Put God on trial!

[Ehav4Ever]

I was not aware you don't believe in a God for one.

I mentioned it in another thread. I don't beleive in the western concept of a god.

I can understand why you don't believe in God. He leaves people feeling like he is not there.

What you are describing is one of the concepts of a god that I don't beleive in. I also don't beleive in the concept of what the word in English "god" carries along with it.

Long story but again I won't bog down your thread with something that is not related to the OP.

 

[halbhh]

I love so much of what Christ taught, but almost never is he faithful to his word. He said "faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, and that those who believe in him will do the works that he does and greater works than that." That is clearly falsehood!

Some alienated anti-Christians have worked hard to try to paint odd interpretations of these verses to make it seem the way they'd prefer, and thus wrong. But you don't have to accept an anti-Christian interpretation of a Christian text, of course.

Christ taught that only prayers with faith that they will be answered are answered. (Mark chapter 11) Notice how that is conditional.

My prayers have been answered but I never prayed for some totally unneeded thing like destroying mount Everest. (context, what did Christ say in total full context...) Instead, I prayed (for 1/2 of second) when I fell off a 2nd story roof above large rocks, in significant danger of death or maiming. Almost 6 years later, I prayed for a foot that had ached painfully for a year and a half. To my real shock, both of these prayers were answered. I was shocked later see, not while I prayed. Each prayer was answered (so the rate of being answered was 100% for about a couple dozen altogether). I prayed in desperation, really, but with a leap of actual faith. So, it's been years since that foot ached for about 500 days in a row, and since then -0- days. I did not need to pray for a mountain to be moved, so I can't report on that.

Listen, I'd not pray for something I know is wrong, or unneeded. I could not have faith to pray for something unneeded, I think. Examples: I can't pray with faith that someone die. I can't pray with faith that I get super rich. I can't pray with faith that I have a harem of 20 women. I seem to only have faith when I pray because I'm praying for something that makes sense according to what Christ taught. So, if it happens I get trapped under a car, then I could pray, on the spot, but I could not pray for cars to all disappear. So, if you read what Christ said in context, then it's not at all like some atheists try to paint it... There's the thing: don't rely on an atheist or their ideas to interpret scriptures, because it would be like relying on Rush Limbaugh to interpret Obama. They are like a person that put on a blindfold when they try to interpret scriptures that require faith to even understand. So, for you to get what a passage means, you'd need to read the entire book for yourself, with openness to hear the new things, and then you'd be getting the context and the actual intended meanings.

 

[halbhh]

I love so much of what Christ taught, but almost never is he faithful to his word. He said "faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, and that those who believe in him will do the works that he does and greater works than that." That is clearly falsehood!

Is he going to tell me which spouse to marry? I was certain he was telling me who to marry, and I jumped off a three-story building the day I proposed marriage to her?

I proceeded to hear Jesus continue telling me to marry that woman. We got into a friendship for about a year , which resulted in an eventual restraining order. After I believe the restraining order expired, I continued writing her letters and it led to some serious troubles.

People say that woman is petrified of me! My whole basis in my pursuit of her was signs that I was getting from scripture, and she has the name of a scripture character.

My surname is alternative for Jacob , the husband of Leah. Her name is Leah. I was reading about a 20th century figure leader whose surname means Jacob at the time I met her, and I thought that God was speaking to me through the incident, because it was love at first sight.

I have never loved another human being a fraction of as much as I love her. Yet there is currently a restraining order! I have put her through a nightmare , and she has put me through a nightmare, and it was based off of God's word!

You can see why I am disgusted with God's word? It almost killed me, and permanently traumatized somebody else!

Reading through your post, a certain similar situation with Christ came to mind. Have you by chance read Matthew chapter 3 and 4? I ask because one of the situations that comes up is jumping off a tall height. That's in chapter 4, but the reason I mentioned chapter 3 is it in small part sets up chapter 4, so ideally one would read them together.

