Question about God and hell

[LactoseIntolerant]

Yes, I can understand about someone being willfully ignorant, but I know a person who I would say has some form of 'arrested development', so is that person just 'willfull ' in proud mind or what can be the problem.

Those resurrected are transformed as per 1 John 3:2-3 "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure."

Yes, there seems to be No clear line but a blur between the Divine and the Profane.
I would Not say Christian toleration, but what 'Christendom' (so-called Christian - Matthew 7:21-23) tolerated.
'Christendom' being the post modernist or modern monstrosity that it is today.
When you say 'scholarly circles' that brings my mind back to the 60's and Columbia U. in NYC
In short, I said to one student 'if you don't like it here: leave'.
His atheistic response was to stay here (become a professor) and make it better.
So, how many such 'professors' has Columbia produced since the 60's teaching how to make it better here.
Over the decades parents have paid $$$$ to have such ' professors ' to teach atheistic ideas to their children.

The culture wars are profound. I paraphrase Stephen Meyer of Intelligent Design fame - Why after demonstrating evolution as theory in crisis, the Christian comes to its rescue under the guise of theistic evolution. It is ironic and telling of the forces at play.

Yes, an 'iron' rod (Rev. 2:27; 12:5; 10:15) and the 'sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' to rid the Earth of those who bring ruin to Earth ( literal, moral, religious ) - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 11:18 B

Revelation follows the format of old prophecies. Usually only one chapter long in the Old Testament. The target is identified, the deficits told and the oracle of consequences. The book of Apocalypse is an oracle (1 book long) against the 7 churches which is the faithful of the Body of Christ. It is both a message of hope (to endure) and call to repent (of our failings).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Those resurrected are transformed as per 1 John 3:2-3 "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure."
The culture wars are profound. I paraphrase Stephen Meyer of Intelligent Design fame - Why after demonstrating evolution as theory in crisis, the Christian comes to its rescue under the guise of theistic evolution. It is ironic and telling of the forces at play.
Revelation follows the format of old prophecies. Usually only one chapter long in the Old Testament. The target is identified, the deficits told and the oracle of consequences. The book of Apocalypse is an oracle (1 book long) against the 7 churches which is the faithful of the Body of Christ. It is both a message of hope (to endure) and call to repent (of our failings).

Yes, the 7 congregations have shortcomings on which needed improving, or to be worked on.
Yes, a message of hope (endure Matthew 24:13) and a message to repent ( 2 Peter 3:9 ).
Yes, the resurrected are transformed (Isaiah 35th chapter), for the majority of people to be on Earth.
Those who have that first or earlier resurrection (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10) will be like Jesus in that they have a heavenly resurrection as Jesus had.

God could have used some sort of evolution in lower life forms, but Not where human life is concerned.
God formed or fashioned man from the already created ground according to Genesis 2:7.
Man came to life only after God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Yes, the 7 congregations have shortcomings on which needed improving, or to be worked on.
Yes, a message of hope (endure Matthew 24:13) and a message to repent ( 2 Peter 3:9 ).

The 7 churches representing the faithful in Christ (Rome, Alexandria, Hieropolis etc were not mentioned in the book though they are historically more significant) . Hence, the Apocalypse is a prophecy against the faithful to Christ not the antichrists(heathens, sea). All the symbols in the Book of Revelation can only be understood by a Christian or jew. There are 3 spirits mentioned, rebukes against the 7 churches. The spirit of Balaam, the spirit of the Nicolaitans, and the spirit of Jezebel (Rev 2-3). I believe all 3 spirits live on in the churches today. Be wary these spirits, tainting the doctrines of churches today.

Yes, the resurrected are transformed (Isaiah 35th chapter), for the majority of people to be on Earth.
Those who have that first or earlier resurrection (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10) will be like Jesus in that they have a heavenly resurrection as Jesus had.

The martyrs will be first for sure, but I suspect they will have only an earthly existence for the 1000 years. The earthly kingdom of Jesus is in Rev 19:15-16 (rex with the iron rod). The new heaven is in Rev 21:1 and all the nations of antichrists are gone "there was no more sea". The tree of life that was taken away in Genesis is restored in Revelation.

God could have used some sort of evolution in lower life forms, but Not where human life is concerned.
God formed or fashioned man from the already created ground according to Genesis 2:7.
Man came to life only after God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam.

