Question about Drag Queens

[LeftyLen]

If guys want to dress up as women and frolic around in the context of a club, a theater venue, their homes that is not my or the governments business. When its promoted in schools or the public, that is another matter. I ask this, if I beat up someone i will be arrested for assault, if a cop beats up someone, they are paid, why? If i am painted up riding a bike in public, I would be arrested for public indecent behavior.. If i am painted up riding a bike nude in public in a parade in June, that's acceptable, why?

 

[Argentbear]

If guys want to dress up as women and frolic around in the context of a club, a theater venue, their homes that is not my or the governments business. When its promoted in schools or the public, that is another matter.

What specifically are you saying is promoted in schools?

 

[Magic Man]

100 years ago, when actors freeman Gosden and Charles Correll put on black makeup, an afro wig, ragged clothes and did a caricature of their interpretation of black people for entertainment purposes, they called those Minstrel Shows, and eventually black people found these acts offensive, and today Minstrel shows are no more, they have been regulated to the long list of shameful examples of America’s dark, racist, past.

Today we have men putting on female makeup, female wigs, female clothes doing a caricature of their interpretation of women for entertainment purposes and we call them Drag Shows; yet nobody complains! Why? How is this different? Why aren’t feminists finding these acts offensive and complaining about it? Why are Minstrel shows offensive, but Drag shows are not?

First, Black people didn't "eventually" find minstrel shows and blackface offensive. They always have, since it started. It's just that for a long time, white people/the mainstream didn't know or care.

Second, this has got to be the weirdest comparison I've seen in a long time. Blackface was about making fun of Black people with racist stereotypes. Drag is about glamming up and being something different. It's part of the drag queens' personality. It's not a "caricature of their interpretation of women". They're not doing it to insult women.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

100 years ago, when actors freeman Gosden and Charles Correll put on black makeup, an afro wig, ragged clothes and did a caricature of their interpretation of black people for entertainment purposes, they called those Minstrel Shows, and eventually black people found these acts offensive, ...

Eventually? By what method of divination did you ascertain what Black people thought or felt about these mistral shows before and after they "eventually ... found these acts offensive"?

 

[Soandso]

If guys want to dress up as women and frolic around in the context of a club, a theater venue, their homes that is not my or the governments business. When its promoted in schools or the public, that is another matter.

Why? It's just theater

I ask this, if I beat up someone i will be arrested for assault, if a cop beats up someone, they are paid, why?

I'm not sure how this is relevant. Maybe you can unpack your thoughts for me?

If i am painted up riding a bike in public, I would be arrested for public indecent behavior.. If i am painted up riding a bike nude in public in a parade in June, that's acceptable, why?

I'm not sure how this is relevant to drag shows in schools, either. Are you equating drag events to stripping? If you ever see actual drag story times at public libraries they are tastefully done with adults/parents present

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Another misconception needs to be cleared up. Drag queen is not the same thing as transgender. They can be related to one another but on their own they're different things going on.

Yes. Drag is a performing art. It bothers me that it gets lumped in with trans.

 

[Kfox]

the motivation of each

People are offended before they understand the intent

 

[Kfox]

It's your journey of discovery.

No; I think the non feminist are the wrong people to ask.

 

[Kfox]

First, Black people didn't "eventually" find minstrel shows and blackface offensive. They always have, since it started. It's just that for a long time, white people/the mainstream didn't know or care.

If blacks were always offended by such shows, why did they participate in them? Many black actors wore black face themselves ya know.

Second, this has got to be the weirdest comparison I've seen in a long time. Blackface was about making fun of Black people with racist stereotypes. Drag is about glamming up and being something different. It's part of the drag queens' personality. It's not a "caricature of their interpretation of women". They're not doing it to insult women.

I will admit I've never been to a drag show, so I don't know what goes on there, but whenever I see a drag queen, they never look like women; they don't dress like real women, they don't wear their makeup like real women, it's almost as if they don't even try to look like real women, like they're trying to look like a caricature of a real woman

 

[Kfox]

Eventually? By what method of divination did you ascertain what Black people thought or felt about these mistral shows before and after they "eventually ... found these acts offensive"?

Mistrial Shows actually started while there was still slavery in the USA. I think slaves had bigger fish to fry than complaining about white actors putting on black make up pretending to be them.

 

[Argentbear]

People are offended before they understand the intent

you are attending a sporting event, among the crowd with you are a group of white college age individuals in blackface what non offensive intent can you assign to them?

 

[Argentbear]

No; I think the non feminist are the wrong people to ask.

Do you have any reason other than they don't agree with you?

 

[crossfire]

No; I think the non feminist are the wrong people to ask.

Suit yourself.

 

[Magic Man]

If blacks were always offended by such shows, why did they participate in them? Many black actors wore black face themselves ya know.

Not many, no. And because a large group of people is not a monolith. Trump is extremely misogynistic, and yet millions of women support him. Some Black people participating doesn't even mean much. It makes me think of the show GLOW. It's a fictional show about women's wrestling in the 80s. They got successful by playing characters (caricatures). There is a Black woman in the production who is forced to play the "welfare queen". She is conflicted about it because she doesn't want to do it and doesn't want to feed into that stupid, false stereotype, but on the other hand, she needs the job.

I will admit I've never been to a drag show, so I don't know what goes on there, but whenever I see a drag queen, they never look like women; they don't dress like real women, they don't wear their makeup like real women, it's almost as if they don't even try to look like real women, like they're trying to look like a caricature of a real woman

That is often the case. They can be very glammed up and not meant to look like an average woman on an average day. But they're not trying to look like a caricature of a woman. They're getting into character. They're not making fun of anyone, just being their authentic selves.

 

[Magic Man]

Mistrial Shows actually started while there was still slavery in the USA. I think slaves had bigger fish to fry than complaining about white actors putting on black make up pretending to be them.

As expected, this thread is not in good faith. You're not interested in learning about the subject and expanding your knowledge. You're trying to make a bad-faith point and will argue with anyone who tries to explain it to you.

And one can be offended by one thing, even if there is something much more important going on. It's this thing humans can do, where we can care about multiple things at once.

 

[Magic Man]

People are offended before they understand the intent

Now they are because it has such a long and terrible history. At this point the "intent" doesn't really matter. Just don't do it. If in the future, things get to the point where its use is acceptable in certain situations, great. Until then, just avoid it.

 

[LeftyLen]

Why? It's just theater



I'm not sure how this is relevant. Maybe you can unpack your thoughts for me?



I'm not sure how this is relevant to drag shows in schools, either. Are you equating drag events to stripping? If you ever see actual drag story times at public libraries they are tastefully done with adults/parents present

Groomers . such things have no business in schools

 

[Soandso]

Groomers . such things have no business in schools

Describe to me how "grooming" is happening when drag performers perform in schools

 

[Soandso]

Groomers . such things have no business in schools

Describe to me how "grooming" is happening when drag performers perform in schools

Honestly, I don't think you know what the word "grooming/groomer" means and are just using homophobic buzzwords to try and legitimize your homophobia. That's great for convincing yourself for why it's bad but does very little to legitimize your position to others or to convince them

Also, don't think I've forgotten the examples of cops beating up people or people riding bikes nude while wearing body paint and how that relates to drag performers that you dropped. So far your reasoning is fragmented and pointless

 

[SkepticThinker]

Groomers . such things have no business in schools

Please elaborate in detail.
How is reading stories to kids in drag an example of grooming behaviour?