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Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
"Accuse"?

Grief! Where did I say you didn't know? Where?

I asked a question, if you knew.

More inaccuracies....
Right here where you demonstrated that you did not (hopefully you followed the link that I provided) the meaning of "Semitic":

"Egypt was never Semitic! (BTW, what does Semitic mean? Do you know?)"
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
"Misuse"? Why? I find the things you write funny.

In a sad way, but whatever.

So, why do you plagiarize quotes?

And see, I DO mean plagiarize quotes. Because YOU did not read the source, find a quote, and present it with citation. You copy-paste what you find on creationist websites - complete with ellipses and such.

Why do you do that?

If the quote falsely represents the author's meaning of a certain fact, then it is wrong to do so...but prove it.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
The armchair critics are a dime a dozen OB.

Wow... Talk about a lack of introspection...
Insults are supposed to replace evidence and anything offered in defence of creation is completely dismissed out of hand.
Projection, as usual.

You cannot UNDERSTAND the evidence, as you have in effect admitted. You ignore evidence. You are one of the biggest insulters on this forum. Like I said, projection.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And FYI, @Subduction Zone , Semitic means "descendant of Shem" and "of or from Shem".

The Egyptians were Hamitic.
LOL! Oh my, you did not follow the link And no, the Egyptians are not descended from a mythical person, but that is another topic where you are entirely wrong. You do not seem to understand how language works now. The word "Semitic" is not based upon a myth these days. It means, and I guess I need to quote, which is much easier now that I am not on a tablet:

From the link that I provided earlier:

"Definition of Semitic
(Entry 1 of 2)

1: of, relating to, or constituting a subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic language family that includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, and Amharic

2: of, relating to, or characteristic of the Semites

3: JEWISH"

Please note, only the third, and therefore least popular usage, means "Jewish". At one point the word may have had the meaning that you are using. That is no longer the case. And when they say that Egypt is Semitic they are saying that they use either Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, or Amharic. The last time I checked the main language spoken in Egypt was Egyptian Arabic.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Right here where you demonstrated that you did not (hopefully you followed the link that I provided) the meaning of "Semitic":

"Egypt was never Semitic! (BTW, what does Semitic mean? Do you know?)"
Exactly!

It wasn't an accusation, was it?

And I read the Wikipedia article before you ever posted it!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If the quote falsely represents the author's meaning of a certain fact, then it is wrong to do so...but prove it.
He is pointing out that you are violating the rules of the forum here. One cannot plagiarize. Nor is one to quote huge walls of text. Do you need me to find that rule for you? You could be reported for such action just as one could be reported for personal attacks.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Exactly!

It wasn't an accusation, was it?

And I read the Wikipedia article before you ever posted it!
Yes, it was an implied accusation. Your English skills cannot be that poor. And you read the Wiki article but did not understand it. At least it seems that way. I would not want to call you a liar. It contradicted your claims.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
If the quote falsely represents the author's meaning of a certain fact, then it is wrong to do so...but prove it.
You are purposefully ignoring what I actually wrote -

So, why do you plagiarize quotes?

And see, I DO mean plagiarize quotes. Because YOU did not read the source, find a quote, and present it with citation. You copy-paste what you find on creationist websites - complete with ellipses and such.

Why do you do that?

You have not read the books or other sources that you post quotes from - you know how we can tell? Because we can use THE GOOGLE and find the sources you have copy-pasted from. Verbatim. Ellipses and all. And you don;t cite which creationist source you copy-pasted from, so.... Plagiarism.

Why do you do that?

And why did you totally ignore my demolition of your Kay and Colbert quote and related topics?

Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective


Or here, where I also demolish your claims?

Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective

You know, it is easy to see when you flim-flam people...
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
My gosh...

That was beautiful. So clear an example of brainwashing is hard to find.
I got a kick out of the Watchtower's article, which appeals to its member's sense of satisfaction rather than the reasonability of following the evidence.

"Atheists, of course, have their counterarguments. Some shrug off the apparent fine-tuning in nature, saying: ‘Of course the observable universe is capable of supporting human life. If it weren’t, we wouldn’t be here to worry about it. So there’s really nothing to explain. We’re just here, and that’s all there is to it.’ But do you find that a satisfying explanation for our existence?"

"No, I don't find that satisfying. I say, to hell with the evidence! I want to feel good. So just lead us on with fallacious questions such as 'Is it reasonable to propose that the highly complex information in DNA sprang from nothing?' "

.
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
What gap?
The huge chasm that gives humans the ability to create all civilizations with laws and order, and to compose music and art, and to care for the aged with compassion and sentimentality, etc., etc....

...but primates just scratch their butts.

That gap.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Hmmmm.....so on purely circumstantial evidence you can make assumptions about pretty much everything? Is that what you are saying?

No and no. I was trying to explain the difference between evidence and proof to you. Should not have wasted my time by the looks of your reply.

You take a fossil here, and a fossil there, and make wild assumptions about relationship based on nothing but similarity in bone structure when you know full well that many creatures who are unrelated have the same basic bone structure?

No. You obviously have no intention of wanting to have a sensible discussion.

When design in nature is so good that science wants to copy it....they have to have intelligent men work out the mechanics of the design and then try to mimic it. This branch of science is called "Biomimetics". Here are a few examples.....

"A seagull does not freeze, even while standing on ice. How does this creature conserve its body heat? Part of the secret is in a fascinating design feature found in a number of animals that dwell in cold regions. It is called the countercurrent heat exchanger.

