supposed to call when you get in, to ascertain that everything was OK. But they are not standing outside the door while you're in there, so anything could happen.
CATW's studies found that even surveillance cameras in prostitution establishments are used to protect the establishment. Protection of the women from abuse is of secondary or no importance.
http://www.humantrafficking.com/humantrafficking/client/view.aspx?ResourceID=4158In a CATW 5-country study that interviewed 146 victims of international trafficking and local prostitution, 80% of all women interviewed suffered physical violence from pimps and buyers) and endured similar and multiple health effects from the violence and sexual exploitation (Raymond et al: 2002).
The violence that women were subjected to was an intrinsic part of the prostitution and sexual exploitation. Pimps used violence for many different reasons and purposes. Violence was used to initiate some women into prostitution and to break them down so that they would do the sexual acts. After initiation, at every step of the way, violence was used for sexual gratification of the pimps, as a form of punishment, to threaten and intimidate women, to exert the pimp's dominance, to exact compliance, to punish women for alleged violations, to humiliate women, and to isolate and confine women.
Of the women who did report that sex establishments gave some protection, they qualified it by pointing out that no protector was ever in the room with them, where anything could occur. One woman who was in out-call prostitution stated: The driver functioned as a bodyguard. You're supposed to call when you get in, to ascertain that everything was OK. But they are not standing outside the door while you're in there, so anything could happen.
CATW's studies found that even surveillance cameras in prostitution establishments are used to protect the establishment. Protection of the women from abuse is of secondary or no importance.
and here's the study they talk about(it's in my last post too).
why are you trying to push your morals on other people?Moni_Gail said:
good question. why do we allow the porn industry?Moni_Gail said:
