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Question about Homosexuality

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
I have been told that the Baha'i faith doesn't allow homosexuality or any non-traditional forms of families. Our UU church is considering leasing a portion of the church to a local Baha't group but many members believe we shouldn't because of the Baha'i views on homosexuality and family units. I would like more information before making a decision so anything you can offer will be appreciated.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings!

The Baha'i scriptures make clear that marriage is a heterosexual institution ordained by God.

They also state clearly that chastity is mandatory, and in particular that sex is permitted within marriage only.

Thus, anyone not married--regardless of orientation--should abstain from sex.

As to homosexuality, while we don't endorse it, neither do we consider it sinful per se, although sex outside marriage is so. Marriage aside, homosexuals have the same rights as anyone else and must not be discriminated against!

Again, our teachings about homosexuality are consistent with our overall teachings about chastity, which for Baha'is apply fully as much to heterosexuals as they do to homosexuals.

And indeed, there are homosexual Baha'is.

It's also important, please note, to remember that we do not presume to tell non-Baha'is how they should behave or to force our laws upon them!

Best regards, and further questions are most welcome!

Bruce
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
I assume that in the Baha'i faith, homosexuals cannot marry and are therefore expected to abstain from sex forever, correct?
 

arthra

Baha'i
Trey of Diamonds said:
I assume that in the Baha'i faith, homosexuals cannot marry and are therefore expected to abstain from sex forever, correct?

Outside of marriage, sexual relations are forbidden and as you know for Baha'is marriage can only be between a man and a woman...

I hope your church can consult with the Baha'is for more clarification and reach a resolution.

- Art:)
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Trey of Diamonds said:
I assume that in the Baha'i faith, homosexuals cannot marry and are therefore expected to abstain from sex forever, correct?

You appear to be missing the point that this rule isn't addressed to homosexuals.

ANYONE unmarried is expected to remain chaste.

So it's misleading to couch comments in terms only of homosexuals.

And some do indeed ultimately see their way clear to marrying someone of the opposite sex. . . .

Peace,

Bruce
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
BruceDLimber said:
You appear to be missing the point that this rule isn't addressed to homosexuals.

ANYONE unmarried is expected to remain chaste.

So it's misleading to couch comments in terms only of homosexuals.

And some do indeed ultimately see their way clear to marrying someone of the opposite sex. . . .

Peace,

Bruce

No, I see the point. To have sex you must get married but if homosexuals are not allowed to get married then they are forced to reconsider their sexual preference or remain abstinent for their entire life. I understand that the focus is on sex out of wedlock but the price for being homosexual is higher than it is for being heterosexual and not married. For one there is hope.

Many thanks for the responses, it has helped. We do indeed plan on speaking with our potential tenants and hope to have this resolved soon. The main question for our congregation is whether or not it is too hypocritical to allow Baha'i services in our sanctuary when we are currently working very hard on become a welcoming congregation that not only accepts homosexuals but welcomes them with open arms. Our congregation is split on the issue but hopefully your comments and speaking with the group in question will help bring about a solution.
 

arthra

Baha'i
By all means the best way to resolve this is consultation which is something we Baha'is value..

Baha'is are fairly conservative by today's standards when it comes to family values and morality.

- Art
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
I would simply add that there are indeed homosexual Baha'is, so at least for some, our teachings don't appear to be any sort of fatal obstacle to spiritual progress.

And while we're most eager to have fellowship and harmony with others, we're simply not about to change our scriptures and teaachings in order to try to accomplish this! Like it or not, IOV what God says stands regardless of human preferences.

Peace,

Bruce
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Baha`i institutions do not spend their time peeking in bedroom windows. However, if it becomes apparent that two same people are living together in the sense of sharing a bed and their bodies then that is not acceptable because it is sex outside of marriage.

Let me make clear it is against BAHA`I law for two people of the same sex to marry. Civil law is another matter entirely. If one insists upon having a same sex 'spouse and professes the Baha`i Faith, then the institutions will probably take away their voting rights, right to contribute to the fund, and right to serve on elective institutions. That does not mean they are not Baha`i's, it just means that the administrative portion of their Baha`i life within the community is suspended.

