Question about Lord Krishna

[Rainbow Mage]

Okay, so I know I'm a Buddhist and all, but I have a lot of respect for Lord Krishna, seeing that he and the Buddha taught a lot the same. I had a question. I read the Gita, and when Krishna is speaking to Arjuna, is he saying that god is within every living thing? I think that's what he's trying to put forth, but I'd want to be absolutely sure. If that is the case that god is within every living thing, then was Krishna actually a god on earth, or a human being teaching Arjuna something deep and mystical about life?

 

[Onkara]

Hi Yosef
Krishna is God having taken human form. Krishna (God) resides in all of us as atman (soul). The atman are like pearls on a string (Brahman). They are all part of God (Brahman) from the absolute perspective of creation.

Krishna is able to take any form He wishes, this he explains in Bhagavad Gita chapter 4, verse 6. It is through His power to create the material world, nature, that He is able to appear in any form He desires.

It does not necessarily imply that we, you and me, are God, but it does imply that we are His divine creation. At this point many schools of Vedanta take different paths to explain the relationship of people to Krishna.

 

[Self]

Okay, so I know I'm a Buddhist and all, but I have a lot of respect for Lord Krishna, seeing that he and the Buddha taught a lot the same. I had a question. I read the Gita, and when Krishna is speaking to Arjuna, is he saying that god is within every living thing? I think that's what he's trying to put forth, but I'd want to be absolutely sure. If that is the case that god is within every living thing, then was Krishna actually a god on earth, or a human being teaching Arjuna something deep and mystical about life?

Krishna isnt human, Arjuna isnt human, you arnt human. Every being is the Self, not the Body.
Krishna was Born in the perfect Divine State of Consciousness which is called Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Krishna was always in that state and from birth knew that he was not the body. Therefore Krishna knew himself as God. Arjuna was Krishna's friend and when Arjuna became distressed on the battlefield of Kuruksetra, Krishna gave to Arjuna the Truth and how to become self-realized. In it are three paths which are Bhakti Marga (devotion), Jnana Marga (Knowledge), and Dhyana or Sankhya Marga (Meditation). Krishna says, when asked by Arjuna if the impersonalist or devotionalist is better, that Devotion to God is the best path. In Bhagavad Gita, Bhakti is the path that is said to be the highest. That is why 70% of Hindus practice Dvaita (Dualistic) Bhakti. God was just telling Arjuna how to realize the Self. This is one view.

To the Gaidiya Vaishnavas, Krishna was telling them that the supersoul resides within all souls as the controller. To Gaudiya Vaishnavas only Krishna is God and not any other being as Advaita states. So to the Advaitins, all of us are the Supreme Self and Krishna was teaching Arjuna how to realize that. To the Vaishnava's Krishna was telling Arjuna that he (Krishna) is God and that he is Svayam Bhagavan, or the Supreme Personality of the Absolute Truth.

 

[Andal]

Namaskar Yosef,

You will find a lot of different responses to your question depending on the Hindu who answers.

As for myself, Krishna is not human, he is God. I agree with the other posters tha we aren't human either in that our humanness is temporary and is not our true nature. Our true nature is that of atman or spirit. The BG is saying that we are a part of God but we are not God. We are a part of his energy and we are no different from him except that we are significantly smaller in comparison to him. Krishna is also saying that this identification with the material world separates us from him. It separates us because we perceive that separation so he goes through the various yogas and spiritual practices one can do to remember our connection with God thus severing our identification with the material world.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well yes I agree that we are not truly human, but we are individuals. I guess what I'm asking is, did Krishna think of himself as an individual, or did he always think in a universal way?

 

[Self]

Well yes I agree that we are not truly human, but we are individuals. I guess what I'm asking is, did Krishna think of himself as an individual, or did he always think in a universal way?

I will depend on the person who gives the answer. From my standpoint, we arnt individuals. My Consciousness is the same as Krishna's and Krishna knows that. But from the Vaishnava viewpoint we are all individuals. The Bhagavad Gita is interesting because so many interpretations can come from that immensly deep scripture.

