Prove Magic?

[1137]

Not according to the definition YOU provided.

Are you kidding me?

I said "If something is not natural, it would definitionly be supernatural. It's something "contrary to the ordinary course of nature" that is "attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature"."

Here are the definitions.

su·per·nat·u·ral
ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

un·nat·u·ral
ˌənˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective

1. contrary to the ordinary course of nature; abnormal.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Are you?

Last time i checked if your not Muslim you could go there.

In 1990 I volunteered for a solo suicide mission to destroy the apartheid South African Govt,
to wage a one man unarmed war on the Nazis (Nats as we called them)
I was in hell for 3 days.
Then the govt collapsed, and after 8 days
I was free.

Since then I cannot fear anything,
and Angels have helped me numerous times,
I still get hell from time to time for what I did.
And for what I almost had to do and
for what I would do again if I had to,
but grace has stayed my hand because
each time I was ready to smite them if God was willing.

I have been celibate for many years as the enemies of God
would try to destroy me through any offspring I might have.

I feel so free.
I laugh at everything.

I have seen the other side.
This world is the other side.
If we die to make the world a better place
then we incarnate into a better world next lifetime.

Selah

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Are you kidding me?

I said "If something is not natural, it would definitionly be supernatural. It's something "contrary to the ordinary course of nature" that is "attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature"."

Here are the definitions.

su·per·nat·u·ral
ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

un·nat·u·ral
ˌənˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
adjective

1. contrary to the ordinary course of nature; abnormal.

So seeing as though dark energy is not understood.
Would that make it supernatural?

 

[1137]

So seeing as though dark energy is not understood.
Would that make it supernatural?

No, but if something is unnatural it must also be supernatural.

 

[EtuMalku]

No, but if something is unnatural it must also be supernatural.

I'm trying to side with you but . . . there's a reason why there are two words with different meanings
Unnatural and Supernatural do not mean the same thing

 

[1137]

I'm trying to side with you but . . . there's a reason why there are two words with different meanings
Unnatural and Supernatural do not mean the same thing

No, just like squares and rectangles are not the same thing, but all squares are rectangles.

 

[EtuMalku]

No, just like squares and rectangles are not the same thing, but all squares are rectangles.

"Supernatural" is suggestive of something that is intangible or otherworldly, beyond scientific understanding. Meanwhile "unnatural" implies the state of something being artificial or abnormal.

You seem to be interested in Setian philosophy, have you read Dr. Aquino's writings concerning what is 'unnatural' ?

 

[1137]

"Supernatural" is suggestive of something that is intangible or otherworldly, beyond scientific understanding. Meanwhile "unnatural" implies the state of something being artificial or abnormal.

You seem to be interested in Setian philosophy, have you read Dr. Aquino's writings concerning what is 'unnatural' ?

Indeed. I think Aquino would agree that as the isolate intelligence is unnatural, it works through methods that are "attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature." This force being Set/Satan.

I disagree with him on life itself being unnatural though.

 

[1137]

Actually I think I've convinced myself that magic can be defined as supernatural. Kudos to the OP for that at least.

 

[Acim]

That is not what science is trying to be.

You're right, I was probably giving it too much credit.

 

[Acim]

Science claims to root from logic, not be the sole user of it.

But it uses magic/faith to substantiate it's own self.

Not like science has ever spoken to the key fundamental questions that philosophy wrestles with. Science just uses assumptions to bypass those existential issues. If you can accept that as okay, then perhaps you can accept why any other group would use assumptions to sound like it is 'reasonable, logical.'

 

[Acim]

Yes, but that which is unnatural is not necessary supernatural like you where claiming.

What would be an example of something that is unnatural? I'm always up for that inquiry being answered.

I think anything that is truly unnatural (to physical existence) would be supernatural, but I'll await your examples to help gain or lessen confidence in that assertion.

 

[1137]

What would be an example of something that is unnatural? I'm always up for that inquiry being answered.

I think anything that is truly unnatural (to physical existence) would be supernatural, but I'll await your examples to help gain or lessen confidence in that assertion.

What about the creation of technology in order to create a massive dam, harness a river, and create power?

 

[Acim]

"Supernatural" is suggestive of something that is intangible or otherworldly, beyond scientific understanding. Meanwhile "unnatural" implies the state of something being artificial or abnormal.

I've heard the claim of unnatural meaning artificial, but this would then mean that humans are unnatural. Going by this rigid definition for unnatural (that I find highly debatable), then scientific understandings/method would be (at the least) unnatural, and plausibly supernatural. Seemingly, a conundrum for science. But I'm sure it would just overlook it like all things philosophical that it tends to overlook. So, it can continue the (unnatural) voodoo it does.

 

[Acim]

What about the creation of technology in order to create a massive dam, harness a river, and create power?

All natural to physical existence. All found/existing in nature. I would be surprised if you could name anything physical that I would later claim, "oh, okay that is unnatural."

Have only had this discussion umpteen dozen times. Usually never gets resolved through rational discussion. If what humans make is unnatural, then humans are not natural.

Given that we are unaware of other beings harnessing the creative power humans have, then if artificial is unnatural it would plausibly be supernatural. Would help if we could observe nature harnessing the creative power(s) humans take for granted. As we do observe humans doing this everyday, then it just blows my mind to call it unnatural. But as long as that's the thinking on the table, then I think there is case to be made for considering (all of) it supernatural. Wanna back off of that claim? Then bring rationality to the table and be sure it stays logically consistent with what unnatural actually means.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

No, but if something is unnatural it must also be supernatural.

All I'm saying is that supernatural is a matter of perspective.
Chemistry during the dark ages was effectively supernatural.
The word unnatural simply means 'unaffected by people'.

 

[Kueid]

that's why I said earlier to the OP to pursue what's magic before anything, that's the first real problem every practitioner encounter. When you don't know what magic is you can't reach it. This thread is the proving of this..