When you get to chapter 4, you will notice a moment when the challenge is to test God by jumping off a tall structure. What you posted reminded me of that, and I feel that this chapter could help frame that. (you'll see why!) (also, you may have jumped for either of 2 very different reasons as just occurred to me, but still this could still be helpful in a different way, even if jumping wasn't a test, and even if you survived with pain; because God loves us, He doesn't try to stop us from suffering here, during this life which is like school in a way (this temporary life), because we are to learn deeper lessons, and for almost everyone that will involve some pains. I had a significant share in youth before even age 20.)

Matthew 3 NIV
Matthew 4 NIV

 

[Muffled]

If you know, then you might be a prophet, and it is your responsibility to share!

I believe I don't know if I have the gift of prophecy but certainly God tells me things that I talk about on RF and He talks through me here as well. Perhaps that is due to the fact that I don't talk about the future. I have had a personal foretelling come true but prophesy is usually public.

I believe I share what God wants me to share. He keeps some things to Himself or might tell someone He trusts like me.

 

[Muffled]

So if God is found guilty, can we ship him to one of the colonies for punishment? Australia sounds ideal, a land of godless, sheep-loving beer drinkers.

I believe we could send Him to Kali for reeducation, lol.

 

[Muffled]

Reading through your post, a certain similar situation with Christ came to mind. Have you by chance read Matthew chapter 3 and 4? I ask because one of the situations that comes up is jumping off a tall height. That's in chapter 4, but the reason I mentioned chapter 3 is it in small part sets up chapter 4, so ideally one would read them together.

When you get to chapter 4, you will notice a moment when the challenge is to test God by jumping off a tall structure. What you posted reminded me of that, and I feel that this chapter could help frame that. (you'll see why!) (also, you may have jumped for either of 2 very different reasons as just occurred to me, but still this could still be helpful in a different way, even if jumping wasn't a test, and even if you survived with pain; because God loves us, He doesn't try to stop us from suffering here, during this life which is like school in a way (this temporary life), because we are to learn deeper lessons, and for almost everyone that will involve some pains. I had a significant share in youth before even age 20.)

Matthew 3 NIV
Matthew 4 NIV

I believe a person who would avoid suffering loses his life just as Jesus said: John 12:25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Maybe you have never read from the scriptures and are not aware that God does not answer the prayers of sinners. I think the only prayers God answers from those still in sin are prayers seeking to know God or prayers of repentance and trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. After one is saved and belongs to Christ then God answers other prayers for guidance and other matters. That what I understand and to be the case and reason for confusion.

Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. John 9:31


Does God hear / answer the prayers of a sinner / unbeliever? | GotQuestions.org

But wouldn't God realize that if someone is praying to him, they must believe in him? Even Jesus said the thief on the cross would be with him in paradise, when he didn't say the Sinner's Prayer, etc. He simply asked to be remembered.

 

[InChrist]

But wouldn't God realize that if someone is praying to him, they must believe in him? Even Jesus said the thief on the cross would be with him in paradise, when he didn't say the Sinner's Prayer, etc. He simply asked to be remembered.

I don’t doubt God realizes that a person praying believes in Him in some form another, but I also think God knows the sincerity or motives when someone prays and responds or doesn’t respond accordingly.

 

[Bree]

Could you imagine being an ancient Israelite, and putting babies, pregnant women, and children to the sword because God ordered it!?

Could you imagine going up to terrified , innocent, screaming children, and thrusting your sword/spear into them?

I wouldn't even feel like a man anymore I would feel so low!

The God of the Bible is simply very sick!

Even Genghis Khan adopted orphans in the enemy cities he conquered and welcomed POWS into his military to be officers even. It wasn't total scorched earth policies!

I'm so glad I haven't caused a tiny fraction of .01% of the pain and suffering God is responsible!

God sometimes didn't command total exterminations. He occasionally sanctioned taking traumatized virgins (whose family just got violently killed), as sex slaves, condemning them to a lifetime of humiliation and agony!

