Put God on trial!

[Kenny]

But I appreciate the prayers and blessings. I believe prayers and blessings have power even when they come from heretics, who believe in falsehood!

I'm not calling you a heretic either cuz that is against the rules. I'm saying "if" you were." At this time, how should I know one way or the other?

by asking questions.

Let me ask you a question...

1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ask the Catholic, JW, Baptist, Pentecostal, Disciple of Christ et al.... who disagrees with this statement?

 

[Spiderman]

by asking questions.

Let me ask you a question...

1 Corinthians 2:8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ask the Catholic, JW, Baptist, Pentecostal, Disciple of Christ et al.... who disagrees with this statement?

Faith of a mustard seed is supposed to move mountains. The Holy Spirit is supposed to guide and unite people.

Instead they are divided like crazy.

Jesus said "those who believe in me will do the works that I do and greater".

More than two billion Christians on earth. None are doing greater works than Christ or moving mountains.

There you have it! Obvious proof the Bible is a lie.

Why is God such a liar??

 

[Muffled]

I believe I find Him not guilty and fully justified in all that He did.

 

[Muffled]

It's a pretty crappy "divine plan," I'll give you that.

I believe people don't think that way because every civilized nation uses it.

 

[Muffled]

I love the verse about the Gospel preached to the dead and those in prison. Thanks for reminding me.

I also like the part in the Creed about Jesus "descended into hell". It gives me hope he can go to hell and bring people out, help them make an escape from Alcatraz prison!

I believe that was not Hell but the grave. Current translators tend to translate the grave as Hell but they are not the same thing. However He hasn't told people everything. I know but I am not telling.

 

[Spiderman]

I believe that was not Hell but the grave. Current translators tend to translate the grave as Hell but they are not the same thing. However He hasn't told people everything. I know but I am not telling.

If you know, then you might be a prophet, and it is your responsibility to share!

 

[1213]

... innocent, screaming ...sex slaves, ...

You are not a good judge, because you don’t seem to care about facts, proof, not evidence. You make baseless accusations, which is not nice. No reason to think God has ordered innocent people to die. And there is not even the word “sex slave” in the Bible. that is just someone’s interpretation, that tells more about that person’s mind than about God.

 

[Kenny]

Faith of a mustard seed is supposed to move mountains. The Holy Spirit is supposed to guide and unite people.

Instead they are divided like crazy.

Jesus said "those who believe in me will do the works that I do and greater".

More than two billion Christians on earth. None are doing greater works than Christ or moving mountains.

There you have it! Obvious proof the Bible is a lie.

Why is God such a liar??

notice again....

no answer to the question... just your philosophy on "why I DON'T want to believe".

How many miracles have you actually looked for to confirm that people are actually moving their mountains of problems?

So, when you say "I believe" at one moment and then "God is a liar" at the next moment... it reminds me of:

James 3:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

So ask the Adventist, the Baptist, the Pentecostal, the Mormon, the Catholic, and the whosever else you want to ask that is a Christian if there is a different interpretation and you will find there isn't.

In my view, if you just study this scripture, maybe, just maybe, you will have answered the question of why you have a problem with believing as you are tossed to and fro by every wave and can't seem to get a prayer answered.

 

[Spiderman]

notice again....

no answer to the question... just your philosophy on "why I DON'T want to believe".

How many miracles have you actually looked for to confirm that people are actually moving their mountains of problems?

So, when you say "I believe" at one moment and then "God is a liar" at the next moment... it reminds me of:

James 3:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

So ask the Adventist, the Baptist, the Pentecostal, the Mormon, the Catholic, and the whosever else you want to ask that is a Christian if there is a different interpretation and you will find there isn't.

In my view, if you just study this scripture, maybe, just maybe, you will have answered the question of why you have a problem with believing as you are tossed to and fro by every wave and can't seem to get a prayer answered.

Im well aware that lack of faith decreases powers of prayers. I prayed for strong faith. God refused to grant it!

I have incessantly looked for miracles. It seems there occasionally is one.

But I have attended healing rooms many times where people pray in tongues, prophecy, have visions, have far more than the faith of a mustard seed, and none of the Paralyzed people they pray for get up and walk.

Doctors have complained about the ministry because people with cancer don't get the cancer removed because they are certain the healing room ministry and prayer warriors, and faith will heal them, rather than have to get a breast amputated.

The cancer proceeds to grow and faith harms the person in the end.