As to civil law, Baha`i's must abide by civil law where ever they reside. That does not mean however that we are required to perform marriages that violate Baha`i law.

Baha`i marriage is the issue. Couples who marry within the faith must meet several requirements. They must have the permission of all living natural parents, they must be of the age of maturity (whether that is the civil law of age of maturity or Baha`i law). They must have completed a Year of Patience and obtained a civil and Baha`i divorce if they were previously married. They must be male and female; however, no one is going to look inside their underwear to verify that. Transgenderism is not a homosexual condition and is subject to therapeutic resolution.

Regards,
Scott
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Trey of Diamonds said:
No, I see the point. To have sex you must get married but if homosexuals are not allowed to get married then they are forced to reconsider their sexual preference or remain abstinent for their entire life. I understand that the focus is on sex out of wedlock but the price for being homosexual is higher than it is for being heterosexual and not married. For one there is hope.

They could, however, be married in the church.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
They could, however, be married in the church.

Of course they could, in a church ceremony. A Baha`i wedding can be held anywhere, the only requirements are that the couple have permission from natural parents and have a Baha`i ceremony. Same sex couples cannot have a Baha`i ceremony, but Baha`i rules don't apply to Christian weddings, or Jewish weddings, or Buddhist weddings or civil ceremonies or anything else.

We have no clergy, so couples can have Baha`i ceremonies as long as there are two witnesses to hear the vows and certify that parental consent was given. The actual Baha`i ceremony is the recitation of a single verse by both parties: "We will all, verily, abide by the will of God." Any embellishment to the ceremony is up to the couple.

Regards,
Scott
 

arthra

Baha'i
Thanks angellous_evangellous for your post on the Baha'i Forum!

Baha'is can only marry in a Baha'i ceremony according to Baha'i law... So our families and life style are probably more conservative than many today.

The goal of marriage is actually a spiritual one in which we can aim for spiritual oneness with our consort through the worlds of God and raise up those who will make mention of God...

Abdul-Baha stated:

"From the pairing of even the smallest particles in the world of being are the grace and bounty of God made manifest; and the higher the degree, the more momentous is the union ... and above all other unions is that between human beings, .... Thus is the primal oneness made to appear."

Marriage is considered in the Bahá'í Faith to be one of the most important social institutions.

"And when He [God] desired to manifest grace and beneficence to men, and to set the world in order, He revealed observances and created laws: among them He established the law of marriage, made it as a fortress for well-being and salvation . . ."~ Baha'u'llah
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Many thanks to everyone who offered information and/or advice, you have been a big help. While all the details have not yet been worked out it does look like we will have the Baha’i conducting their workshops in our church. Hopefully both the Baha’i and us UUs will be able to learn, benefit and grow from the experience.

I also posted the question in the Unitarian/Universalism forum and got some great feedback.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48820

This is why I love this group of forums, real issues discussed by real people in a polite and positive manner. Thanks again to everyone involved.

Trey
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Trey, hi again!

An addendum:

Baha'is are NOT "against" homosexuals!

While chastity is one of our laws and only heterosexual marriage is allowed in the Baha'i Faith, we hold no hostility toward homosexuals, nor do we see homosexuality as sinful (as contrasted with homosexual sex acts). And as I mentioned, there are homosexual Baha'is.

Additionally, you mentioned rituals with regard to the Baha'i Faith. For the record, there are only five Baha'i rituals (and we are specifically discouraged from creating more). These are:

  • daily obligatory prayer,
  • daily recitation of "Allah-u-Abha" ("God is Most Glorious") 95 times,
  • the annual Fast (which happens to end at sunset tonight, when our New Year occurs),
  • the Baha'i wedding vow, and
  • the Baha'i burial prayer.
Please note that the first three are individual obligations and as such are not addressed or enforced either by other indivualss or by Baha'i institutions.

