Put God on trial!

[InChrist]

It doesn't invalidate any gods. It invalidates what many Christians claim their God to be.


And we often see this kind of excuse for God. But further pondering on my example is if God wanted to take this little girl why put her through nearly two years of pain when she is way too young to understand it? Why put the parents and family under that sort of stress and emotional agony? It's torture. There's no good heartwarming lesson from this. It's just an excuse that Christians create to make their own belief sound justified.


But you aren't an all knowing being, so you could be mistaken about God. It may not exist as you imagine. It might actually be evil and you have been duped.


But by your own beliefs you are being foolish to think you know there is a God despite what we observe in reality contradicts the ideal you believe in. To not be foolish you should admit your belief in God is questionable, and that putting a child through agony is not an act a loving being would do.

If my beliefs were simply made up in my own mind and imagination, yes they would be very questionable. That’s what my spiritual ideas were before I was saved by Christ and understood the need for God’s revelation through the scriptures to have any ability to comprehend the truth about God.
This is a fallen world and bad things happen to everyone, sadly even children... all due to the damaging impact of human sin on upon the entire planet. According to the scriptures, God created the earth and it was beautiful and good. Humans were given dominion. What we see is what we’ve caused. Even God Himself who came in the Person of Jesus Christ was not immune, nor did He distance Himself from suffering, but fully experienced it. The point is this world where sin, pain and suffering occur and hurts everyone in one way or another is temporal. In the big scheme of things, time is short. Now is the time and opportunity to decide; do you want to live in a sin-free, pain-free, death-free eternal world forever or not? God is not going to force anyone to live in such a world. A loving Being gives people real freedom and the opportunity to know and respond to real love because eternity isn’t short.

 

[Spiderman]

I know that satan is very, very incredibly talented and experienced at twisting the scriptures. I’ve noticed that you do an amazing and often detailed job of scriptures twisting. You are very good at it ( which is very dangerous). Although, while satan is smooth at it, you are often erratic. It’s obvious to me who is messing with your mind.
That’s why I think it’s more important to pray for you, than to argue with you. If you truly want to know the love of God and be free in His will, then I hope you will find freedom. At this point I think you have to make that choice.

Thank you for your prayers! I do believe prayers have power , even from non Christians.

However, knowing what course to take in life, how to protect loved ones, which woman to marry, how to avoid accidentally killing someone behind the wheel or operating machinery at work, learning how to properly deal with persecution, and deal with manipulative people and criminals, knowing what to major in at college, knowing the correct job, and many forms of common sense, the answer doesn't come from Scripture.

Neither does God provide those answers, because I have asked thousands of times for well over a decade!

I know countless atheists who would accept God with open arms. To them, it feels like God doesn't care about them personally, because he fails to leave signs or evidence that he is helping them, or cares about them.

Clear answers are not available. Confusion is in abundance! That is on God!

 

[InChrist]

Thank you for your prayers! I do believe prayers have power , even from non Christians.

However, knowing what course to take in life, how to protect loved ones, which woman to marry, how to avoid accidentally killing someone behind the wheel or operating machinery at work, learning how to properly deal with persecution, and deal with manipulative people and criminals, knowing what to major in at college, knowing the correct job, and many forms of common sense, the answer doesn't come from Scripture.

Neither does God provide those answers, because I have asked thousands of times for well over a decade!

I know countless atheists who would accept God with open arms. To them, it feels like God doesn't care about them personally, because he fails to leave signs or evidence that he is helping them, or cares about them.

Clear answers are not available. Confusion is in abundance! That is on God!

Maybe you have never read from the scriptures and are not aware that God does not answer the prayers of sinners. I think the only prayers God answers from those still in sin are prayers seeking to know God or prayers of repentance and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. After one is saved and belongs to Christ then God answers other prayers for guidance and other matters. That what I understand and to be the case and reason for confusion.

Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. John 9:31


Does God hear / answer the prayers of a sinner / unbeliever? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Spiderman]

Maybe you have never read from the scriptures and are not aware that God does not answer the prayers of sinners. I think the only prayers God answers from those still in sin are prayers seeking to know God or prayers of repentance and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. After one is saved and belongs to Christ then God answers other prayers for guidance and other matters. That what I understand and to be the case and reason for confusion.

Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. John 9:31


Does God hear / answer the prayers of a sinner / unbeliever? | GotQuestions.org

That is a total lie!

Everyone is a sinner. Scripture says the righteous man falls daily! The Apostles worked many of the signs of Christ and yet were sinners!

Thank you for providing proof scripture is a lie!

 

[InChrist]

That is a total lie!

Everyone is a sinner. Scripture says the righteous man falls daily! The Apostles worked many of the signs of Christ and yet were sinners!

Thank you for providing proof scripture is a lie!

So very true that everyone is sinful and falls short daily, yet the saved who have trusted Jesus Christ the Savior are covered by His sinless blood and righteousness.

 

[Spiderman]

So very true that everyone is sinful and falls short daily, yet the saved who have trusted Jesus Christ the Savior are covered by His sinless blood and righteousness.

Well, I am covered in the blood of Jesus, accepted my Lord and savior, I believe in the resurrection. Scripture says I am redeemed.

God should be granting the graces I seek and pray for. The debt has been payed!

 

[halbhh]

So far so good.
Why? What purpose can possibly be served by living forever? Captive inside infinite tedium without hope, surely? It's the well-named deadline that gives life meaning.
But [he]'s supposed to be benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient, and there's simply no sign of ANY of those things.
What use is that to a toddler drowning in a pool?

You've asked a lot of questions, and usually I don't respond to 4, 5 questions, because it can get too lengthy and/or hard to follow so many threads. But I will pick out what may be the most interesting.

After all, why not go in a different direction (better than a cul de sac type argument), and explore something interesting?

Q: What purpose can possibly be served by living forever?

Thinking about when I realized how much better life is even that the best I had experienced, I think a key moment was in my early 30s when I learned a good meditation technique (being taught 'Transcendental Mediation' but many kinds are quite good, not only this one).

You might find something new, or (really) you will if you do mediate well.

There is a wonderful feeling of timeless...'bliss' might be a good word to get at part of it.

And you'd begin then to realize how very wonderful in a timeless way it is to exist when you are in that state of being.

It would not matter what the time duration is, if you had a body that didn't have to have a lot of maintenance/sustenance, you could stay in one of those good places for so long, and then be ready for something else equally sublime and wonderful, of another flavor next.

Now, really, each individual person is a world.

Consider if you had time to experience one world after another.

 

[blü 2]

You've asked a lot of questions, and usually I don't respond to 4, 5 questions, because it can get too lengthy and/or hard to follow so many threads. But I will pick out what may be the most interesting.

After all, why not go in a different direction (better than a cul de sac type argument), and explore something interesting?

Q: What purpose can possibly be served by living forever?

Thinking about when I realized how much better life is even that the best I had experienced, I think a key moment was in my early 30s when I learned a good meditation technique (being taught 'Transcendental Mediation' but many kinds are quite good, not only this one).

You might find something new, or (really) you will if you do mediate well.

There is a wonderful feeling of timeless...'bliss' might be a good word to get at part of it.

And you'd begin then to realize how very wonderful in a timeless way it is to exist when you are in that state of being.

It would not matter what the time duration is, if you had a body that didn't have to have a lot of maintenance/sustenance, you could stay in one of those good places for so long, and then be ready for something else equally sublime and wonderful, of another flavor next.

Now, really, each individual person is a world.

Consider if you had time to experience one world after another.

What, sit around thinking nothing for five billion years then do it all again?

And you'd need a physical body to provide the endocrine system that generates those feel-good emotional states, which means you'll need five billion years' supply of food and a nearby toilet and a water supply, sunshine, and so on.

And isn't this an enormous selfish wish ─ ENORMOUSLY selfish?

And just as pointless?

 

[InChrist]

Well, I am covered in the blood of Jesus, accepted my Lord and savior, I believe in the resurrection. Scripture says I am redeemed.

God should be granting the graces I seek and pray for. The debt has been payed!

I am very glad to hear that. Now pray seeking God’s will in all areas of your life, wait, and trust.
Have a good evening.

How can I know God’s will for my life? What does the Bible say about knowing God’s will? | GotQuestions.org

https://www.gotquestions.org/praying-will-of-God.html

 

[Spiderman]

I am very glad to hear that. Now pray seeking God’s will in all areas of your life, wait, and trust.
Have a good evening.