I have seen so many examples of the Bible and Quran harming and damaging people it makes me thoroughly sick and disgusted!!!

And yes, the amount of Christians calling Catholics: Idolators, Satan worshippers, and the Church "Prostitute, whore of Babylon" is hundreds of millions.

Over a billion Catholics see Protestants as heretics, and wars have been fought over it, brutal wars with hideously repulsive tortures, and condemning the enemy souls to eternal fire in Hell, over who interprets Scripture correctly!

That's sick, foul, disgusting, wrong!!!

God could speak up and he lives in his luxury, unwilling to end the confusion. The Bible has stirred up countless bigotry and toxic beliefs, ideas, and behaviors!

 

[Martin]

So if God is found guilty, can we ship him to one of the colonies for punishment? Australia sounds ideal, a land of godless, sheep-loving beer drinkers.

 

[InChrist]

God is absent to the rational and sober mind. So are you suggesting certain types of theists have a special extrasensory ability that can "see" this missing God?

Feel free to offer your explanation and don't forget to provide facts.

I am not suggesting that certain types of theists have the ability to see God. Have you ever heard the song “Amazing Grace” and the line that says... I once was blind, but now I see? I am saying that God has given witness of Himself through creation, His Words, and in coming to earth in the Person of Jesus Christ and anyone who truly seeks and wants to know the reality of God’s existence and presence will know because God will provide adequate proof Himself.


And you will seek Me and find Me,when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

 

[Ella S.]

I believe people don't think that way because every civilized nation uses it.

Uses what? A divine plan? I don't think so.

I have plenty of complaints to levy against so-called "civilized nations," too, though.

 

[Martin]

If God is found guilty, they'll be a lot of law suits for compensation.
I'll be claiming damages for my experiences as an altar boy, though my consumption of altar wine might be a mitigating factor.

 

[halbhh]

What did God do to prevent the bombing of Dresden?

Are we to assume from [his] complete inaction that [he] approved of it?

Or closer to home, the Thirty Years War which established Protestantism and left many millions dead, all but all of them Christians, and was accompanied by such regular and appalling acts of brutality and gratuitous cruelty on both sides that it remains a touchstone for such things?

Again, are we to assume from [his] complete inaction that [he] approved of it?

2 things as background precepts:

This is a temporary life, and God will save some into eternal life. But generally 100% of these mortal bodies we are in will die:

"...remember you are dust, and to dust you will return"

So, all these bodies will die, and then many will get new bodies that will live indefinitely long, and there's little point in arguing that these temporary bodies are what you'd like to last forever (they weren't designed to do so).

2nd, why does God allow evils like the Dresden indiscriminate bombing? --> God doesn't control us like puppets. So that means we can do actions we choose, both good actions or evil actions.

And obviously here in this temporary life, many choose evil actions. Like the indiscriminate bombing in Dresden as you asked about is only one example.

But God does do something to combat evil, and help us change to the Good.

He sent a very good teacher (read his words and see) to help those willing, those humble enough to admit their own wrongs, to help us see our own evils ...

To see what we ourselves do wrong, instead of being focused only on seeing evils in other people!

So, if anyone is humble, that's one huge gain/improvement Christ can help them in, if they turn to Him, learn from Him.

So, one person at a time, God thus helps those willing to admit their own wrongs, and then turn away from them, and begin to live in a new way, even when it's sometimes means going differently than most, etc.

Only some will choose that harder way of genuine change for the better, Christ said. Christ said most would not choose that hard way that leads to heaven.

So, it seems Christ is predicting that most will prefer to keep a few favorite evils they like. (e.g. -- could be anything, like maybe gossiping in a disparaging way, or being prejudiced against a group like prejudice against a racial group or religious group, etc.)....

 

[blü 2]

So, all these bodies will die

So far so good.

and then many will get new bodies that will live indefinitely long.

Why? What purpose can possibly be served by living forever? Captive inside infinite tedium without hope, surely? It's the well-named deadline that gives life meaning.

2nd, why does God allow evils like the Dresden indiscriminate bombing? --> God doesn't control us like puppets.

But [he]'s supposed to be benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient, and there's simply no sign of ANY of those things.

But God does do something to combat evil, and help us change to the Good.

He sent a very good teacher

What use is that to a toddler drowning in a pool?

 

[F1fan]

I am not suggesting that certain types of theists have the ability to see God. Have you ever heard the song “Amazing Grace” and the line that says... I once was blind, but now I see?