Regards, :)

Bruce
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Hi Bruce, when I mentioned rituals it was in complete ignorance of what terminology the Baha'i might use. Thanks for the info, learning about the multitude of spiritual paths is my goal.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Hi again, Trey! :)

(For the record, the plural of Baha'i is simply "Baha'is." And if it'll help, "baha" means "glory." "Baha'i" is the adjective form, "of Glory." And our Founder's title, "Baha'u'llah" means "Glory of God" or "Glory of the Lord.")

See? Now you can impress your friends at parties! :)

Anyway, in hopes that you'll find it of interest, I'll providing you an overview of the Baha'i Faith (it's split into parts, and I'll place them in successive messages below).

Enjoy! :)

Bruce

- - - - -
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
[For Trey, as promised.]


*** THE BAHA'I FAITH ***


The Baha'i Faith (pronounced "ba HIGH") is the newest of the major world religions. It began in 1844 in Persia, and has now spread to literally every country. In terms of localities where members live, it is also the second most widespread religion on earth (Christianity is first) [source: Encyclopedia Britannica], and is also the fastest-growing religion among those already established in over 100 countries [source: World Christian Encyclopedia].


HISTORY

In 1844, a young man in Persia took the title Bab ("the Gate"), and announced that He was a divine Messenger and that another Messenger would soon appear. The Bab quickly amassed a large following, but opposition by Muslim clergy and government officials soon turned to oppression, and thousands (including the Bab Himself) were put to death.

One of the Bab's followers, a young nobleman, was imprisoned as part of this attempt to stamp out the infant faith. The Bab had given Him the title Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God"). While in prison, He received a vision that He was the new Messenger foretold by the Bab. Baha'u'llah and His family were exiled several times, and finally sent to the prison city of Akka, Palestine (now Israel), where He spent the rest of His life. During His ministry, He wrote over 100 volumes, and the number of His followers (now called Baha'is--"of Glory") increased.

Baha'u'llah died in 1892. In His will, He appointed his eldest son, 'Abdu'l-Baha, as His successor and the official interpreter of His writings. Eventually released from prison in 1907, 'Abdu'l-Baha traveled the world teaching the Faith (he visited the United States in 1912). 'Abdu'l-Baha wrote a number of books explaining and amplifying the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

The works of the Bab, Baha'u'llah, and 'Abdu'l-Baha, which comprise about 200 different volumes, comprise the Baha'i scriptures. Baha'is also recognize other books such as the Bible and the Qur'an, as scriptural.

Upon 'Abdu'l-Baha's death, his will appointed his grandson, Shoghi Effendi, to head the faith. During his lifetime, Shoghi Effendi worked to teach the Faith and to establish the Baha'i administrative order set out in the Baha'i scriptures. Since Shoghi Effendi's death in 1957, the Baha'i Faith has been run by the elected bodies of this administrative order.


TEACHINGS

The Baha'i Faith teaches that, for the individual, this life is a time of acquiring spiritual qualities in preparation for the afterlife. Existence-- both here and otherwise--is a gradual process of spiritual growth, of drawing closer to God. (We never attain the station of God or "become Gods.") What makes this life unique is that here, we have free will and control our own growth or lack thereof. After death, our progress is at God's will. While we have no details, our scriptures tell us that the next life will be inexpressibly wondrous!

Heaven and Hell are not places, but spiritual conditions: Heaven is nearness to God; Hell, separation. As such, they exist here and now as well as after death: which one any of us is in at any given moment is a function of where his/her head is at that moment. Just as a child in its mother's womb is acquiring the physical tools it will need here (and will be handicapped if it fails to do so), so we are acquiring the spiritual tools needed after death (and will be impaired then if we don't). The more spiritual, the "nearer" to God. Thus, although spiritual growth will indeed continue then, the awareness of one's spiritual station compared to what one might have been (i.e., the relative "nearness to" or "separation from" God) will seem a Heaven or Hell after death.

The most important spiritual teachings of the Baha'i Faith are what we call the “Three Onenesses."