It is said that abiogenesis (life from inorganic materials) is a very very unlikely occurrence (see James Tour - Intelligent Design - Professor at Rice University (nano machines)). If the naturalist cannot even admit a slight possibility that evolution is unfeasible in billions of years, why should Christians accept that the Divine is "random" in any aspect. Both these are statements of faith. The randomness as proposed by evolutionists is an indicator of "nothing but chance". In other words the Divine is nothing but chance if the doctrine of evolution is permitted to creep into the Scriptural interpretations. This is nicolaitan-ish as it involves the spirit of illuminati(on) to argue this doctrine. I have rejected evolution based on mathematical arguments, so to me the primary question to me is why are Christians embracing the faith of the scientism.

God is Spirit. God gave man the "Image of the Spirit". Only the Spirit (of God) in man can recognize the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11. God gave Adam a soul with which he can see God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The 7 churches representing the faithful in Christ (Rome, Alexandria, Hieropolis etc were not mentioned in the book though they are historically more significant) . Hence, the Apocalypse is a prophecy against the faithful to Christ not the antichrists(heathens, sea). All the symbols ............. The new heaven is in Rev 21:1 and all the nations of antichrists are gone "there was no more sea". The tree of life that was taken away in Genesis is restored in Revelation..............
God is Spirit. God gave man the "Image of the Spirit". Only the Spirit (of God) in man can recognize the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11. God gave Adam a soul with which he can see God.

In Genesis I find God did Not give Adam a soul, but rather Adam became a living soul - Genesis 2:7
In other words, all of Adam was a living soul, and at death Adam became a dead soul, a life-less soul or person.
Adam sinned and the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20.
Adam ' returned ' (ALL of Adam ) 'returned ' to the dust where he started - Genesis 3:19.
A person can Not ' return' to a place he never was before.
No post-mortem life for Adam, and No double jeopardy in death for Adam or anyone else.

The 'sea' that will be No more I find is the restless sea of wicked humanity - Revelation 17:1,15; Isaiah 57:20

I find the 7 congregations of Revelation deal with:
1 - Pergamum
2 - Smyrna
3 - Thyatira
4 - Ephesus
5 - Sardis
6 - Laodicea
7 - Philidelphia

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

Because some would choose him. And it was worth the cost to him, to have those relationships.

 

[Brian2]

That is all part of Discovering what the best answers really are.

There are people who scratch and claw to get get get. They have not learned that people who give receive much more than those who claw.

A very self centered person needs to be very careful. They might just end up alone.

I knew a very self centered man. People would come into his life, but never seemed to stay long. Even his own dog bit him. I did my best to help and point him in the right direction, however some souls must Live the Lesson. He wasn't listening.

Still life is a Great Learning process. Everyone moves forward Living those Lessons. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan! This sets everyone up for the optimum learning through life.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Some people learn and some don't and God will judge. Some will be judged unworthy and others will be judged worthy of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Brian2]

...

When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)
What do you say?

That man is more than just dust. Even at the creation we see that God breathed spirit into Adam. The made part of man returns to the dust from which it was made, the unmade part lives on according to Jesus.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
This soul is the part that is said to go to hades, the place of the dead, the place that Jesus spoke about. (Luke 16:19-31)
This is the place where Samuel was resting before God sent him back to speak with Saul (1Sam 28:3-25)
Nowhere in the Bible does death mean to go out of existence,,,,,,,,,,,,,,except maybe the second death in the lake of fire.
Without a spirit part to carry on from one body to the next there can be no resurrection.

 

[Brian2]

Everyone considered to be in ' biblical hell ' (the grave for the sleeping dead - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18) is resurrected.
To me, resurrection is Not true for the ones committing the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32.
Also, I see No resurrection for the ones executed by the 'sword-like words from Jesus' mouth' -> Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15

I think all the dead will be raised to be judged. (Rev 20:12) Even Jesus said that all those in the graves will hear His voice and be resurrected and I don't think that means only those who were buried in a tomb. All the righteous and all the unrighteous will be raised according to the Bible, even those who have committed the unforgivable sin (surely they are the ones who will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Even those whom God or Jesus has killed, they will be raised so that they and everyone will be able to see why they were killed and to hear a final verdict over them.

 

[Bird123]

Some people learn and some don't and God will judge. Some will be judged unworthy and others will be judged worthy of the Kingdom of God.