So "seeing" is a metaphor. But this metaphor does not get explained. What is "seeing" supposed to represent in what the average Christian thinks is happening? From my own observations and explanations by believers what is happening is believers getting whipped up into emotional frenzy, and this euphoria is assumed to be experiencing God. The cognitive sciences es explain this as hormones getting secreted into the blood and the brain gets high. This is biology of a material process. A similar feeling happens when our sports teams wins the big game. It is interpreted differently so believers won't know it's the same euphoria.

I am saying that God has given witness of Himself through creation, His Words, and in coming to earth in the Person of Jesus Christ and anyone who truly seeks and wants to know the reality of God’s existence and presence will know because God will provide adequate proof Himself.

Which really means is you adopted a set of concepts from other Christians and you think the thoughts validate the concepts you already believe are true. If you were born in a Muslim country you'd be doing the same thing about Muhammed.

As it is there are no facts that verify the Christian/Muslim concepts you cited above. So you decided they were true via some mental process that was not reason.

And you will seek Me and find Me,when you search for Me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13

As what is found is how much the beliefs you adopted from other Christians are true, yet with no reason or facts.

 

[Eyes to See]

Could you imagine being an ancient Israelite, and putting babies, pregnant women, and children to the sword because God ordered it!?

Could you imagine going up to terrified , innocent, screaming children, and thrusting your sword/spear into them?

I wouldn't even feel like a man anymore I would feel so low!

The God of the Bible is simply very sick!

Even Genghis Khan adopted orphans in the enemy cities he conquered and welcomed POWS into his military to be officers even. It wasn't total scorched earth policies!

I'm so glad I haven't caused a tiny fraction of .01% of the pain and suffering God is responsible!

God sometimes didn't command total exterminations. He occasionally sanctioned taking traumatized virgins (whose family just got violently killed), as sex slaves, condemning them to a lifetime of humiliation and agony!

I'm sorry, running your sword through pregnant women, babies, and children, even in obedience to God, and taking traumatized virgins as sex slaves, is disgusting and disturbing crimes against humanity NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT!!!

I think it's extremely sad and wrong that particular God cannot be overthrown, replaced by someone compassionate/generous, and put him on trial for his war crimes, and extreme stinginess in managing graces and exercising omnipotence!

I'm trying to respect this God, as I believe it adds to the powers of my prayers, (and pleases some of the violently raped and murdered girls and suicides I bless and pray for), but when you are dealing with the ugliest war criminal, and greatest cause of misery, disasters, death, destruction, sorrow, and agony in our world, what the hell is there that deserves respect??

Put the greatest criminal there ever was on trial!!!

 “‘But you will say: “The way of Jehovah is unjust.” Please listen..Is it my way that is unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?"-Ezekiel 18:25.

"It is a man’s own foolishness that distorts his way, And his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah."-Proverbs 19:3.

"But you have said, ‘The way of Jehovah is unjust.’ I will judge each of you according to his ways."-Ezekiel 33:20.



Greetings. I see you said you are trying to respect the God of the Bible, but are having terms coming to grips with his righteous decisions.

And this can happen to anyone with limited information. Even his command to abstain from sexual immorality to many seems a ridiculous moral rule. But when God issues commands it is for the good of everyone. He is a God of love and would never do anything inappropriate. The question is do you really have faith this is the case? If you don't, then study of the Bible, reflection of God's qualities, and prayer for his holy spirit and wisdom and discernment will help you.

Abraham thought as you did. It is written in the Bible for us. When God sent the 3 angels to inform the faithful man Abraham what he intended to do to Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham, perhaps such as you, protested:

"Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there are 50 righteous men within the city. Will you, then, sweep them away and not pardon the place for the sake of the 50 righteous who are inside it? 25 It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?”-Genesis 18:23-25.

Now Jehovah did not reprehend Abraham for questioning him. And Abraham knowing Jehovah knew that he would never kill the righteous along with the wicked. If you read the account Jehovah patiently let Abraham plead with him, until he said that if there were 10 righteous men in the city he would not destroy it on account of the ten.

Do you see the point? Jehovah does not kill haphazardly. In fact he is generous in the fact that he will preserve a wicked city if 10 righteous men were found in it.

