Psalm 110: The most quoted psalm in the NT.

[BilliardsBall]

Nah.

"Nah" isn't a refutation. We Jews can do better.

How is the coming Messiah a priest forever according to Melchizedek, do you think?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

"Nah" isn't a refutation.

It wasn't intended as one.

We Jews can do better.

I find your sentence to be doubly pretentious.

How is the coming Messiah a priest forever according to Melchizedek, do you think?

I am not sure what it means (although Rashi's take on עַל־דִּ֝בְרָתִ֗י is interesting). I am, however, sure that I have zero interest in engaging you on the subject.

 

[rosends]

So we can begin by agreeing that these events are set in heaven, at the throne of God.

Well can agree that that is one of the ways of looking at it, sure.

If Abraham is seen at the right hand of God in heaven, how would he have arrived there? We know from scripture that he died and was buried. Does a dead man sit at the right hand of God?

If we are talking about eternal souls (though, in fact, there is a widespread understanding of the verse that the term "sit at my right hand" is metaphorical) then it makes sense for Abe to be in God's presence even though he has died, bodily. Of course, since another way of understanding this has nothing to do with heaven, his death is not related.

It takes resurrection (or translation) to make the transition from earth to heaven. When, therefore, was Abraham resurrected?

Actually, it takes resurrection to make the transition from heaven to earth, not earth to heaven. That takes (generally) death.

 

[Redemptionsong]

"Nah" isn't a refutation. We Jews can do better.

How is the coming Messiah a priest forever according to Melchizedek, do you think?

Hi BilliardsBall,
What is your take on Psalm 110? Do you read Hebrew?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Other important conclusions can be drawn from this scripture. For those of the Bahai faith, it is clear that the Son of man is to be received into heaven until the ‘time of restitution of all things’. The claim that the Messiah (or equivalent) has already returned does not correspond with this description of the ‘restitution of all things’ [see Acts 3:21].

The Bab, who is also the Lamb fulfilled Acts 3:21, the Bab was the Gate, the Elijah that opened the way for the 'Day of God.

Pslam 110, is just as valid for the Messages given by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Wouldn't Psalms 110:1 indicate whoever this 'lord' is, is not YHWH? Ie if Jesus is this 'lord,' he's not God.

In the King James at Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
The LORD in ALL Upper-Case Letters stands for LORD God YHWH where we find the Tetragrammaton.
The Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus. No tetragrammaton (YHWH) applied to Lord Jesus.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........If we are talking about eternal souls (though, in fact, there is a widespread understanding of the verse that the term "sit at my right hand" is metaphorical) then it makes sense for Abe to be in God's presence even though he has died, bodily. Of course, since another way of understanding this has nothing to do with heaven, his death is not related.
Actually, it takes resurrection to make the transition from heaven to earth, not earth to heaven. That takes (generally) death.

Just as Adam became a living soul (Gen.2:7) and at death Adam became a dead soul, a lifeless soul or person.
Adam went from non-life, to life and returned back to non-life - Gen. 3:19
A person can't 'return' to a place he never was before.
Adam simply 'returned' to where he started - the dust of the ground.
The soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20.
So, No eternal death-proof soul, and as with Adam No post-mortem penalty, and No double jeopardy in death for anyone.
ALL the resurrections both OT & NT (except for Jesus) were happy-and-healthy physical resurrections.

As far as Psalms 110:5 I find that corresponds to Psalms 16:8.
See also Revelation 3:21

 

[PruePhillip]

There are more NT references to Psalm 110 than to any other psalm.
Does Psalm 110 convince you that Christ is Lord?

Does it convince? Not many people, at least, not in these days where people are probably more likely to be watching porn than reading scripture.
But it's one I love - God said to my Lord. There's a time period involved here, 'until' .....
Another interesting one, probably the most Christ centric Psalm is 22.
Thanks for your work here...

 

[PruePhillip]

No. Not at all.

Not even a little.
Thanks for asking though.

But the Jews couldn't answer Jesus' question - THAT should be a concern.
Like the suffering person in Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 - it isn't David and it isn't Israel because this suffering person will both die and reign over the nations.

 

[PruePhillip]

I understand what the Christian idea is. What I'm saying is that Christian idea is contradicted by the Psalm. The 'lord' is not YHWH in that passage. They are distinct.

There's Lord and there's YHWH. There's two entities here, and a passage of time involved before the Lord reigns over enemies.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Bab, who is also the Lamb fulfilled Acts 3:21, the Bab was the Gate, the Elijah that opened the way for the 'Day of God.

Pslam 110, is just as valid for the Messages given by the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

Hi Tony,
Why do you think there was need for further messengers after the Holy Spirit was promised and received?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hi Tony,
Why do you think there was need for further messengers after the Holy Spirit was promised and received?

I see God sends the Messengers so we can find and embrace the Holy Spirit. That is God's Covenant, that we will not be left alone to our selves.

There is no man that receives this Spirit, but the ones whom God chooses to be the Messengers. Then they are born of the Holy Spirit, and infuse the world with it. They are not men like us.

We have a chance in each age to accept and then be born again into that Spirit.

Regards Tony

 

[Redemptionsong]

Does it convince? Not many people, at least, not in these days where people are probably more likely to be watching porn than reading scripture.
But it's one I love - God said to my Lord. There's a time period involved here, 'until' .....
Another interesting one, probably the most Christ centric Psalm is 22.
Thanks for your work here...

Thanks for your supportive words.

Another thing l noticed recently was the number of references to the psalms found in the short book of Jonah. Why is this? Is it because the psalms bring us close to the heart of God, and to his Spirit? Of course, Jesus tells us that Jonah acts as a sign to his own entombment [Matthew 12:38-41].