How little do you really Understand God. What is more important: your children or a need to punish, hurt, and condemn because you do not get your way?

God loves His children Unconditionally. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. There is no action or choice a person could make that would cause God to Hate or Condemn. You have allowed religion to corrupt your thinking.

People can choose hard lessons for themselves on the path to Discovering what those best choices really are. That is no excuse to hate and condemn. Hate will solve nothing. In time, each will Discover that the price for hate is always too high!!

In reality, the only one who is going to judge you will be yourself.

Finally, THINK! If God can create universes, what are a few wayward children making bad choices?

Everyone will learn, in time, how to create that heavenly state for themselves. One must purge all those petty things mankind holds so dear before that will be possible. Yes, there is a long way to go, however one will get there even making baby steps. There has never ever been a time limit on learning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

In Genesis I find God did Not give Adam a soul, but rather Adam became a living soul - Genesis 2:7
In other words, all of Adam was a living soul, and at death Adam became a dead soul, a life-less soul or person.
Adam sinned and the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20.
Adam ' returned ' (ALL of Adam ) 'returned ' to the dust where he started - Genesis 3:19.
A person can Not ' return' to a place he never was before.
No post-mortem life for Adam, and No double jeopardy in death for Adam or anyone else.

The Image of God was specifically given to the creature man.

Gen 1:27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The soul is distinct from the body.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This is from a jewish learning site (forgot to mark down citation from web). The breath used in Adam's creation is different.

...Genesis 1:30 "...everything that has the breath [h5315 נֶ֣פֶשׁ nephesh] of life [h2416 חַיָּ֔ה chay] in it..."
...translated literally in English as Spirit-of Living or "Living Spirit".

...Genesis 2:7 "...breathed the breath [h5397 נִשְׁמַ֣ת neshamah] of life [h2416 חַיִּ֑ים chay] into his nostrils, ..."
... literally translated in English as "Soul-of Life".

The 'sea' that will be No more I find is the restless sea of wicked humanity - Revelation 17:1,15; Isaiah 57:20

I find the 7 congregations of Revelation deal with:
1 - Pergamum
2 - Smyrna
3 - Thyatira
4 - Ephesus
5 - Sardis
6 - Laodicea
7 - Philidelphia

Yes. The sea does not know Christ. They are absurd and will not acknowledge the Truth. (From a debate between atheist and William Lane Craig...atheist:incredible events require incredible evidence... WLC:so you are saying no evidence is sufficient?)
Revelation's 7 congregations do not exist anymore. Six exist under the metropolis of Constantinople and the other is in Syria under another metropolis. The 7 churches are before the Throne of God, but has no representation on earth at this time. If my conjecture that the Apocalypse is a prophesy against the churches, then there must exist the 7 churches in history. As I believe the prophesy is not yet fulfilled, then the 7 churches should still exist. As they do not exist. I contend these churches with the associated spirits are therefore in us (Jerusalem temple was destroyed and the oblations continue within our spiritual temples).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How little do you really Understand God. What is more important: your children or a need to punish, hurt, and condemn because you do not get your way?
God loves His children Unconditionally. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. There is no action or choice a person could make that would cause God to Hate or Condemn. You have allowed religion to corrupt your thinking.
People can choose hard lessons for themselves on the path to Discovering what those best choices really are. That is no excuse to hate and condemn. Hate will solve nothing. In time, each will Discover that the price for hate is always too high!!.................!

To me there is a difference between punish (cruel) and discipline for the sake of righteousness.
I like what Mohandas Gandhi stated:
' Suppose a person runs amuck and goes about with sowrd in hand, killing who comes in his way, but No one tries or dares to capture him alive. Anyone who captures this person will earn the gratitude of the community and be regarded as a benevolent man.' So, to me Ghandi saw the need for force under some circumstances.

From the very beginning, the God of the Bible loved humanity giving us a beautiful paradisical Earth.
However, everlasting life was Not without a condition to be met. This is why Adam & Eve are Not alive today.
It was Not because of hate for Adam & Eve but for the sake of righteousness.
Earth is only for humble meek people who would Not bring ruin to Earth ( moral or literal ruin )
This is why God will bring to ruing those people who bring ruin to Earth - Revelation 11:18 B

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think all the dead will be raised to be judged. (Rev 20:12) Even Jesus said that all those in the graves will hear His voice and be resurrected and I don't think that means only those who were buried in a tomb. All the righteous and all the unrighteous will be raised according to the Bible, even those who have committed the unforgivable sin (surely they are the ones who will be thrown into the lake of fire.
Even those whom God or Jesus has killed, they will be raised so that they and everyone will be able to see why they were killed and to hear a final verdict over them.