There is another account that shows us that God does not kill indiscriminately. And that has to do with a prophecy given to Ezekiel. There Jehovah showed the prophet Ezekiel all of the detestable disgusting things his people were doing, starting in the temple sanctuary, and then on out into the entire city. Horrible things, idol worship, usury, murder, bribery, all kinds of vile things you can imagine. And now Jehovah was going to bring to account all of the wicked people doing their wicked deeds. But did he sweep away the righteous along with the wicked? No, note what Jehovah first commands the angel with the secretary's inkhorn to do:

"And he began calling out to the man who was clothed in linen, at whose waist was the secretary’s inkhorn. Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”-Ezekiel 9:3-4.


So the angel with the secretary's inkhorn was to go throughout the city and leave a mark on the forehead of all those "sighing and groaning over all the detestable things" that were being done in Jerusalem. Why? Well next the six angels with weapons for smashing were commissioned to go throughout the city and to put to death all of the wicked people, but the righteous ones were to be spared:

"And to the others he said in my hearing: “Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion.  Old man, young man, virgin, little child, and women you should kill off completely. But do not go near to any man on whom there is the mark. You should start from my sanctuary.” So they started with the elders who were in front of the house.  Then he said to them: “Defile the house and fill the courtyards with the slain. Go!” So they went out and struck down people in the city."-Ezekiel 9:5-7.

So Jehovah knows how to reserve the wicked for destruction but how to save people of godly devotion:

"So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, 10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority."-2 Peter 2:9-10.

Jehovah would never act wickedly. He is a just and righteous God, all of his ways are pure and upright:

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he."
-Deuteronomy 32:4.

Instead of condemning the righteous and good God who would never do anything wrong, it would be good to trust his good and wise judicial decisions. Even if you have not done the investigation as to why, or even are able to know everyone's heart as does God, you can trust when he makes a decision he is wholly just and righteous in what he decides.

Not only that though, God is loving and extremely merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness:

“Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”-Exodus 34:6-7.

And although his burning anger flares up and is brief, his mercy and his love extend on into eternity.

This is how God truly views the putting to death of any human:

“‘I do not take any pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So turn back and live.’”-Ezekiel 18:32.

 

[InChrist]

So "seeing" is a metaphor. But this metaphor does not get explained. What is "seeing" supposed to represent in what the average Christian thinks is happening? From my own observations and explanations by believers what is happening is believers getting whipped up into emotional frenzy, and this euphoria is assumed to be experiencing God. The cognitive sciences es explain this as hormones getting secreted into the blood and the brain gets high. This is biology of a material process. A similar feeling happens when our sports teams wins the big game. It is interpreted differently so believers won't know it's the same euphoria.


Which really means is you adopted a set of concepts from other Christians and you think the thoughts validate the concepts you already believe are true. If you were born in a Muslim country you'd be doing the same thing about Muhammed.

As it is there are no facts that verify the Christian/Muslim concepts you cited above. So you decided they were true via some mental process that was not reason.



As what is found is how much the beliefs you adopted from other Christians are true, yet with no reason or facts.

Personally, I am very reserved. I don’t get whipped up in emotional frenzies. I know there are those Charismatic or Pentecostal Christian that do and at times I question some of the practices they participate in or claim are from God, in such frenzied states.
I trusted Jesus and was born again to new life in Christ, quietly, at home.

I think your idea falls short about one being born in a Christian country or a Muslim country or wherever because there are endless examples of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and others leaving their birth religion and trusting Jesus Christ as their Savior, in their respective countries.

 

[rational experiences]

In the beginning by a human told theist is a lie.

Why a human was taught lying gets life on earth a rock planet it's owned end destroyed. As rock is first in any human truthful scientific thesis.

Machine science or ology of any type.

Lying is a human lawful topic. The court of human law said humans either lie or tell the truth.

The judge was once a holy non sexual father. Who stated he supported the equality of two equal human children.

Why they were celibate as first human judges.

So it's not religion idealism that was first.

The first holy celibate father's were human judges in a law court separate from science or religion.

 

[Spiderman]

 “‘But you will say: “The way of Jehovah is unjust.” Please listen..Is it my way that is unjust? Is it not your ways that are unjust?"-Ezekiel 18:25.

"It is a man’s own foolishness that distorts his way, And his heart becomes enraged against Jehovah."-Proverbs 19:3.

"But you have said, ‘The way of Jehovah is unjust.’ I will judge each of you according to his ways."-Ezekiel 33:20.



Greetings. I see you said you are trying to respect the God of the Bible, but are having terms coming to grips with his righteous decisions.

