Question about 4:157

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum,

I have a question (yet another one) for my Muslim poster friends.

When I read 4:157, it talks about the crucifixion of Jesus, which Islam teaches did not happen.

4:157

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Why does the verse say "and they did not kill him nor ("and not" according to the word-for-word translation) did they crucify him"?

Crucifixion was a form of capital punishment. Wouldn't crucifying a person automatically mean killing him?

Thanks.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Salaam Alaikum,

I have a question (yet another one) for my Muslim poster friends.

When I read 4:157, it talks about the crucifixion of Jesus, which Islam teaches did not happen.

4:157

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Why does the verse say "and they did not kill him nor ("and not" according to the word-for-word translation) did they crucify him"?

Crucifixion was a form of capital punishment. Wouldn't crucifying a person automatically mean killing him?

Thanks.

We do know somebody was crucified and those present believed it was Jesus(as) but it was not Jesus(as).
what we do not know is why did the people believe it was Jesus(as) and why did they not recognize it was not Jesus(as)'

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum,

I have a question (yet another one) for my Muslim poster friends.

When I read 4:157, it talks about the crucifixion of Jesus, which Islam teaches did not happen.

4:157

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

Why does the verse say "and they did not kill him nor ("and not" according to the word-for-word translation) did they crucify him"?

Crucifixion was a form of capital punishment. Wouldn't crucifying a person automatically mean killing him?

Thanks.

Killing means to cause someone to die, so yes Jesus wasn't alive after the crucifixion but not due to them.
nor did they crucify him, means his death wasn't due to the crucifixion.

It means that God get him and not them.

 

[TG123456]

We do know somebody was crucified and those present believed it was Jesus(as) but it was not Jesus(as).
what we do not know is why did the people believe it was Jesus(as) and why did they not recognize it was not Jesus(as)'

Salaam Alaikum my friend, great to hear from you again! I understand Islam teaches that someone was crucified and that person was not Jesus, but I am curious why does the verse repeats itelf, by stating that He was not killed, and He was not crucified. Since crucifixion is a form of killing, would it not be obvious that if Jesus hadn't been killed, he obviously wasn't crucified also?

I mean imagine if I wrote "John did not have eyes, nor did he see his mother". If he didn't have eyes, he obviously couldn't see his mother, right? Or is there something I am missing here?

Glad you are well btw, I haven't heard from you in a while my friend, take care.

 

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum.

Killing means to cause someone to die, so yes Jesus wasn't alive after the crucifixion but not due to them.
nor did they crucify him, means his death wasn't due to the crucifixion.

It means that God get him and not them.

Killing means to cause someone to die. To crucify someone means to make them die in a very horrific way.

If someone has not been killed, he obviously also cannot have been crucified. In Ancient Rome, crucifixion was used as a form of capital punishment.

I find it interesting that you say Jesus wasn't alive after crucifixion, and that God "got him". I was under the impression Muslims believe he was not put on the cross but someone else was, and that he was taken to heaven alive. Do you believe he died on the cross?

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum.


Killing means to cause someone to die. To crucify someone means to make them die in a very horrific way.

If someone has not been killed, he obviously also cannot have been crucified. In Ancient Rome, crucifixion was used as a form of capital punishment.

I find it interesting that you say Jesus wasn't alive after crucifixion, and that God "got him". I was under the impression Muslims believe he was not put on the cross but someone else was, and that he was taken to heaven alive. Do you believe he died on the cross?

I believe that we consist of body and soul.

In one verse God said that he caused Jesus to die, and in one other verse he said they didn't kill him nor crucify him but imagined so, so what had happened.

From this scenario and reading the story in the bible i reached to a conclusion that Jesus body was seen and witnessed during the crucifixion and the quran confirms he wasn't Jesus, so who was he, and how his body is Jesus' body.

According to some Islamic sources it says he was Judas Iscariot, but how Judas will look like Jesus as what they saw was Jesus and not Judas?

God exchanged the souls, Judas got Jesus' body and Jesus got Judas' body.

That explains to me why Jesus was shouting and crying why God left him, he wasn't Jesus but Judas.
They said that Judas had committed a suicide shortly after the crucifixion but actually he was crucified instead of Jesus.

 

[TG123456]

I believe that we consist of body and soul.

In one verse God said that he caused Jesus to die, and in one other verse he said they didn't kill him nor crucify him but imagined so, so what had happened.

From this scenario and reading the story in the bible i reached to a conclusion that Jesus body was seen and witnessed during the crucifixion and the quran confirms he wasn't Jesus, so who was he, and how his body is Jesus' body.

According to some Islamic sources it says he was Judas Iscariot, but how Judas will look like Jesus as what they saw was Jesus and not Judas?

God exchanged the souls, Judas got Jesus' body and Jesus got Judas' body.

That explains to me why Jesus was shouting and crying why God left him, he wasn't Jesus but Judas.
They said that Judas had committed a suicide shortly after the crucifixion but actually he was crucified instead of Jesus.

Salaam Alaikum, FearGod.

Which verse says that God caused Jesus to die?

The theory about Judas and Jesus being exchanged is an interesting one, it had been around before the Quran was written.

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum, FearGod.

Which verse says that God caused Jesus to die?

The theory about Judas and Jesus being exchanged is an interesting one, it had been around before the Quran was written.

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.(3:55)

 

[TG123456]

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.(3:55)

Thanks for sharing this. I have heard many Muslims say that Jesus was taken to heaven alive and will die after his second coming.