Question about jesus.

[Oberon12]

Jesus did not grow up in poverty in a poor family.

 

[firedragon]

Wrong, it was the british army that introduces separation between toilet and food in the 18th century

It would be interesting to read the source of this information.

 

[firedragon]

Jesus did not grow up in poverty in a poor family.

Please provide the verse in the NT that contradicts the others that say Jesus and Joseph were both craftsmen. This is interesting.

 

[ChristineM]

In India? People used their left hand for toilet functions and their right for eating. It was separation of a kind.

Doesn't work of you are armless

 

[Kenny]

You’re still homeless if you are a temporary guest in someone else’s house, but that’s beside the point. Christ’s attitude to material wealth was unequivocal, would you like me to quote half a dozen Gospel verses to that effect? Why do you think so many monastic orders take vows of poverty, if not to live as near as possible to the way Christ lived?

And you know what happened to the home that he received from his father as an inheritance was, how? And does someone who is poor need someone to hold a moneybag and has the capacity to always give to the poor?

I'm sure that, if your position is that he was against people having material things, that I can show you half a dozen verses that prove that he wasn't against people who had wealth as long as it was with compassion.

It was the love of money that he was against.

 

[Kenny]

Given the directives for churches to provide for widows and orphans, and that workmen are worthy of their hire, etc., etc., it's clear none of that is possible if Christians are supposed to live by dumpster diving, as many of the Jesus haters run around claiming, usually by the usual fallacies of quoting individual verses out of the context of the narratives they're in, as if the bible is just a big collection of unrelated verses or something. It was the highly successful practice of taking care of their own that first attracted Constantine enough to put them in charge of the Empire's charities and social programs, while the attempts to emulate the Christians' successful programs by the pagans under the orders of a couple of the other co-Emperors of the Tetrarchy failed miserably.

logical, simple and obvious. Thank you for the post.

 

[Windwalker]

It would depend on the material of his clothing. If his outfits were made from silk or wool, then he clearly would've gone to a dry cleaner.

Fine silk clothing for the poor? One would think giving them food would be more practical.

 

[Windwalker]

Given the directives for churches to provide for widows and orphans, and that workmen are worthy of their hire, etc., etc., it's clear none of that is possible if Christians are supposed to live by dumpster diving, as many of the Jesus haters run around claiming

Jesus haters? You call Catholics Jesus haters? That's a new one. Do you really believe that?

It was the highly successful practice of taking care of their own that first attracted Constantine enough to put them in charge of the Empire's charities and social programs,

Why Christianity was so attractive was because they were offering something where there was virtually nothing before. That's what caught Constantine's attention. They had a huge influence in the Empire because of their social programs. Like any good politician, he seized upon them as a power base.

How many politicians call themselves "born again Christians", and yet are the absolute antithesis of Jesus and his teachings, spreading hatred and fear of the other for the sake of power? While Constantine may have developed a genuine faith at some point, don't think for a second that he didn't understand the advantages of playing to a power base.

 

[PruePhillip]

If Jesus lived in poverty.How did he wash his clothes?Or take baths or showers?

You can say that Jesus was both poor and rich.
He was poor in that he left his material possessions behind him to
preach the Gospel. And rich in that He was 'ministered to' by many
of His followers. Hygene WAS important, particlarly hand washing.

 

[Oberon12]

And you know what happened to the home that he received from his father as an inheritance was, how? And does someone who is poor need someone to hold a moneybag and has the capacity to always give to the poor?

I'm sure that, if your position is that he was against people having material things, that I can show you half a dozen verses that prove that he wasn't against people who had wealth as long as it was with compassion.

It was the love of money that he was against.

Indeed, bolded for truth.

Another fiction is that Christians are supposed to be some sort of Super Pacifist cult, never mind we know the Apostles carried swords, Peter even whack an ear off a govt. official with one, so self-defense is obviously okay,as is protecting one's family and friends from thieves and invaders.

 

[Oberon12]

Jesus haters? You call Catholics Jesus haters? That's a new one. Do you really believe that?


Why Christianity was so attractive was because they were offering something where there was virtually nothing before. That's what caught Constantine's attention. They had a huge influence in the Empire because of their social programs. Like any good politician, he seized upon them as a power base.

How many politicians call themselves "born again Christians", and yet are the absolute antithesis of Jesus and his teachings, spreading hatred and fear of the other for the sake of power? While Constantine may have developed a genuine faith at some point, don't think for a second that he didn't understand the advantages of playing to a power base.

