Protestant or Catholic

[spiritually inclined]

Are Episcopals/Anglicans a protestant church or the English branch of Catholicism? How much do the services in Episcopal churches resemble Catholic churches?

Are there differences in how Catholics and Episcopals celebrate the Eucharist?

James

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The Church of England and Episcopal Church are both members of the Anglican communion. This is a very large group of churches that comes together
in a synod under the leadership of the archbishop of Canterbury, and the Governorship of the Queen of England.
List of churches in the Anglican Communion can be found here...
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19306

On its foundation By Henry V111 You Would have found no difference in the Church or its theology with Catholics at the time, except that the pope was not recognised.
Henry remained theologically of a Catholic belief.

The changes were gradual under the influence of continental protestant churches who had broken away from Rome for Theological reasons.

To this day the services are very similar indeed to Catholic ones. this has become very apparent since the Catholics stopped using the Latin mass.
The words they now use in English, are almost identical to those historically used in the Church of England.

Over time and especially during the Commonwealth led by the Puritans The CofE became much more protestant in nature,
they did away with much of the imagery of the Roman church. On the restoration of the Monarchy many churches reverted to a more Roman style and belief.

To day the Anglican Church in England covers a very broad Range of practice under a single overall Dogma.
This ranges from very High Church (near Catholic) to very Low church ( near puritan), and every colour in between.

In some respects I have found The Church of England is nearer in sympathy to the Orthodox Church Than the Roman One...
This may have something to dowith the fact, that the ancient Catholic Church in England was based more on the Celtic church,( founded Prior to the year 200 )
which was monastic in organisation Rather than the See's of Bishops.

Married priests have Always been the norm in England ( as they once were in the Roman Church), and unlike most of the Roman church we were slow to change
and even quicker to revert on becoming independent.

The recent acceptance of Birth control, Abortion (frowned upon but accepted) Married priests, and the acceptance of Women Bishops.
has widened the gulf between the Roman and Anglican Churches
In comparison the differences in theology are minor. The main one being our understanding of the Host in the Eucharist.

In practice and theology we are unlike Calvinists or Lutherans. We base our selves more on traditional Worship than Theology.

There are some useful threads in the Anglican/Episcopal DIR Forum.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Thank you. You see, I am very attracted to Catholicism, though their rigid stance on some things like abortion, women clergy, birth control, and conformity on theological issues bothers me. I don't have a particular religion, though I want to find a church. I think the Episcopal church might be appealing because of the traditional worship as well as its diversity.

James

 

[lilithu]

Thank you. You see, I am very attracted to Catholicism, though their rigid stance on some things like abortion, women clergy, birth control, and conformity on theological issues bothers me. I don't have a particular religion, though I want to find a church. I think the Episcopal church might be appealing because of the traditional worship as well as its diversity.

James

Yeah, if I were Christian I would either be liberation Catholic or Episcopal. I would be a heretic theology wise, but can totally dig the worship/ritual.

UUs don't have much ritual.

Thanks for the info Terry!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Thank you. You see, I am very attracted to Catholicism, though their rigid stance on some things like abortion, women clergy, birth control, and conformity on theological issues bothers me. I don't have a particular religion, though I want to find a church. I think the Episcopal church might be appealing because of the traditional worship as well as its diversity.

James

Try it Is all I can say... You will either love it or hate it.
But remember the character of a church can change with both it's congregation and priest.
We Tried three when we moved here... But The first was going through the motions, it was like there was no one there... No spirit.
The last we tried we felt at home at once.... Rather more high church but every one was involved.

Just let yourself be led by God.

 

[Quiddity]

Thank you. You see, I am very attracted to Catholicism, though their rigid stance on some things like abortion, women clergy, birth control, and conformity on theological issues bothers me. I don't have a particular religion, though I want to find a church. I think the Episcopal church might be appealing because of the traditional worship as well as its diversity.

James

You aren't alone. There are Catholics that go to Mass everyday that struggle with the very same things you noted. Episcopalian sounds like it would be a good fit for you.

 

[spiritually inclined]

This is probably going to sound strange, but is agnosticism or atheism compatable with some liberal Christian churches?

James

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There are liberal Christians in many Denominations. How ever I don't think there is such a thing as A Liberal Christian Church.
Most are Just Heretical members of an existing church.

I would be considered a liberal member of the Anglican Church with Anglo-Catholic leanings.

Some churches will have nothing to do with Liberal Christians.

Difficulties in definition

Diversity of opinion is a central characteristic of liberal Christianity, and one which makes it difficult to define with precision. Liberal Christianity exists within many denominations throughout the Christian world, and is often described as 'modernism', though it would be more accurate to describe modernism as a movement within liberal Christianity, since not all liberal Christians are modernists. The American 'Christian Right' might describe it as the 'Christian Left', which is also something of a misnomer: such labels are readily applied by opponents of liberal Christianity, but its adherents see it as a much broader and more inclusive movement. Because of its relations to progressive thinking, liberal Christianity is often described as Progressive Christianity in an attempt to redefine it in a way that does not associate it with modernism, since postmodernist views are increasingly becoming part and parcel of liberal Christian discourse. It is even problematic to draw a distinction along theological lines, at least in terms of the individual, since many who would accept the label liberal Christian hold to a mix of conservative and liberal theological positions. There is also a distinction to be made between liberal Christianity and Christian liberalism: the former usually implies a liberal theological outlook, the latter a liberal political outlook. It is quite possible for someone to be liberal in their politics while at the same time holding strongly orthodox theological views. The reverse is also true, although few liberal Christians would in practice be likely to support the Religious Right.

