Protestant priesthood authority?

[Polaris]

Despite the fact that I believe proper governing priesthood authority was taken from the earth upon the death of the Apostles, I do believe that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches have the strongest cases for proper priesthood succession among all non-restorationist denominations. So my question is directed towards our protestant friends (by protestant I mean any who are non-RCC, non-EOC, and non-restorationist).

There is scriptural evidence that proper priesthood authority was established by Christ and given to the Apostles, and was passed on in successive fashion. If this is true, where does your priesthood authority originate?

I realize true priesthood authority ultimately originates from God, but how does your church claim rights to the priesthood, and how is that priesthood passed on, preserved, etc?

I don't intend for this to become a debate, I'm just curious how protestants view priesthood authority.

 

[Quiddity]

You are going to get as many answers as there are denominations. Some believe the priesthood is extended to all. Others recognize the hierarchy in the priesthood. It should be interesting.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

As victor says ... many denominations many answers....
There is a Problem for the Church of England as it derives its authority through two churches.. The Early Celtic Church which was already established here by the year 200 AD.
and secondly From the Roman Church established quite some time later in Canterbury. The Celtic Bishops eventually agreed to the authority of Rome.

Whilst there is some doubt about who ordained the first Celtic Bishop, this was clearly at a very early stage in the spread of Christianity and may be pre-Roman church..

Either way all Bishops and priests have come down in an unbroken chain since those earliest times. When the Church of England separated itself from Rome its Bishops continued this succession. We agree that Rome sees things some what differently as it does the schism with the Eastern orthodox. What we do not believe was that the succession could be broken.
We believe that this succession has continued throughout the entire Anglican Communion including the Episcopal Church in America.

 

[Special Revelation]

You are going to get as many answers as there are denominations. Some believe the priesthood is extended to all. Others recognize the hierarchy in the priesthood. It should be interesting.

The apparent first Pope is telling the church that all believers are a royal priesthood (including newborn babes in Christ). Authority rests with God through the Scriptures alone.

1 Peter 2

As Newborn Babes

1Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
2like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
3if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

As Living Stones

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For this is contained in Scripture:
"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
"THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
8and,
"A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE";
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

9But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

11Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
12Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
15For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
16Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
17Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
18Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.
19For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
20For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

Christ Is Our Example

21For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
22WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
23and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. 25For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

 

[Quiddity]

Polaris, would you like this thread moved?

It looks like it may just turn into a debate.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't intend for this to become a debate, I'm just curious how protestants view priesthood authority.

Victor Don't you think moving the thread would get in the way of answering the thread. and stop us finding out what the OP is asking for.
After all it is about what the churches say is their authority, that is important here Not what other churches may take issue with.

Other threads could easily be started to question and debate issues raised.

 

[Polaris]

Either way all Bishops and priests have come down in an unbroken chain since those earliest times. When the Church of England separated itself from Rome its Bishops continued this succession. We agree that Rome sees things some what differently as it does the schism with the Eastern orthodox. What we do not believe was that the succession could be broken.
We believe that this succession has continued throughout the entire Anglican Communion including the Episcopal Church in America.

So do you believe that true priesthood authority resides in both the Roman Catholic and Anglican churches?

If so how do you reconcile the notion of God-recognized authority in churches that profess potentially contradictory dogmas/doctrines/policies?

 

[Polaris]

Victor Don't you think moving the thread would get in the way of answering the thread. and stop us finding out what the OP is asking for.
After all it is about what the churches say is their authority, that is important here Not what other churches may take issue with.

Other threads could easily be started to question and debate issues raised.

Thanks Terry, I agree. While I do plan on questioning you beliefs to better understand you position, my intentions are not to debate you and your beliefs.

 

[Polaris]

The apparent first Pope is telling the church that all believers are a royal priesthood (including newborn babes in Christ). Authority rests with God through the Scriptures alone.

I'll ask you a similar question I asked Terry:

So do you believe that true priesthood authority resides in all Christian churches?

If so how do you reconcile the notion of God-recognized authority in churches that profess potentially contradictory dogmas/doctrines/policies?

Also what role do you believe the Apostles played in the early church?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In both the Catholic and Anglican Churches "Priestly Authority" is passed down during the Laying on of hands by a Bishop.
In Both Churches this has been continuous.
In the Anglican Church some links in the chain came through the Celtic Line and some Parallel links through the Roman line. The Roman Church accepted Celtic Bishops as being equal and having that authority. ( when they Joined there was no distinction between existing priests and Bishops.)

I read some where that there is active research going on into the Early Celtic Church.
as little is known about its earliest days except for a few names of Bishops a few Saints, but almost no details.

 

[Polaris]

In both the Catholic and Anglican Churches "Priestly Authority" is passed down during the Laying on of hands by a Bishop.
In Both Churches this has been continuous.
In the Anglican Church some links in the chain came through the Celtic Line and some Parallel links through the Roman line. The Roman Church accepted Celtic Bishops as being equal and having that authority. ( when they Joined there was no distinction between existing priests and Bishops.)