1. The first is the oneness of God. There is only one God, known by different names in different languages and cultures. God is unknowable by human means; the only knowledge of God possible to humankind is that brought by His divine Messengers.

2. The second is the oneness of humankind: there is only one race, the human race, and we are members of one family.

3. The third is the oneness of religion. All the major religions of the world are divine in origin, sent by God as stages in a single evolving divine plan, the Faith of God.

Baha'is believe in what is called "progressive revelation." We believe that God made a Covenant with Abraham that humanity would never be left without Divine Guidance. In fulfillment of this, God periodically sends a Divine Messenger to renew religion (getting it "back on the rails" by eliminating man-made additions and alterations) and to bring humanity new teachings in accord with its abilities and needs at that time. (Such Messengers usually appear every 500-1,000 years.) A few have been: Moses, Jesus, Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha, Muhammad, and Baha’u’llah (our Founder); there will be more in the future.

A Messenger has a dual station; He is both a man (who was born, died, etc.) and also a Manifestation of the eternal spirit of God. He may be likened to a mirror reflecting the sun. It is correct to point to the mirror and say, "That is the sun." It is also correct to say "That's not the sun, only a mirror." Thus Jesus said, "Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but God" (Jesus the man speaking), but also said "Before Abraham was, I am" and "No one comes to the Father but by Me" (the eternal spirit speaking, here called "Christ"). This latter "but by Me" quote refers to the fact that only through these Messengers can humankind know God, and it is the Holy Spirit investing all these Messengers that makes Them all one and all equal parts of this Only Way!

BTW, we see the Biblical "end of the world" prophecies as in fact a mistranslation. The word in the original Greek is "eras," which means "world" or 'age." IOV the translators used the wrong word, and these prophecies in fact refer to the end of the Age!

Baha'is see both humanity and religion as evolving over time. This process of the repeated appearance of many Messengers over time is how the Faith of God advances.
[End part one of four]
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
[Part two of four]
Spiritual teachings are eternal and unchanging (there is a God, don't murder, the Golden Rule, we are here for a reason, etc.). All the religions teach the same spiritual truths, though expressed differently or in greater degree as humankind's capacity increases. (Recall, for example, Jesus' amplifying "thou shalt not kill" into "unjustified anger is equivalent to murder.")

Social teachings are temporary. Each Messenger brings new social laws suited to humankind's situation and needs at the time, rescinding the old laws. Social laws deal with such things as marriage and divorce, diet, obligatory prayers, fasting, etc.. (Jesus abrogated the Jewish law of the Sabbath, for example.) Some of the Baha'i social teachings follow.

We see the Baha'i Faith as the fulfillment of the prophecies of earlier religions. Among others, this includes the promise of Jesus that He had more to tell us, and that He would send the Spirit of Truth to us. Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah fulfills this promised Return of the Christ Spirit with the new name which the Bible prophesied. And further, we are certain that this religious process will, over the centuries, bring about the promised Kingdom of God on earth.

As humankind evolves, our capacities increase. Baha'u'llah tells us that humankind is now entering young adulthood. Because each person now has the ability to investigate the Truth him- or herself, each now has the obligation to examine the various religions, determine where the truth lies, and follow it (we call this "Individual Investigation of Truth"). No one has the right to tell another what to believe. Therefore, the Baha'i Faith has no clergy or hierarchy: everyone is "just a Baha'i."

Further, while parents have the obligation to instruct children (in all the great religions), they may not force them to become Baha'i: that decision is up to the child, and no stigma is attached to being Baha'i or not being Baha'i. (We don't say that we're right and everyone else is wrong.) Membership in the Faith is not inherited; upon reaching the age of maturity (15), one is only considered a Baha'i if one has requested such. Thus a 15-year-old may choose to become a Baha'i, to join some other religion, or to join nothing at all! And the parents must support this decision.

And it is in this spirit that we tell you and others about the Baha'i Faith: we hope you'll investigate it, learn about it from many sources, and come to your own informed conclusion about it. We have no desire or interest in having unthinking or uninformed followers!

