Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

[Ben Dhyan]

So this is how I've always understood it...hence my sig line. It has always baffled me how anyone could even imagine that you can get something from nothing.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. In the beginning, everything in existence is thought to have occupied a single infinitely dense point, or singularity. Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe officially begin.

Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

Ali and coauthor Saurya Das at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, have shown in a paper published in Physics Letters B that the Big Bang singularity can be resolved by their new model in which the universe has no beginning and no end.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

 

[leibowde84]

So this is how I've always understood it...hence my sig line. It has always baffled me how anyone could even imagine that you can get something from nothing.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. In the beginning, everything in existence is thought to have occupied a single infinitely dense point, or singularity. Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe officially begin.

Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

Ali and coauthor Saurya Das at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, have shown in a paper published in Physics Letters B that the Big Bang singularity can be resolved by their new model in which the universe has no beginning and no end.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

Vey interesting stuff. It always bewilders me when believers claim that a current lack of explanation for the creation of the universe in natural terms somehow provides proof for the supernatural. Discoveries like this truly show how ignorant we are as a species still.

 

[jeager106]

Vey interesting stuff. It always bewilders me when believers claim that a current lack of explanation for the creation of the universe in natural terms somehow provides proof for the supernatural. Discoveries like this truly show how ignorant we are as a species still.

Re: ^^^^^ Some believers atribute the unexplainable to some supernatural cause, i.e. the great god of__________________(insert god of choice).
I'm a Christian believer but hardly mainstream and haven't had a problem with a Higher Power and the fascinating world of science. For me science and faith blend.
Wasn't it the Scopes Monkey trail where one of the budding atheist said " an ape reached up high in a tree and plucked fruit, then reached high into the night sky to retrieve a star, could not, thus god was born."?

 

[leibowde84]

Re: ^^^^^ Some believers atribute the unexplainable to some supernatural cause, i.e. the great god of__________________(insert god of choice).
I'm a Christian believer but hardly mainstream and haven't had a problem with a Higher Power and the fascinating world of science. For me science and faith blend.
Wasn't it the Scopes Monkey trail where one of the budding atheist said " an ape reached up high in a tree and plucked fruit, then reached high into the night sky to retrieve a star, could not, thus god was born."?

I think we might be kindred spirits, buddy. Not in the way of the Ancient Greeks, but I think we agree about quite a bit more than most.

 

[gnostic]

So this is how I've always understood it...hence my sig line. It has always baffled me how anyone could even imagine that you can get something from nothing.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. In the beginning, everything in existence is thought to have occupied a single infinitely dense point, or singularity. Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe officially begin.

Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

Ali and coauthor Saurya Das at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, have shown in a paper published in Physics Letters B that the Big Bang singularity can be resolved by their new model in which the universe has no beginning and no end.

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

The Big Bang only cover what happen after the beginning of expansion, and not before the Big Bang.

The Big Bang theory doesn't say what the singularity is, NOR do the theory say anything about the "something" being created or formed out of "nothing".

There are a number of hypotheses as to what ithe singularity is, but these hypotheses are all unverifiable, but none of these hypotheses about the singularity are ACTUALLY COVERED by the theory of Big Bang, so what you are claiming about "something-out-of-nothing" or the article you have quoted relate to the Big Bang, so the claims are meaningless.

This model (about the universe existing forever), like all other hypotheses about the singularity, is unverifiable and untested.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Vey interesting stuff. It always bewilders me when believers claim that a current lack of explanation for the creation of the universe in natural terms somehow provides proof for the supernatural. Discoveries like this truly show how ignorant we are as a species still.

But what is supernatural? Whenever I see someone using this word, I am reminded of..Arthur C Clarke's 3rd law that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic relative a less advance.

 

[Nietzsche]

I've posted this several times but here goes again, sigh;

The nature of this question is inherently unanswerable because it relies on a condition, that condition being the existence of time. Without time first, you can't have a "before", "after" or "present". Time came into being when the universe did. Therefore, it has by definition always existed.

 

[leibowde84]

The Big Bang only cover what happen after the beginning of expansion, and not before the Big Bang.

The Big Bang theory doesn't say what the singularity is, NOR do the theory say anything about the "something" being created or formed out of "nothing".

There are a number of hypotheses as to what ithe singularity is, but these hypotheses are all unverifiable, but none of these hypotheses about the singularity are ACTUALLY COVERED by the theory of Big Bang, so what you are claiming about "something-out-of-nothing" or the article you have quoted relate to the Big Bang, so the claims are meaningless.

This model (about the universe existing forever), like all other hypotheses about the singularity, is unverifiable and untested.

Sure it is, but, as long as it "makes sense" logically and mathematically, it is just as valid as any supernatural explanation ... maybe more so.

 

[leibowde84]

But what is supernatural? Whenever I see someone using this word, I am reminded of..Arthur C Clarke's 3rd law that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic relative a less advance.

Sure, something might appear to be supernatural like an advanced piece of macinery, but that is merely a subjective assessment without objective meaning. Something is supernatural if it exists outside the laws of nature, not merely that it appears to exist in this way.

SUPERNATURAL. 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the observable universe.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The Big Bang only cover what happen after the beginning of expansion, and not before the Big Bang.

This model (about the universe existing forever), like all other hypotheses about the singularity, is unverifiable and untested.

But the article says there was no big bang, nor a singularity....but by all means continue with your belief in them if it suits you for now....

 

[Skwim]

Predictions are always an ify thing.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Something is supernatural if it exists outside the laws of nature, not merely that it appears to exist in this way.

SUPERNATURAL. 1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the observable universe.

But it is only outside the laws of nature as misunderstood by the less advanced, it would still be natural from the perspective of the more advanced.

But I understand what you mean...it is a relative term appropriate for the less advanced species' language who are ignorant of the bigger picture..

 

[JRMcC]

The Big Bang only cover what happen after the beginning of expansion, and not before the Big Bang.

Do you believe what they say about time being created along with the big bang? It's a tough concept.

 

[leibowde84]

But it is only outside the laws of nature as misunderstood by the less advanced, it would still be natural from the perspective of the more advanced.

But I understand what you mean...it is a relative term appropriate for the less advanced species' language who are ignorant of the bigger picture..

The supernatural, to the best of anyone's knowledge (not belief, theology, or philosophy) does not exist. Is that the problem you are having? When something is thought to be supernatural (e.g., natural disasters), we end up finding out that they are, indeed, natural.

 

[Ouroboros]

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

That's tough luck for "First Cause" argument.

 

[Nietzsche]

Do you believe what they say about time being created along with the big bang? It's a tough concept.

We've no reason to assume it existed before the universe.

 

[metis]

I can't remember which one, so don't ask, but one cosmologist I've read says that most of his colleagues believe infinity is involved, which is slightly older than I.

 

[JRMcC]

Yeah. I don't have an interest in trying to prove this one way or the other, but I don't think

We've no reason to assume it existed before the universe.

is saying much. We just can't know if anything exists outside this universe or what it would be like. I have no reason to think any significant event took place in the apartment above me within the last 20 minutes, but that doesn't mean anything one way or the other. Know what I mean?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The supernatural, to the best of anyone's knowledge (not belief, theology, or philosophy) does not exist. Is that the problem you are having? When something is thought to be supernatural (e.g., natural disasters), we end up finding out that they are, indeed, natural.

It seems we are in agreement, just that I express it differently..

 

[Sunstone]

Of course, the key questions raised here are (for the Japanese) whether we can get a smaller, more powerful calculator out of these findings, and (for the Americans) whether we can get a bigger, better bomb from them.