How can I know God’s will for my life? What does the Bible say about knowing God’s will? | GotQuestions.org

How can I be sure I am praying according to the will of God? | GotQuestions.org
https://www.gotquestions.org/praying-will-of-God.html

I'm saying the Bible is an ancient outdated piece of literature that often says the opposite of what other verses say.

I have seen the Bible stir up so much hatred, confusion, fear, and bigotry, that I don't actually know it is without error. In fact, it clearly obviously contains errors.

The Bible says God is unchanging in one place, then elsewhere says "God repented, changed his mind, of the evil he planned on doing to Israel".

It is not reliable, because God may have changed his mind in the last two thousand years anyway.

I need to be hearing from God. I need to be receiving the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit guiding and inspiring my actions.

Humanity needs it and is starving for that, not some Ancient piece of literature, filled with cruelty, violence, misogyny, and bigotry, that contradicts itself!

 

[InChrist]

I'm saying the Bible is an ancient outdated piece of literature that often says the opposite of what other verses say.

I have seen the Bible stir up so much hatred, confusion, fear, and bigotry, that I don't actually know it is without error. In fact, it clearly obviously contains errors.

The Bible says God is unchanging in one place, then elsewhere says "God repented, changed his mind, of the evil he planned on doing to Israel".

It is not reliable, because God may have changed his mind in the last two thousand years anyway.

I need to be hearing from God. I need to be receiving the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit guiding and inspiring my actions.

Humanity needs it and is starving for that, not some Ancient piece of literature, filled with cruelty, violence, misogyny, and bigotry, that contradicts itself!

Say whatever you want about the Bible, I disagree. I see no contradictions and find it to be God’s living word full of wisdom and direction. The cruelty, violence and so on just happen to be blatant, honest narrative accounts of human sinfulness and the resulting harm it causes to people and this planet. Certainly, lines up with the reality we see and the truth that humanity needs a Savior.

 

[halbhh]

What, sit around thinking nothing for five billion years then do it all again?

And you'd need a physical body to provide the endocrine system that generates those feel-good emotional states, which means you'll need five billion years' supply of food and a nearby toilet and a water supply, sunshine, and so on.

And isn't this an enormous selfish wish ─ ENORMOUSLY selfish?

And just as pointless?

Time is an aspect of this current universe we live in, like gravity or magnetism: dependent and arising from this particular physics.

It's not some absolute thing in itself that would exist in the same way in a different universe so far as I understand.

Rather, this particular time we have here is only and simply a part of this physics here.

About your last questions, I'd suggest it's best to examine for yourself as best you can where your feelings come from in yourself in those ways. (e.g. -- Do you feel it's 'selfish' if you enjoy music or friends? If so, it may be best to seek out counseling, which can be very helpful about things of that sort. You want to live the best life you can right now, and if you feel that enjoyment of people is a flaw, it's definitely best to get help to change that point of view.)

 

[blü 2]

I'd suggest it's best to examine for yourself as best you can where your feelings come from in yourself in those ways. (e.g. -- Do you feel it's 'selfish' if you enjoy music or friends? If so, it may be best to seek out counseling, which can be very helpful about things of that sort. You want to live the best life you can right now, and if you feel that enjoyment of people is a flaw, it's definitely best to get help to change that point of view.)

Just hanging out cheerfully with friends for infinite years to come?

Why?

To accomplish what, and for whom?

Life is about having things to do and getting them done, and that's where meaning comes from. And of course each generation differs from the one before it, so that the link with parents and grandparents is relevant and important.

In your static infinity, nothing really matters, nothing can ever really matter, meaning is not just lost, it was never present, there's no point to anything.

 

[halbhh]

Just hanging out cheerfully with friends for infinite years to come?

Yes.

Why?

To accomplish what, and for whom?

Life wants to live I guess is one way of saying it. Music wants to happen and be heard. People want to enjoy a million different things, others, happenings/new states of being. And then do them again and again. New permutations, and so on. Even 100,000 or 1 million of this (type of) ordinary time would feel brief under the right conditions. As I already know from meditation, even without drugs and even here and now, one can enter into timeless states of mind where hours go by and it's like it's all just a moment, just one moment of being.
Anyway, it's effortless to imagine enjoying life for eons in the 'age to come' (which is the more precise wording translation I've seen, and thus not necessarily an 'infinity' even. But also, it's not clear that even time itself has to exist in a different physics. )

Basically, the last way you should guess at some such alternative type of existence is to just presume it's only like this one.

