Proving Hell and philosophy of it.

[TagliatelliMonster]

Another proof, is if the further we praise, magnify, and glorify goodness in humans, the further we see it's opposite, the evil, as deserving God's wrath. What is meant by evil is of course, not trivial sins here and there, or slips out of weakness or heedless moves out of desires, but a perpetual state where one is with the oppressors, and falsehood or fails to recognize goodness and it's proper path for life out of envy and hate towards the truth and God's chosen and his light.

This is what is meant by opposite. Again, this thread is not about proving God or his Messengers, it's about given they exist, can we prove hell is rational to believe.

Showing that "evil" (that is to say: immoral behaviour) exists, does nothing towards proving a "hell".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

the question is, given there is a good and evil metaphysically beyond just our physical brains and concepts and emotions,

How is that a "given"?

This makes no sense at all.
Evil is not an entity. You can use it as a noun symbolically, but It's really an adjective. It's a label used to classify behaviour.

If there is nobody to engage in evil actions, then the very concept of "evil" doesn't even make any sense.
Like talking about "depth" in a 2d world.

what should be the result of choosing evil side as opposed to the good side.

Here, you're not talking alluding to facts - which you would need to do if your goal is to prove things objectively.
Instead, you're talking about opinion and personal preferences.

Mere opinion and personal preferences are not the way to "prove" anything objectively.

The topic is not about whether God exists or Messengers or Angels exist, all that, can have it's own proofs.

To be fair... it can't, because these are all unfalsifiable claims. They can't have proofs (or even just evidence) by definition.

But when you read Quran, for example, if it gives a proof for the day of judgment, it's saying given God exists, this a proof for the day of judgment.

The quran is a collection of claims. Any proof (or evidence) for those claims must necessarily come from other sources, or you end up in a circular argument.

Sounds like your "proof" really is nothing more or less then something akin to "The quran says it, I believe it, that settles it"

If it gives a proof for Messengers, it's saying given God exists, this a proof for Messengers. And there is of course proofs for God and his existence and Oneness, so you have to put everything in it's place.

"of course"? Not even remotely. There are no proofs for any gods whatsoever. Not the muslim god, not the christian god, not the norse gods, not the ...<insert any gods ever claimed by mankind>.

This is saying, given we accept the spiritual unseen world and nature of good and evil, and God and Angels and Messengers, can we prove hell is a rational thing to believe in?

In other words:
"Given the quran is true, we can conclude that the quran is true".


There's that circularity I mentioned earlier....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Believing in liars is a choice.

No, it's not.
No sincere belief is a choice.

You can easily prove this to yourself...

Try to "choose" to sincerely believe right here, right now, that Santa Claus is real. Or that Allah doesn't exist, but that Thor and Odin do.

If you are honest with yourself, you'll realise that you can not do this. Not sincerely. You could say you do. You could claim you do. But you'ld just be lying. Because you can't do so. You can't sincerely make arbitrary choices about what you are going to believe or not. That's just not how the psychology of belief works. It's that simple.

You thinking there is no way to know truth or choose to believe it, is because you believe there is no proofs or insights that prove it clearly. I believe the truth can be proven clearly and hence, when people, reject it or don't care to know the truth, and side with the oppressors, they are responsible over the oppression.

You seem to be stuck in some serious black and white thinking.
It's clear that you never really thought this stuff through.

No, not all truths can be known or proven. There are plenty of things we will never know, simply because there is no evidence left behind to study, or not enough evidence.

As for "truth" about this god you believe in, that can by definition never be known as it is an unfalsifiable claim.

Knowledge and belief, are not the same thing.

Lost lives and oppression is not something God takes lightly and there will be a day of vengeance like no other.

So you believe.