I read some where that there is active research going on into the Early Celtic Church.
as little is known about its earliest days except for a few names of Bishops a few Saints, but almost no details.

So Catholic and Anglican churches view and honor each others priesthood as recognized by God?

Do Anglicans recognize Papal authority?

For all intents and purposes are Anglicans and Catholics the same?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

The apparent first Pope is telling the church that all believers are a royal priesthood (including newborn babes in Christ). Authority rests with God through the Scriptures alone.

1 Peter 2

As Newborn Babes

1Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
2like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
3if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

As Living Stones

4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For this is contained in Scripture:
"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
"THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
8and,
"A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE";
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

9But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

11Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
12Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
15For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
16Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
17Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
18Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.
19For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
20For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

Christ Is Our Example

21For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
22WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
23and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. 25For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

I will respond to this if the thread is moved to Debate.

 

[Polaris]

I will respond to this if the thread is moved to Debate.

Just start a new debate thread to focus on the specific issue you'd like to address.
I think it would make for an interesting debate.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So Catholic and Anglican churches view and honour each others priesthood as recognized by God?

Do Anglicans recognize Papal authority?

For all intents and purposes are Anglicans and Catholics the same?

No, we do not, we accept that they are indeed priests but not of our church. You must be licensed By a bishop to hold authority in his See.
Nor do they accept Our priest directly into their church though they do have quite a lot of our ex priests... but they need to be re-ordained.

I have attended services where both Anglican and Catholic Priests have taken part.

Anglicans do not accept Papal authority and has not done so since Henry V111 declared himself as head of the church. Though this is one point that the church would not have too much trouble accepting. There are other things, that are more of a problem. women priests and Bishops, married priests, Abortion, homosexuality,contraception and The nature of the Host during communion service

There is actually more about the two denominations that are the same than are different. To an outsider you would find it very difficult to tell which service is which.
In general the robes are the same the order of service is the same and even the words spoken are mostly identical. the one difference is that is noticeable is that very few of us sign or genuflect.( though some do)

 

[Quiddity]

Thanks Terry, I agree. While I do plan on questioning you beliefs to better understand you position, my intentions are not to debate you and your beliefs.

Ok...just note, that if this thread starts going south, all posts that intend to debate will be deleted.

 

[Polaris]

Ok...just note, that if this thread starts going south, all posts that intend to debate will be deleted.

That's fine. However, I do plan on asking follow-up questions, some of which may be quite direct. My intention isn't to debate, but to come to a clear understanding of their beliefs concering authority. If you perceive my questions to be too probing then I would rather you move the thread to a debate forum than simply delete my post. I do not intend on providing counter arguments to their statements, just questions for further clarification of their beliefs.

 

[Polaris]

No, we do not, we accept that they are indeed priests but not of our church. You must be licensed By a bishop to hold authority in his See.

What authority do these non-Anglican priests hold in your view? In what sense are they priests if you view them as holding no authority in their See? Are they viewed as bearers of true priesthood authority?

Anglicans do not accept Papal authority and has not done so since Henry V111 declared himself as head of the church. Though this is one point that the church would not have too much trouble accepting.

By what authority did Henry become head of the church?

 

[Quiddity]

That's fine. However, I do plan on asking follow-up questions, some of which may be quite direct. My intention isn't to debate, but to come to a clear understanding of their beliefs concering authority. If you perceive my questions to be too probing then I would rather you move the thread to a debate forum than simply delete my post. I do not intend on providing counter arguments to their statements, just questions for further clarification of their beliefs.

Intention noted. If there is in fact a post in question, we'll let you know. Just try not to phrase the question is such a way as to invite debate.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What authority do these non-Anglican priests hold in your view? In what sense are they priests if you view them as holding no authority in their See? Are they viewed as bearers of true priesthood authority?

We certainly see Catholic priests as holding authority of their own flocks, Just not Ours.
we do however accept a person Christened or married by their Priests to be a valid Baptism or marriage. so there is some recognition of their authority.

I personally have no trouble accepting a Catholic priest in any way whatsoever.

By what authority did Henry become head of the church?

by the Divine right of Kings to rule...It was believed that kings were ordained by God to rule ( as is demonstrated in the coronation service even to day, when they are anointed with oil by the arch bishop.. Henry pushed this a little further than previous kings, though none of them would have denied him the right. he was not a priest But Governor of the Church of England. The head of the Church is the Arch Bishop of Canterbury.

By extension and agreement, the arch Bishop and Queen hold the positions of head and Governorship of the whole Anglican Communion including those in America.

 

[Polaris]

We certainly see Catholic priests as holding authority of their own flocks, Just not Ours.
we do however accept a person Christened or married by their Priests to be a valid Baptism or marriage. so there is some recognition of their authority.

I personally have no trouble accepting a Catholic priest in any way whatsoever.

How about concerning the establishment/clarification/interpretation of doctrinal truths? Do you view both Catholic and Anglican leaders as authorized to provide such? If so what if there arise discrepencies regarding doctrines between the two churches? In those cases is the Catholic leadership seen as less authorative? You accept their baptisms, but do you accept their "authorative" interpretation of scripture?