We don't know who has committed the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12:32.
'graves' can mean tombs but also the watery deep, atomic bomb, etc.
Yes, as Acts 24:15 says both the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected.
So, after resurrection, judgement can prove to be: a favorable judgement or an adverse judgement.
As far as the wicked they will be: destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That man is more than just dust. Even at the creation we see that God breathed spirit into Adam. The made part of man returns to the dust from which it was made, the unmade part lives on according to Jesus.
Matt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
This soul is the part that is said to go to hades, the place of the dead, the place that Jesus spoke about. (Luke 16:19-31)
This is the place where Samuel was resting before God sent him back to speak with Saul (1Sam 28:3-25)
Nowhere in the Bible does death mean to go out of existence,,,,,,,,,,,,,,except maybe the second death in the lake of fire.
Without a spirit part to carry on from one body to the next there can be no resurrection.

I find at Genesis 2:7 God breathed (Not spirit) but breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam.
Yes, a person can be destroyed in Gehenna ( KJV hell fire )
Gehenna was translated into KJV English as hell /hell fire.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction.
So, it is No wonder Scripture teaches destruction for the wicked - Psalms 92:7 Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
( Luke chapter 16 is an illustration parable and Not a real happening )
Saul had turned to spirit mediums after he turned his back on God.
Saul was breaking God's Law going to a fortune telling medium. Saul was contacted by demons.
At death ( see Ecclesiastes 12:7) one's spirit (it) returns to God.
"IT" is a neuter and Not a person or part of a person.
Just as a foreclosed house (it) does Not move or go anywhere but goes back to the owner's hands.
So, one's spirit (it) goes back in that any future life prospect now lies in God's safe hands.
Yes, it's 'second death' (Revelation 21:8) for the wicked.
Even wicked sinner Satan is going to be destroyed by Jesus - Hebrews 2:14 B.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why did God make humans.If he knew from the start some would go to hell?I ask this because if God is all knowing.He knew some people were going to hell and some weren't.From the very beginning.

The point is "If He knew..." God gifted angelic and human creation the gift of free-will choices.
In other words, God chose Not to know if any would turn away from him -> James 1:13-15.
Also, when righteous Jesus died, the day Jesus died he went to hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Not to some religious-myth hell, but 'biblical hell' aka the grave for the sleeping dead.
In other words, dead Jesus was in the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.

 

[Bird123]

To me there is a difference between punish (cruel) and discipline for the sake of righteousness.
I like what Mohandas Gandhi stated:
' Suppose a person runs amuck and goes about with sowrd in hand, killing who comes in his way, but No one tries or dares to capture him alive. Anyone who captures this person will earn the gratitude of the community and be regarded as a benevolent man.' So, to me Ghandi saw the need for force under some circumstances.

From the very beginning, the God of the Bible loved humanity giving us a beautiful paradisical Earth.
However, everlasting life was Not without a condition to be met. This is why Adam & Eve are Not alive today.
It was Not because of hate for Adam & Eve but for the sake of righteousness.
Earth is only for humble meek people who would Not bring ruin to Earth ( moral or literal ruin )
This is why God will bring to ruing those people who bring ruin to Earth - Revelation 11:18 B

People and society will defend themselves. On the other hand do you really think it righteous to use pain or threats in an attempt to intimidate or alter the actions of others? What are you teaching your children? It certainly isn't goodness or a Higher Level.

Why do you think there is a condition for eternal life? Would a God Loving Unconditionally really place conditions or have favorites of one over another? Why would not every child make? What petty excuse could there be for not making sure, in time, that all children learn how to create a Heavenly state for themselves??

How little you really understand God. What is more important: A planet or your children? Children were not created for the earth. The earth was created for the children.