What Constantine did or politicians do have nothing to do with some fictional claim that Christians are supposed to be beggars or they're not 'real Christians n stuff'; the texts provide example after example of this being a false claim, and there is even a story about a couple who gave away more than they should have, just to try and score brownie points with their fellow church members, i.e. false pretensions and vanity.

All Constantine did was recognize a fait accompli re the rise of Christianity and the social revolution it wrought, clearly far superior to the selfish violent materialism of the pagan silliness; it was also a fully developed comprehensive theology and philosophy, the most sophisticated and humane one yet, with a legal framework to build on to boot, and still is.

 

[metis]

I agree that he wasn't materialistic. True that hypothetically he might have been a nazir as well as John the Baptist.

You can be poor and materialistic too.

But I will fight tooth and nail to defend you then you said hat he was a minimalist. - I won't let you take that back.

But it appears he was a minimalist even what your wrote in your own posts as that's what nazir's were.

Have a most Blessed Lord's Day, my friend.

 

[metis]

never mind we know the Apostles carried swords,

Do you know what the "swords" in eretz Israel looked like back then? They're more like an early Jewish version of a Swiss Army knife but considerable larger-- normally around 1-1&1/2 feet long.

Peter even whack an ear off a govt. official with one

And what did Jesus say to him?

Gotta go-- company.

 

[Kenny]

Indeed, bolded for truth.

Another fiction is that Christians are supposed to be some sort of Super Pacifist cult, never mind we know the Apostles carried swords, Peter even whack an ear off a govt. official with one, so self-defense is obviously okay,as is protecting one's family and friends from thieves and invaders.

Some people forget that when Jesus comes back there is an Armageddon - Sometime the only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. -- Though, sometimes, paying evil with good is the right way to go. Holy Spirit knows IMO

 

[sun rise]

It was the love of money that he was against.

Specifically emphasizing the trap that wealth can cause assuming you take that Biblical quote as accurate. Matt 19:24

 

[Kenny]

Specifically emphasizing the trap that wealth can cause assuming you take that Biblical quote as accurate. Matt 19:24

the whole of that reference is quite interesting, IMO. He goes on to say that with God it is possible and that there are rewards of material things if you so chose to do it. Maybe because then one knows that we don't love money but use it to help people?

A lot of viewpoints have been developed from it.

 

[DNB]

Fine silk clothing for the poor? One would think giving them food would be more practical.

...it was a stretch, I was desperately, apparently, trying to be humorous

 

[loverofhumanity]

We know there was clean water in rivers and such and likely things like soap tree bark, natural cleansers. People then, particularly a Prophet of God would have had the highest standards of cleanliness both inwardly and outwardly. Jesus was I believe, an example to humanity in every way.

 

[Oberon12]

Do you know what the "swords" in eretz Israel looked like back then? They're more like an early Jewish version of a Swiss Army knife but considerable larger-- normally around 1-1&1/2 feet long.

And what did Jesus say to him?

Gotta go-- company.

Why would the size make a difference? They were weapons, not useful for anything else. He also had to know Peter and couple of others were carrying them; they had at least three among their possessions.

 

[Oberon12]

Please provide the verse in the NT that contradicts the others that say Jesus and Joseph were both craftsmen. This is interesting.

Don't have time to write a book, but some examples are that the Magi brought gifts to the house his family lived in, Joseph was a builder, one of the respected trades 'pure' Jews could engage in, Nazareth was a prosperous town near a major Roman resort, hence he was likely employed a lot, a member of the middle class able to support a large family, and take them on his travels to the Passover Feast in Jerusalem, indicating a fair amount of wealth, since only the adult male was required to attend from any Jewish family, a considerable expense poor people wouldn't be able to afford. The 'born in a manger' thing is overblown; the population of the city and nearby towns ballooned to 6 times its normal population during these Passover festivals, and they trued an inn first, it was full. Poor people didn't have their own houses.

Other examples are he took expensive gifts from followers, like perfumes and food from his female followers like Mary, and had several wealthy friends, who put him and his Apostles up and fed them well. His poverty was self-imposed, when he turned 33 he was legally old enough to call himself a teacher and rabbi under Jewish traditions and no longer practiced his trade as a carpenter and became a wandering preacher.

outside of the caveats re having to stay in a manger during a very busy festival season, this article comes closest to pointing out he wasn't raised in poverty, most likely had a middle class upbringing.

Was Jesus Rich or Poor -- and Why Does It Matter? | Intersect

There are probably better sources out there, i just don't have time to go through many.