I'm sorry, running your sword through pregnant women, babies, and children, even in obedience to God, and taking traumatized virgins as sex slaves, is disgusting and disturbing crimes against humanity NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT!!!

I think it's extremely sad and wrong that particular God cannot be overthrown, replaced by someone compassionate/generous, and put him on trial for his war crimes, and extreme stinginess in managing graces and exercising omnipotence!

I'm trying to respect this God, as I believe it adds to the powers of my prayers, (and pleases some of the violently raped and murdered girls and suicides I bless and pray for), but when you are dealing with the ugliest war criminal, and greatest cause of misery, disasters, death, destruction, sorrow, and agony in our world, what the hell is there that deserves respect??

Put the greatest criminal there ever was on trial!!!

All im going to say is that Gods actions are always justified and it is mankind who dictate the methods and terms of war. It is man who is barbaric. God has allowed man to operate in this way but it does not mean it is Gods way.

If God chooses to put someone to death, it is instant and justified. Also, as the creator, he is the only one with the 'right' to put someone to death who deserves it.

People who put others to death have no right to do so..

 

[halbhh]

All im going to say is that Gods actions are always justified and it is mankind who dictate the methods and terms of war. It is man who is barbaric. God has allowed man to operate in this way but it does not mean it is Gods way.

If God chooses to put someone to death, it is instant and justified. Also, as the creator, he is the only one with the 'right' to put someone to death who deserves it.

People who put others to death have no right to do so..

This is correct, but may be confusing in wording to some that haven't yet found God, because by 'death' many that haven't found God will think you mean the first death of just the mortal body (and maybe that is what you meant, I'm not sure) -- but that first death is in reality only like "sleep" as Christ said, and all will awaken from that sleep, to face God in time.

But a true death, the 'second death', for those that reject God/reject "love one another" -- will only be after the Day of Judgment, but those that repent and turn to Him in faith will not 'perish' in that real death. (and some will get a chance even after this mortal life: 1rst Peter 3:18-20, 4:6)

 

[2ndpillar]

Could you imagine being an ancient Israelite, and putting babies, pregnant women, and children to the sword because God ordered it!?

Could you imagine putting unborn children to the spoon, because someone says it is okay?

 

[2ndpillar]

American nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the biggest acts of terrorism in history, did not target military targets, left people with blood coming out of ear drums, hair burned off, burns from head to toe, purple sores all over body, radiation sickness, cancer, babies being born without eyeballs....and the horrors go on and on.

God is absolutely responsible for such terror!

The calculations regarding death tolls if the U.S. had to invade Japan, versus bombing Hiroshima (50,000 lives), was about 500,000 lives saved. If you are afraid of what has already happened, keep tuned in, for the same will happen again when the nations invade Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:12). I think the lives lost to the Mongols was 30 million, with skulls stacked into pyramidal signs, the lives lost to the 2nd world war was around 60 million, the lives lost to abortion since Roe, is around 61 million. The lives lost to Mao's reeducation was around 40 to 80 million. I kind of think the sky is going to fall (Revelation 16:21), and it not because 50,000 lives were lost in Hiroshima. Ask the Chinese what the Japanese did in Nanjing and Manchuria, and how many Chinese were killed, raped, and experimented on over a long-drawn-out period of time.

 

[Wildswanderer]

read it twice, and think for myself as a non-believer. That's why your declarations of dead victims still being alive is absurd. You as a believer thinks the dead are not dead, yes? Let's note Christians do not agree with your claim.

Actually most of them do. Eternal life is a basic Christian belief.

 

[2ndpillar]

I also like the part in the Creed about Jesus "descended into hell". It gives me hope he can go to hell and bring people out, help them make an escape from Alcatraz prison!

There is a YouTube video of a lady who has down syndrome, who did the escape Alcatraz swim a dozen times. She, like a lot of down syndrome people, is short, has poor sight and hearing, speaks and walks a little funny, but apparently is persistent in what she wants to do. People in hell, the grave, will either be like the righteous, who will rise and reign for 1000 years, or be those who die and will be raised at the white throne judgment, at which time they will all be judged according to their deeds, regardless of what insane ideas they may hold (Revelation 20:12).