When one understands all sides, Intelligence will choose the best choices. One will no longer choose righteousness as an excuse to value so many of those petty things mankind holds so dear!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People and society will defend themselves. On the other hand do you really think it righteous to use pain or threats in an attempt to intimidate or alter the actions of others? What are you teaching your children? It certainly isn't goodness or a Higher Level.
Why do you think there is a condition for eternal life? Would a God Loving Unconditionally really place conditions or have favorites of one over another? Why would not every child make? What petty excuse could there be for not making sure, in time, that all children learn how to create a Heavenly state for themselves??
How little you really understand God. What is more important: A planet or your children? Children were not created for the earth. The earth was created for the children.
When one understands all sides, Intelligence will choose the best choices. One will no longer choose righteousness as an excuse to value so many of those petty things mankind holds so dear!!!
That's what I see. It's very clear!!

We are all free to act responsibly toward God.
God is free to act responsibly toward us.
God does Not use pain or threats, but lovingly warns us in advance.
If we by choice choose to be irresponsible (2 Peter 3:9) then God will have Jesus step in (come to the rescue) so that it is the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

 

[Bird123]

We are all free to act responsibly toward God.
God is free to act responsibly toward us.
God does Not use pain or threats, but lovingly warns us in advance.
If we by choice choose to be irresponsible (2 Peter 3:9) then God will have Jesus step in (come to the rescue) so that it is the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

This time-based causal universe is perfect for learning. That is the reason it exists. Those that choose to be irresponsible will understand their actions and choices when they return. This is the same with all our actions and choices. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices.

Jesus is not coming to the rescue. Jesus is learning in the same way we all are. God's system works for everyone regardless of who they are and what choices they choose to make. Further, God's system works regardless of any Beliefs one might have. One can tap dance with beliefs, however one can not escape the Math!! There is Great Genius behind everything. The dynamics are simply amazing!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This time-based causal universe is perfect for learning................. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices.
Jesus is not coming to the rescue......................!!

In Scripture, I find Satan to be intelligent so, would that mean Satan made the Best choice______- James 1:13-15.
If Jesus was Not coming to the rescue (deliverance/ salvation) then why is the Great Crowd of living people rescued - Revelation 7:14; Revelation 7:9
The one who endures to the end is: saved (delivered/rescued) according to Matthew 24:13.

 

[Bird123]

In Scripture, I find Satan to be intelligent so, would that mean Satan made the Best choice______- James 1:13-15.
If Jesus was Not coming to the rescue (deliverance/ salvation) then why is the Great Crowd of living people rescued - Revelation 7:14; Revelation 7:9
The one who endures to the end is: saved (delivered/rescued) according to Matthew 24:13.

If you get so caught up in Stories, True Reality can escape you.

Satan does not exist, never has and never will. I do not understand why religion and society value Blame so much. Blame is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear.

Is it really so hard to say I made a mistake instead of Satan made me do it? Is it really so hard for you to see that God counts on adversity as a part of God's system?

One will never advance to a Higher Level holding unto Blame and those petty things mankind holds so dear.

If Satan ever would exist, he too would learn to rise to a Higher Level. Through lessons, Intelligence increases not decreases. God is not as helpless as you imagine.

No one needs to be rescued. God has fixed everything ahead of time. No matter what happens, we are all Eternal.

OK, Let's step into your story world for a moment. Do you really find their character of Satan Intelligent? If you do, I can see you have a long way to go. Worry not!! There is no time limit on learning.

Oh, if you ever do really find Satan, send him my way. People talk yet I have yet to find anyone really able to find Satan at all. If Satan exists Satan can be found. I found God, however Satan must be hiding under his rock.

Once again, if you get so caught up in those stories, True Reality can escape you!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Brian2]

How little do you really Understand God. What is more important: your children or a need to punish, hurt, and condemn because you do not get your way?

God loves His children Unconditionally. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. There is no action or choice a person could make that would cause God to Hate or Condemn. You have allowed religion to corrupt your thinking.

People can choose hard lessons for themselves on the path to Discovering what those best choices really are. That is no excuse to hate and condemn. Hate will solve nothing. In time, each will Discover that the price for hate is always too high!!

In reality, the only one who is going to judge you will be yourself.

Finally, THINK! If God can create universes, what are a few wayward children making bad choices?

Everyone will learn, in time, how to create that heavenly state for themselves. One must purge all those petty things mankind holds so dear before that will be possible. Yes, there is a long way to go, however one will get there even making baby steps. There has never ever been a time limit on learning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I don't go on my own ideas or even my own hopes for all of mankind, I go by what God has told us in the Bible.