The Baha'i Faith was the first to proclaim the equality of men and women in its original Revelation. In fact, one of the first Babis (followers of the Bab) was publicly executed for daring to remove her veil and proclaim this principle.

Now in the interest of full disclosure and because I don't want to be accused of misleading you, I will tell you up front that there is one-and only one-apparent anomaly in the Baha'i Faith. While we are indeed working for the equality of women, the Baha'i scriptures require that our world-level elected body (about which more below) be composed of nine men. We do not understand the reason for this (though they say we will someday), but as we do not have the right to alter our scriptures, we obey this.

In every other way, we do everything we can to promote women's advancement and equality! Not only do we have development projects the world around to advance women, but women hold many prominent and important positions throughout the Faith (with the sole exception of this one nine-member body); in addition, we are formal members of UNIFEM, the UN agency for women's equality-and indeed, recently chaired its meetings! In addition, the Baha'i scriptures give women-ALL women world wide-an important special privilege: every woman has precedence over men for receipt of education!

Another teaching of the Faith is universal compulsory education. This both allows learning a profession and enables one to read the various holy scriptures--needed for the investigation of truth described above. (And as I said earlier, if resources don't permit educating everyone at once, all girls and women have absolute priority over men for receipt of education.)

The Faith teaches the essential harmony of science and religion, and states that religion must be in accord with science and reason. The purpose of science is to tell HOW; that of religion to tell WHO and WHY. Ignoring either one, or using either in the other's place quickly leads to problems. Science without religion is gross materialism; religion without science is superstition and witch-burning.

A universal auxiliary language--either new or already existing--is necessary so that all peoples can communicate. This would be in addition to one's native tongue and culture.

While absolute equality is neither necessary nor desirable, extremes of wealth and poverty must be abolished.

Abolition of all forms of prejudice is also necessary, including--among others--racism, religious and class distinctions, and nationalism.

Work, done in the spirit of service to humanity, is raised to the status of worship of God.

The nations of the world must unite in a democratically-elected world government.

The Baha'i Faith teaches that truth is relative, and that the only absolute is God. Evil, while it exists, is a negative entity: the absence of good. In the same way, light exists and dark is its absence, not a separate existence: this is proven by the fact that you can bring light into a room, but not bring in dark.) Also, a thing may be good in one circumstance, but bad in another. God has no equal or rival! "Satan" merely refers to our lower, animal nature when we give it control instead of our higher, spiritual nature.

All creation is essentially good. Salvation consists of knowing and following God's purpose for mankind; it is to this end that God has sent and will continue to send Messengers. And our purpose here is twofold:

* As individuals, we are to acquire the spiritual virtues we need in both this life and the Next.

* In aggregate, we are to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.

And the purpose of religion is to show us HOW to go about this!
[End part two of four]
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
[Part three of four]
Here are just a few of the Baha'i ordinances and practices:
· As I said above, our primary goal is to work for unity, peace, love, harmony, and concord. In furtherance of this, and for our own spiritual well-being, backbiting and gossip are condemned in the strongest possible terms! (Indeed, the Baha'i scriptures describe backbiting as the one crime worse than murder.)
· Aggression and waging war are explicitly forbidden, with a single exception, specifically: if anyone attacks another nation, then it is the duty of every other nation in the world to bind together to stop him!
· Baha'is don't use recreational drugs or alcohol. There are no dietary restrictions or forbidden foods. Baha'is are commanded to see doctors when ill.
· Baha'is, while promoting unity, avoid partisan politics and divisiveness.
· Baha'is endeavor to obey the laws of the countries where they live, with the sole exception that they will not deny their Faith if commanded to do so.
· Baha'is observe a fasting period once a year, and celebrate eleven holy days based upon Baha'i history.
· There are no restrictions on dress save moderation, and Baha'is live and work ordinary lives like others: they don't live in communal groups or separate societies, and aren't in any way noticeable by their appearance.
· Art, music, and other forms of creative expression are appreciated and often practiced by Baha'is. Baha'is work in many professions just like others.