 

[Satsangi]

Well yes I agree that we are not truly human, but we are individuals. I guess what I'm asking is, did Krishna think of himself as an individual, or did he always think in a universal way?

In the BG, Lord Krishna clearly says that He is the God who is beyond the Kshara and the Akshara- Purushottam Narayan Himself.

Pardon me Yosef, but it is u and me who are thinking and doubting, Lord Krishna just said the fact as it is- He IS the God and that He is present in all the Souls and non souls.

Regards,

 

[Metempsychosis]

Okay, so I know I'm a Buddhist and all, but I have a lot of respect for Lord Krishna, seeing that he and the Buddha taught a lot the same.

Difficult questions ....Much of the answer to your questions depends upon the sect you are looking at.Vaishnavites take Krishna as literal god descended on earth.Krishnaism(like Iskcon) sees Krishna to be the source of Vishnu and no other god is as "worship" worthy as Krishna.

Shaivites don't place much emphasis on Krishna,tough they may pray to Krishna.Smarta advaitins take him to manifestation of nirguna brahman..perfect manifestation of formless all pervading god.In fact,Vishnu is taken to be one of 5 gods of advaita tradition. I would like answer from my perspective (which is more or less advaita)

I had a question. I read the Gita, and when Krishna is speaking to Arjuna, is he saying that god is within every living thing? I think that's what he's trying to put forth, but I'd want to be absolutely sure.

Yes..It is infact within every atom ...everything is god but still God is transcendent to the creation.We consider Vishnu to be immanent aspect of Brahman

If that is the case that god is within every living thing, then was Krishna actually a god on earth, or a human being teaching Arjuna something deep and mystical about life?

Krishna was an avatar..i.e enlightened from birth with all the mystic powers under the control of that avatar.For us,with with a mind (causing the illusion of finiteness and seperateness) ,Krishna is "God"..In a sense that he is a manifestation ---perfect reflection of all pervading Brahman .But for Krishna,he does not see any difference between himself and us (he is perfectly united ,but we are not aware of that union).

Under empirical level of advaita,you can consider Krishna to be Huge wave and Jiva is a small wave of consciousness--But the absolute level advaitic truth is Krishna(who is same as Brahman) alone exists as infinte homogenous consciousness.It is suggested in BG:

Although the Supersoul appears to be divided, He is never divided. He is situated as one. Although He is the maintainer of every living entity, it is to be understood that He devours and develops all.---Chapter 13, Verse 17.

IMHO,you need to be familiar with Upanishads to fully understand this view.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well Buddhism teaches something similar about the Buddha, Mahayana does anyway. That the great cosmic Buddha is present in all living things, but the Buddha the person was still an individual person, as well as believing all life was united, so I guess maybe the Buddha didn't have the deepest understanding on the subject.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Well Buddhism teaches something similar about the Buddha, Mahayana does anyway. That the great cosmic Buddha is present in all living things, but the Buddha the person was still an individual person, as well as believing all life was united, so I guess maybe the Buddha didn't have the deepest understanding on the subject.

A person is said to be established in self-realization and is called a yogi [or mystic] when he is fully satisfied by virtue of acquired knowledge and realization. Such a person is situated in transcendence and is self-controlled. He sees everything--whether it be pebbles, stones or gold--as the same.
---Chapter 6, Verse 8.


Those whose minds are established in sameness and equanimity have already conquered the conditions of birth and death. They are flawless like Brahman, and thus they are already in Brahman.---Chapter 5, Verse 19.

Compare with this.

He who experiences the unity of life sees his own Self in all beings, and all beings in his own Self, and looks on everything with an impartial eye.--Buddha

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes anti-religion, you're correct that the Buddha did say that. I guess it's just that I'm not whole-heartedly given over to the dharma as a layperson, or that I lack the level of enlightenment the Buddha had. Is it really possible for all humans to reach such a level of enlightenment? Don't we all have different kinds of minds? The Buddha had a very unusual mind and personality, even from an early age.