 

[blü 2]

Yes.

Life wants to live I guess is one way of saying it. Music wants to happen and be heard. People want to enjoy a million different things, others, happenings/new states of being. And then do them again and again. New permutations, and so on. Even 100,000 or 1 million of this (type of) ordinary time would feel brief under the right conditions. As I already know from meditation, even without drugs and even here and now, one can enter into timeless states of mind where hours go by and it's like it's all just a moment, just one moment of being.
Anyway, it's effortless to imagine enjoying life for eons in the 'age to come' (which is the more precise wording translation I've seen, and thus not necessarily an 'infinity' even. But also, it's not clear that even time itself has to exist in a different physics. )

Basically, the last way you should guess at some such alternative type of existence is to just presume it's only like this one.

The fact is that life has a point, and gets its meaning by being finite. We're born with an instinctive loose life-map in our genetics ─ to be raised by our parents from helpless infant to young learner, to reach adolescence and prepare for pairing and breeding, to raise children and grandchildren, to pass on our knowledge, and to quit the scene.

With eternal life, there's no plan, no point, just the self-indulgence you mention.

Can you quit? Can you go and see the correct official and say, "That's enough, I want out, I want to cease to be"?

 

[halbhh]

The fact is that life has a point,

This life. This life has some finite certain (ideal) goals. .... We'd agree on that.

With eternal life, there's no plan, no point, just the self-indulgence you mention.

Can you quit?

Actually I addressed this in regard to the assumed question/attribute of time duration, but maybe it wasn't noticeable or seemed obscure. Notice the wording "age to come" and also what I mentioned just after it. See now? That does not imply it would not be 'eternal' if you merely consider what else I also said in that post, about a different physics, etc. It may or may not be in a different physics where time isn't even really at all like it is here. It also might not be infinite, but still be eternal, etc. There are so many possibilities, that if I mention one, you might mistakenly highlight it too much. It's only one possibility of many, but we may be there in a timeless place. Or other things I can think of that are even more out-there.

 

[blü 2]

This life. This life has some finite certain (ideal) goals. .... We'd agree on that.

Actually I addressed this in regard to the assumed question/attribute of time duration, but maybe it wasn't noticeable or seemed obscure. Notice the wording "age to come" and also what I mentioned just after it. See now? That does not imply it would not be 'eternal' if you merely consider what else I also said in that post, about a different physics, etc. It may or may not be in a different physics where time isn't even really at all like it is here. It also might not be infinite, but still be eternal, etc. There are so many possibilities, that if I mention one, you might mistakenly highlight it too much. It's only one possibility of many, but we may be there in a timeless place. Or other things I can think of that are even more out-there.

Well ─ good luck with that ...

 

[halbhh]

Well ─ good luck with that ...

It's not a luck thing, but instead more like I trust the expert, the famed teacher Jesus, who knows more about this stuff then you or me.

 

[blü 2]

It's not a luck thing, but instead more like I trust the expert, the famed teacher Jesus, who knows more about this stuff then you or me.

There are five main versions of Jesus in the NT, but I don't recall any of them discussing the nature of time in heaven ─ unless you count Matthew's Jesus' discussion of wives in heaven (Matthew 22:28-32), where he speaks not of souls but of a sexless resurrection 'like the angels', and otherwise seems to imply a normal view of time for 'the living'.

 

[halbhh]

There are five main versions of Jesus in the NT, but I don't recall any of them discussing the nature of time in heaven ─ unless you count Matthew's Jesus' discussion of wives in heaven (Matthew 22:28-32), where he speaks not of souls but of a sexless resurrection 'like the angels', and otherwise seems to imply a normal view of time for 'the living'.

Ok, I'd try to also (as you did) wish you 'good luck with that' except I know it won't be luck actually that determines a person's outcome, but what they choose, whether they choose the good, or prefer to stay in old wrongs they have preferred so far. Regardless of whether a person calls it 'karma' or whatever else, like 'just desserts' it will be that way: God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” Romans 2:6 God "will repay each one according to his deeds." And that's why Christ came, to help us with that.