ADMINISTRATION

The goal of the Baha'i Faith is to foster unity. This is the purpose of the Baha'i administrative system, which is delineated in the Baha'i scriptures.

The Baha'i calendar consists of nineteen months of nineteen days (plus several extra days in February/March to make an even solar year).

On the first day of each month, the Baha'is of each community gather for the Nineteen Day Feast. The feast has three parts: prayers, readings, and often music; community business; and refreshments and fellowship. The feast is the primary gathering within Baha'i communities, and is the main opportunity for the assembly and the community to consult together. Baha'is have no rituals nor ceremonies, but the feast is the nearest analogy to the service in Judeo-Christian faiths.

Baha'i administration is geographically based: a Baha'i is automatically a member of the Baha'i community in whose area he or she resides.

Baha'is in each community of nine or more annually elect their nine-member administrative body, the Local Spiritual Assembly. The assembly's function is the spiritual well-being and leadership of the community under its jurisdiction.

Baha'i elections are non-political in nature. There is no nomination nor campaigning, and discussion of individual personalities is forbidden. Each individual, after prayer and meditation, votes by secret ballot for the nine persons he or she believes are best qualified to serve; the nine receiving the most votes are automatically elected. Thus, each person tends to vote for persons he or she personally feels are best qualified, and those so considered by the greatest number of persons tend to be elected.

In case of a tie, the position automatically goes to the minority individual (the definition of "minority" varies according to locale). If no minority is represented among those tying, or if there is uncertainty about whether the minority rule applies, a run-off vote takes place among those tying.

Because individuals have neither the right to "run for office," nor--except for reasons such as ill health--to refuse to serve once elected, the divisiveness of conventional politics is eliminated. Further, elected individuals have no special status; they are "just Baha'is." It is only the assemblies themselves, meeting officially, that have authority, not the individuals on them.

Also, once elected, assemblies are not answerable to their communities for assembly decisions. This, with the secret ballot and lack of campaigning, eliminates the "I voted for you: now, here's what I want you to do for me" syndrome. (Of course, any assembly member abusing nonanswerability tends not to get reelected.)

Like local assemblies, National Spiritual Assemblies are elected annually. (Baha'is in area districts elect delegates who in turn vote for the National Assembly; any Baha'i in the national area is eligible for election.) National assemblies have jurisdiction over their assigned areas (which sometimes cover less or more than a single country, depending on geography and the number of Baha'is residing in a region).

Every five years, the National Assemblies elect the nine-man Universal House of Justice, the supreme administrative body of the Baha'i Faith.

Some countries (the US, Canada, the Philippines, and India are several) also have state or regional Baha'i councils; these are elected by the Local Spiritual Assembles of that area and serve as an intermediate administrative level between Local and National Assemblies.

As mentioned above, no elected member of an administrative body has any special status. A few especially gifted and learned Baha'is have been appointed as members of the Hands of the Cause of God or Continental Counselors. They advise the elected bodies, but have no administrative power. Thus, positions of renown and positions of power are separate.

The Baha'i Faith is funded entirely by voluntary, confidential contributions. Donating is a privilege reserved to members; non-members are not permitted to give to Baha'i funds. And no collection plate is ever passed.

There are currently over six million Baha'is worldwide, in every country on earth plus 49 significant islands and territories, with 182 National Spiritual Assemblies; there are about 13,000 Local Spiritual Assemblies. There are over 2,100 tribes and ethnic groups represented in the Faith, and Baha'i literature has been translated over 800 languages.

National Spiritual Assemblies currently manage over 900 development projects, the majority being grassroots efforts with little or no outside funding. These include activities in health and social services, communications, agriculture and forestry, plus community development projects such as medical centers, women's programs, credit unions, building renovation, cooperative fishing, and homes for refugees and for the aged. There are more than 500 Baha'i tutorial schools and training centers in Africa, Asia, and the Americas; Baha'i communities operate 29 formal primary and secondary schools.
[End part three of four]
 
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