 

[Redemptionsong]

I see God sends the Messengers so we can find and embrace the Holy Spirit. That is God's Covenant, that we will not be left alone to our selves.

There is no man that receives this Spirit, but the ones whom God chooses to be the Messengers. Then they are born of the Holy Spirit, and infuse the world with it. They are not men like us.

We have a chance in each age to accept and then be born again into that Spirit.

Regards Tony

The NT teaches that the Holy Spirit is now available to all who repent and believe in Jesus Christ as Lord. What can new 'messengers' add that is not already available?

 

[Left Coast]

There's Lord and there's YHWH. There's two entities here, and a passage of time involved before the Lord reigns over enemies.

Sure, so if there are two entities, and one is YHWH and the other is someone else, then if the someone else is Jesus, Jesus isn't YHWH.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The NT teaches that the Holy Spirit is now available to all who repent and believe in Jesus Christ as Lord. What can new 'messengers' add that is not already available?

It is indeed 'Christ', the 'Annointed One' that is Lord, they are the Messengers, the 'Self of God', the Messenger chosen by God and given the Name and attributes of God. It is only by Faith in the Messenger, which enables us to follow the guidance and commandments, that we have access to the Holy Spirit (Being born again). Otherwise we act and think from our own vain imaginings.

A Messenger gives the Laws suited to the age and people. In this age, which is the promised 'Day of God', that Message and the laws are global, for all humanity, we have a chance in this day, the day of Judgement, to be born again.

"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."
(“Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh”, p. 286) [6]

Jesus Christ promised the day when the Father would be us, wipe away our tears and guide us unto all truth and that day is here. That was the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

That day, the day where God fulfilled the promise of all scriptures was not available in the past, it has been available since 1844.

The Thief came, humanity is still in a strange sleep.

Spoiler: Do ye know in what cycle ye are created

"Do ye know in what cycle ye are created and in what age ye exist?
"This is the age of the Blessed Perfection and this is the time of the Greatest Name! This is the century of the Manifestation, the age of the Sun of the Horizons and the beautiful springtime of His Holiness the Eternal One!
The earth is in motion and growth; the mountains, hills and prairies are green and pleasant; the bounty is overflowing; the mercy universal; the rain is descending from the cloud of mercy; the brilliant Sun is shining; the full moon is ornamenting the horizon of ether; the great ocean-tide is flooding every little stream; the gifts are successive; the favors consecutive; and the refreshing breeze is blowing, wafting the fragrant perfume of the blossoms. Boundless treasure is in the hand of the King of Kings! Lift the hem of thy garment in order to receive it.
If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season shall we wait and for what other time shall we look?
This is the time for growing; the season for joyous gathering! Take the cup of the Testament in thy hand; leap and dance with ecstasy in the triumphal procession of the Covenant! Lay your confidence in the everlasting bounty, turn to the presence of the generous God; ask assistance from the Kingdom of Abhá; seek confirmation from the Supreme World; turn thy vision to the horizon of eternal wealth; and pray for help from the Source of Mercy!
Soon shall ye see the friends attaining their longed-for destination and pitching their tents, while we are but in the first day of our journey. This period of time is the Promised Age, the assembling of the human race to the “Resurrection Day” and now is the great “Day of Judgment.” Soon the whole world, as in springtime, will change its garb. The turning and falling of the autumn leaves is past; the bleakness of the winter time is over. The new year hath appeared and the spiritual springtime is at hand. The black earth is becoming a verdant garden; the deserts and mountains are teeming with red flowers; from the borders of the wilderness the tall grasses are standing like advance guards before the cypress and jessamine trees; while the birds are singing among the rose branches like the angels in the highest heavens, announcing the glad-tidings of the approach of that spiritual spring, and the sweet music of their voices is causing the real essence of all things to move and quiver..."

All IMHO

Regards Tony

 

[Redemptionsong]

Sure, so if there are two entities, and one is YHWH and the other is someone else, then if the someone else is Jesus, Jesus isn't YHWH.

I hope you don't mind me answering this accusation!

To my understanding, the Spirit of the Father (YHWH) was in Jesus in full measure [John 3:34]. The soul of Jesus was one with the Father's Spirit. Therefore, it is consistent and reasonable to talk about Christ as the Spirit of God dwelling amongst men on earth, or being 'God with us'.

 

[Left Coast]

I hope you don't mind me answering this accusation!

To my understanding, the Spirit of the Father (YHWH) was in Jesus in full measure [John 3:34]. The soul of Jesus was one with the Father's Spirit. Therefore, it is consistent and reasonable to talk about Christ as the Spirit of God dwelling amongst men on earth, or being 'God with us'.

I've already addressed this. I know what your doctrines tell you. But that isn't what the Psalm says.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Psalm 110:1-4 (KJV)
‘The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.’

I came upon another thought last night while reading about passages on the Bible about the promise of the end of ages.

Jesus Christ offered that Elijah always comes first. Thus for the 'Day of God' the "Dreadful Day of the Lord" this was offered.

Malachi 4:5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.

So in Psalm 110 we have, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." We have 2 x Lords.

Many Bible verses talk in the same manner where at the end of ages there are Two people. In this passage it is both Lords, in others it is a Lamb and the Lord. There are many varied references.

The rest I offer is IMHO.

This is the Bab and Baha'u'llah. In this age the Bab was a Lamb, was Elijah and also came as the Lord (Messenger) and Baha'u'llah came as the Lord of Lords.

There is much written on this in the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

 

[Redemptionsong]

I've already addressed this. I know what your doctrines tell you. But that isn't what the Psalm says.

To my understanding, Psalm 110 tells us that there is a mediator standing between God the Father and mankind. David represents the best of mankind, yet even he is shown to be a sinner by comparison with the one who sits at the right hand of God in heaven.