 

[2ndpillar]

Actually most of them do. Eternal life is a basic Christian belief.

What a follower of the false prophet Paul, a "Christian", believes, and what is true, are two different things. While "everlasting life" may be true, the followers of the "false prophets" are on the road to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13-23).

 

[halbhh]

Could you imagine putting unborn children to the spoon, because someone says it is okay?

Are you talking about abortion, the hot topic lately yet again in the U.S. news (i heard yet another piece on it this morning on NPR)?

Personally, I think almost none of us would think an embryo should be treated like a full fledged human person, but most all of us would think an 8 months late term baby still in the womb on the other hand is pretty much getting so close we feel it's about there (to be just like a already born baby).

Right?

So, personally, I think was has been the consensus in the U.S. is about right: that early term abortions are not killing a person, but that late term abortions are much more serious and have to be carefully regulated just like we'd look to rescue an abandoned infant.

What's your view?

 

[F1fan]

Actually most of them do. Eternal life is a basic Christian belief.

There is no factual or rational basis to believe in this literal idea. Plus it is contrary to what we know about conscious awareness. That Christians do believe it literally only raises questions as to why the religion claims it, and why otherwise intelligent people accept it is true.

 

[halbhh]

There is no factual or rational basis to believe in this literal idea. Plus it is contrary to what we know about conscious awareness. That Christians do believe it literally only raises questions as to why the religion claims it, and why otherwise intelligent people accept it is true.

Hi there. Just purely curious about your view.

Are you saying you don't believe the basic Buddhist summary like so:

Life after death
Buddhists believe in a cycle of death and rebirth called samsara. Through karma and eventual enlightenment, they hope to escape samsara and achieve nirvana, an end to suffering.

That you don't believe that? If so, I'm sincerely curious to hear what is it you believe instead, and why you don't accept that Buddhist idea of reincarnation and so on.

 

[F1fan]

Hi there. Just purely curious about your view.

Are you saying you don't believe the basic Buddhist summary like so:

Life after death
Buddhists believe in a cycle of death and rebirth called samsara. Through karma and eventual enlightenment, they hope to escape samsara and achieve nirvana, an end to suffering.

That you don't believe that? If so, I'm sincerely curious to hear what is it you believe instead, and why you don't accept that Buddhist idea of reincarnation and so on.

I don't. I like the idea but there is no reason to think it happens. Let's note that the Hindu and Buddhist ideas of reincarnation are not like Christianity's idea of life after death. Totally different concepts and different in essence. In Christianity the afterlife is presumed to hold on to identity and ego, or the soul, whereas in Eastern thought it is more of the life essence being referred to. The self dies.

 

[halbhh]

In Christianity the afterlife is presumed to hold on to identity and ego, or the soul, whereas in Eastern thought it is more of the life essence being referred to. The self dies.

Ah, that's so interesting!

Look, I've read the accounts of Christ's words several times each (for all 4), and I'd summarize his attitude as (actually, let me start with a quote and then my summary):

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

Christ strongly corrected/challenged/condemned the religious authorities of his time for being ego based. Here's just a small taste:
"5“Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries a wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others."

So, the ego is the enemy of the soul, basically, according to Christ.

He said that we must become naturally free of ego like children:

“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

So, what you said F1fan is the attitude of Buddhism there is precisely the same it seems, from what you said. You summarized it so well I realized what I was going to write as Christ's attitude would be so similar to your own that it might seem as if I was merely copying you!, so I had to instead quote Christ directly, so that it would be clear I wasn't just copying you. I love the way you describe the Buddhist attitude, and it's lovely, and I while I knew it was pretty similar, now I'm remembering how strong the similarity is.

Even the part about dying to the false ego self:

"Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds."

Isn't that interesting....