50

Heat transfers, remains in the body. Cold stays in the feet

What is a countercurrent heat exchanger? To understand it, picture two water pipes strapped closely together. Hot water flows in one pipe, and cold, in the other. If both the hot water and the cold water flow down the pipes in the same direction, about half of the heat from the hot water will transfer to the cold. However, if the hot water and the cold water flow in opposite directions, nearly all the heat will transfer from the hot water to the cold.

When a seagull stands on ice, the heat exchangers in its legs warm the blood as it returns from the bird’s cold feet. The heat exchangers conserve heat in the bird’s body and prevent heat loss from its feet. Arthur P. Fraas, a mechanical and aeronautical engineer, described this design as “one of the world’s most effective regenerative heat exchangers.”13 This design is so ingenious that human engineers have copied it."

"Orb-weaving spiders produce seven types of silk. The sturdiest, known as dragline silk, is lighter than cotton yet, ounce for ounce, is stronger than steel and tougher than Kevlar. If enlarged to the size of a football field, a web of dragline silk 0.4 inch (1 cm) thick with strands 1.6 inches (4 cm) apart could stop a jumbo jet in flight! Spiders produce dragline silk at room temperature, using water as a solvent."

"Using a brain the size of the tip of a ballpoint pen, the monarch butterfly migrates up to 1,800 miles (3,000 km) from Canada to a small patch of forest in Mexico. This butterfly relies on the sun to help it navigate, and it has the ability to compensate for the movement of the sun across the sky."

58

The gecko can cling to the smoothest of surfaces by using molecular forces.

Scientists created velcro using principles found in nature.

Humans use sonar echo location based on creatures like bats and dolphins...

Excerpts from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010232
[URL='https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010232']
[/URL]
[URL='https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010232'][/URL]

You might want to point out to your watchtower scientists that the bird they show is not a Seagull, it's a Silver Gull (Chroicocephalus novaehollandiae). It makes them look a tad silly.
Do all these things sound like fortunate flukes to you? If it takes intelligent scientific minds to copy what is so ingeniously designed in nature, how does it not require intelligence to design and construct the originals?

Tell me if that is logical to you.....?

No. They are examples of evolution. Why wouldn't humans try and copy something successful when possible?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
So.. I am but the 6th person to have checked out this book from our library since 1966...

Page 102-103. There is the YEC quote - several paragraphs ellipsed out for effect.

On page 106:

"The richest fauna in so-called Precambrian rocks in one from South Australia having coelenterates resembling modern jellyfish and seapens, annelid worms, and other strange creatures. Quite similar fossils have been found on quartzites in western England, and recently on Axel Heiberg Island in Arctic Canada."

"The Australian fossils do lie below beds having an early Cambrian fauna..."


Wow - PRECambrian fossils found in England, Austalia, and Canada. But golly, not enough not to be "puzzling"...

I think that is enough to prove my point. Your plagiarized quote is out of context, at best. Poor Hairbrain Yoyo (or whichever 'honest' creationist first came across this quote) did not bother to read a few pages more. Or they did and just know that their target audience won't bother to.



Yes - 4 pages later. See above. Stating that something is puzzling does not mean that something is false. Not that hard to figger' out.




It is amazing how much one can, you know, actually learn when one reads something other that YEC websites. Inspired by your out-of-context quote extravaganza, I googled this simple question:

'when were precambrian fossils discovered' and got a host of information - and not a YEC lie site in sight.


Now, even that 1965 book acknowledged some Precambrian fossils, so those authors' descriptions are fine for their time. But see, lots of things have happened since 1965, contrary to your silly assertion..

Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci. 2008 Apr 27; 363(1496): 1425–1434.

The earliest fossil record of the animals and its significance


is a nice resource. Tons of references to actual research, not books published for public consumption.

Like this one (emphasis mine):

Journal of Paleontology 74(5):767-788. 2000

PHOSPHATIZED ANIMAL EMBRYOS FROM THE NEOPROTEROZOIC DOUSHANTUO FORMATION AT WENG'AN, GUIZHOU, SOUTH CHINA

[FYI - NEOPROTEROZOIC is Precambrian]


or this one:

Precambrian Sponges with Cellular Structures
Science 06 Feb 1998

"The fauna indicates that animals lived 40 to 50 million years before the Cambrian Explosion."



I believe that 1998 and 2000 are more recent than 1965. Yes?

It is funny that you also quoted Gould's "Panda's Thumb" (1980) - in 1990, he wrote "Wonderful Life", which was largely about the Precambrian.

Can't wait for more quotes of dubious relevance and context that we can expose!


Oh - and a reminder:

YOU WROTE:

Too much diversity exists, for evolution to reasonably explain and account for. No undirected, mindless force could greatly mutate these organisms, and still maintain the balance in nature that exists.


I asked you to imagine that I understand biology but know nothing of evolution and to EXPLAIN what you wrote to me. And you didn't.
So, you think these Precambrian organisms are "obvious" precursors?

I guess they gotta be, to support your pov. Lol.

No wonder Gould and Eldridge came up with punctuated equilibrium, since gradualism failed to explain what was observed.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
You might want to point out to your watchtower scientists that the bird they show is not a Seagull, it's a Silver Gull (Chroicocephalus novaehollandiae). It makes them look a tad silly.

Silver gull - Wikipedia

That article says it is "the most common gull seen in Australia".

"Gull" is a link....tap on it, then read it.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So, you think these Precambrian organisms are "obvious" precursors?

I guess they gotta be, to support your pov. Lol.

No wonder Gould and Eldridge came up with punctuated equilibrium, since gradualism failed to explain what was observed.
Sounds like you need to read the Gould quote that you butchered, in its entirety. Plus all the other links I (and others) have provided for you.
 
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