And this can happen to anyone with limited information. Even his command to abstain from sexual immorality to many seems a ridiculous moral rule. But when God issues commands it is for the good of everyone. He is a God of love and would never do anything inappropriate. The question is do you really have faith this is the case? If you don't, then study of the Bible, reflection of God's qualities, and prayer for his holy spirit and wisdom and discernment will help you.

Abraham thought as you did. It is written in the Bible for us. When God sent the 3 angels to inform the faithful man Abraham what he intended to do to Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham, perhaps such as you, protested:

"Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there are 50 righteous men within the city. Will you, then, sweep them away and not pardon the place for the sake of the 50 righteous who are inside it? 25 It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner by putting the righteous man to death with the wicked one so that the outcome for the righteous man and the wicked is the same! It is unthinkable of you. Will the Judge of all the earth not do what is right?”-Genesis 18:23-25.

Now Jehovah did not reprehend Abraham for questioning him. And Abraham knowing Jehovah knew that he would never kill the righteous along with the wicked. If you read the account Jehovah patiently let Abraham plead with him, until he said that if there were 10 righteous men in the city he would not destroy it on account of the ten.

Do you see the point? Jehovah does not kill haphazardly. In fact he is generous in the fact that he will preserve a wicked city if 10 righteous men were found in it.

There is another account that shows us that God does not kill indiscriminately. And that has to do with a prophecy given to Ezekiel. There Jehovah showed the prophet Ezekiel all of the detestable disgusting things his people were doing, starting in the temple sanctuary, and then on out into the entire city. Horrible things, idol worship, usury, murder, bribery, all kinds of vile things you can imagine. And now Jehovah was going to bring to account all of the wicked people doing their wicked deeds. But did he sweep away the righteous along with the wicked? No, note what Jehovah first commands the angel with the secretary's inkhorn to do:

"And he began calling out to the man who was clothed in linen, at whose waist was the secretary’s inkhorn. Jehovah said to him: “Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the city.”-Ezekiel 9:3-4.


So the angel with the secretary's inkhorn was to go throughout the city and leave a mark on the forehead of all those "sighing and groaning over all the detestable things" that were being done in Jerusalem. Why? Well next the six angels with weapons for smashing were commissioned to go throughout the city and to put to death all of the wicked people, but the righteous ones were to be spared:

"And to the others he said in my hearing: “Go through the city after him and strike. Do not let your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion.  Old man, young man, virgin, little child, and women you should kill off completely. But do not go near to any man on whom there is the mark. You should start from my sanctuary.” So they started with the elders who were in front of the house.  Then he said to them: “Defile the house and fill the courtyards with the slain. Go!” So they went out and struck down people in the city."-Ezekiel 9:5-7.

So Jehovah knows how to reserve the wicked for destruction but how to save people of godly devotion:

"So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment, 10 especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority."-2 Peter 2:9-10.

Jehovah would never act wickedly. He is a just and righteous God, all of his ways are pure and upright:

"The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he."
-Deuteronomy 32:4.

Instead of condemning the righteous and good God who would never do anything wrong, it would be good to trust his good and wise judicial decisions. Even if you have not done the investigation as to why, or even are able to know everyone's heart as does God, you can trust when he makes a decision he is wholly just and righteous in what he decides.

Not only that though, God is loving and extremely merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in loving kindness:

“Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”-Exodus 34:6-7.

And although his burning anger flares up and is brief, his mercy and his love extend on into eternity.

This is how God truly views the putting to death of any human:

“‘I do not take any pleasure in the death of anyone,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. ‘So turn back and live.’”-Ezekiel 18:32.

That doesn't change the fact that God leaves people confused, feeling abandoned by him, refuses to heal and enlighten people, or protect them from the Devil, which is a huge reason why there is so much evil in our world!

Catholics swear they have the truth, Protestants call the Catholic Church "Whore of Babylon, Prostitute", and yet they get their Bible from the Catholic Church.

Catholics call Protestants Heretics!

The only Church that dates back to the time of Christ, is the Catholic Church!

Christianity is a divided, ugly, confusing mess! God is absolutely at fault because he doesn't give simple instructions!

The Bible is unreliable and says verses that say the opposite of other verses! Scripture divides people.

God lives in luxury , and refuses to be a simple guide and teacher and friend! It is thoroughly disgusting what he has done to torture and confuse the world!