The whole thread is here

 

[doppelganger]

When I attend rituals, they are usually at an Episcopal Church. First, because a very good friend of mine is a minister there. But also because Episcopalians that I know infrequently take a narrow anti-heresy approach to their faith. I am also very fond of the writings of retired Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong.

 

[doppelganger]

This is probably going to sound strange, but is agnosticism or atheism compatable with some liberal Christian churches?

James

Yes. If you are interested in non-theistic Episcopalians get a copy of Spong's Why Christianity Must Change or Die and A New Christianity For A New World.

 

[lilithu]

There are liberal Christians in many Denominations. How ever I don't think there is such a thing as A Liberal Christian Church.
Most are Just Heretical members of an existing church.

I would be considered a liberal member of the Anglican Church with Anglo-Catholic leanings.

Does that mean that you consider yourself a heretic, Terry? Just curious.

Do you not consider the Unitarians or the Universalists to be liberal Christian churches/denominations? (I'm not refering to UU, but to the denominations that gave rise to UU.) Tho it seems that if an entire denomination becomes liberal Christian, they then tend to either go on to become something other than Christian, or they cease to exist as a denomination as they get absorbed by others.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Does that mean that you consider yourself a heretic, Terry? Just curious.

Do you not consider the Unitarians or the Universalists to be liberal Christian churches/denominations? (I'm not refering to UU, but to the denominations that gave rise to UU.) Tho it seems that if an entire denomination becomes liberal Christian, they then tend to either go on to become something other than Christian, or they cease to exist as a denomination as they get absorbed by others.

Look at my religion and title makes it Pretty clear that I hold views that are Heretical to the Anglican Faith. This is not a problem to or for Anglicans as we are a broad church.

Unitarians consider them selves Christian but do not believe in the trinity in any form. So To me they are liberal Christians, though most other churches do not consider them Christians at all. as they do not believe Jesus was God. There are still Unitarian churches in the UK'

is the belief in the single personality of God, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (three persons in one God). It is the philosophy upon which the modern Unitarian movement was based, and, according to its proponents, is the original form of Christianity. Unitarian Christians believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as found in the New Testament and other early Christian writings, and hold him up as an exemplar. Adhering to strict monotheism, they maintain that Jesus was a great man and a prophet of God, perhaps even a supernatural creature, but not God himself. Unitarians believe in the moral authority, but not necessarily the divinity, of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian

Christian Universalists... are Christian And in as much they believe every one Goes to "heaven" I agree with them.
However there are Universalists who follow other faiths.

The UU's Are not Christian. but do have some Christian members

 

[lilithu]

Look at my religion and title makes it Pretty clear that I hold views that are Heretical to the Anglican Faith.

Oops, sorry.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Yes. If you are interested in non-theistic Episcopalians get a copy of Spong's Why Christianity Must Change or Die and A New Christianity For A New World.

How would atheistic or non-theistic Episcopalians view traditional worship, the Eucharist, Lent, Christmas, the Bible?

James

 

[lilithu]

Yes. If you are interested in non-theistic Episcopalians get a copy of Spong's Why Christianity Must Change or Die and A New Christianity For A New World.

I'm familiar with Bishop Spong's writings and it's never occurred to me to think of him as an atheist or even non-theist. (UUs love Spong since we have so few theologians ourselves.) He talks about God freely.

Are we operating under different interpretations of the word "theist"?

 

[spiritually inclined]

I am also under the impression that John Shelby Spong believes in God. He does not view God in traditional theistic terms -- a man in the sky -- but he seems to be along the lines of a panentheist.

James

 

[lilithu]

but he seems to be along the lines of a panentheist.

Yeah, baby!!

 

[doppelganger]

I am also under the impression that John Shelby Spong believes in God. He does not view God in traditional theistic terms -- a man in the sky -- but he seems to be along the lines of a panentheist.

James

Have you read his books? He very specifically talks about "God-experience" rather than "God" and like Tillich regards "God" as a symbol for something along the lines of the "ground of being", which would make him more of a pantheist than a panentheist, though I've never heard or read him claim either of those labels. He's far too sophisticated to fall into the "theism-atheism" dichotomy. Spong very specifically writes about Christianity without any supernatural element. That's non-theistic in my book, but those are all empty and pointless labels anyway. Other than empty semantics, what's the difference between a pantheist a non-theistic naturalist?

I suggest reading New Christianity, where Spong does indeed lay out a non-metaphysical, non-supernatural Christianity.

 

[lilithu]

He ... like Tillich regards "God" as a symbol for something along the lines of the "ground of being", which would make him more of a pantheist than a panentheist

How so?

 

[doppelganger]

How so?

It's explained in his book.