 

[Self]

It is possible. All that's needed is that you be as you are. dont be as you think you are. Thoughts are the distraction from seeing your true nature. Simply give up thoughts and your at the level of Krishna, Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, and the rest of the self-realized beings. there is a place where between the thoughts where the Self shows itself, abide there.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Yes anti-religion, you're correct that the Buddha did say that. I guess it's just that I'm not whole-heartedly given over to the dharma as a layperson, or that I lack the level of enlightenment the Buddha had. Is it really possible for all humans to reach such a level of enlightenment?

Yes ...we are already in that stage..But different people have different levels of awareness regarding that.This what advaita says anyway.The aim of meditative practices is to be constantly aware of this reality.

Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge.When, however, one is enlightened with the knowledge by which nescience is destroyed, then his knowledge reveals everything, as the sun lights up everything in the daytime.

Chapter 5, Verse 16.,17

As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust, or as the embryo is covered by the womb, similarly, the living entity is covered by different degrees of this lust.
--Chapter 3, Verse 38.

Don't we all have different kinds of minds? The Buddha had a very unusual mind and personality, even from an early age.

Different yogas are for different types of personalities ,the goal of all them is same and is reachable by all

Only the ignorant speak of karma-yoga and devotional service as being different from the analytical study of the material world [sankhya]. Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.----Chapter 5, Verse 4.

 

[dharma_seeker]

LORD KRISHNA, from my personal understand was an AVATAR. The personal manifestion of the GOD descending on EARTH to stablize the DHARMA and KILL THE ADHARMIS.

 

[Madhuri]

Hi Yosef,
whether Krishna was a realised human being or an avatar of God is not known and everyone has different beliefs. I personally see Krishna as an avatar. I consider the Gita to be the absolute truth.
Yes, Krishna is telling us that He resides in the heart of every living being. There is distinction between the individual and God, but not separation.

 

[Satsangi]

Krishna was an avatar..i.e enlightened from birth with all the mystic powers under the control of that avatar.For us,with with a mind (causing the illusion of finiteness and seperateness) ,Krishna is "God"..In a sense that he is a manifestation ---perfect reflection of all pervading Brahman .But for Krishna,he does not see any difference between himself and us (he is perfectly united ,but we are not aware of that union).

Under empirical level of advaita,you can consider Krishna to be Huge wave and Jiva is a small wave of consciousness--But the absolute level advaitic truth is Krishna(who is same as Brahman) alone exists as infinte homogenous consciousness.

Followers of Lord Krishna would not put an Avatar as "enlightened from birth." There is no enlightenment for Him; He is the enlightenment. There was no bondage for Him to be "enlightened." He was the same before His Avatar, while in Mata Devaki's womb and same after the Avatar. There is no "birth" for Him, it is called Pragatya.

Regards,

 

[Metempsychosis]

Followers of Lord Krishna would not put an Avatar as "enlightened from birth." There is no enlightenment for Him; He is the enlightenment. There was no bondage for Him to be "enlightened." He was the same before His Avatar, while in Mata Devaki's womb and same after the Avatar. There is no "birth" for Him, it is called Pragatya.

Regards,

How do we verify avatar claims made by some men today?

 

[Satsangi]

How do we verify avatar claims made by some men today?

Ask them to lift Govardhana........ lol. OR ask them to control their passions and their partner's passions while performing the Raas leela..... lol. OR ask them to create a whole new Gokul when Brahmaji took everything to Satyaloka.... lol.

Now that some laugh is over, seriously, u have a very valid question- let me reframe- how can u confirm with your "Mayik Indriyas" that a human form is indeed an Avatar of Brahman itself in a body? The answer is in the Scriptures. The Avatar of God cannot be determined by "miracles" alone... even Ravana had some magical powers. But, "miracles" done for the Dharma are by God. The prime thing needed to recognize an Avatar is the grace of the Avatar Himself by which your "Mayik Indriyas" can recognize the Absolute Brahman in a human body. Only few people out of the whole population have recognized God in human form while they were physically present. Only through the Saints, later on, people recognized them as Avatars.

Besides above, there are some pointers in the Shashtras- Srimad Bhagvatam- about the qualities that an Avatar manifests when in the form of a King (Lord Rama, Lord Krishna) or the form of a Rishi (Lord Dattatreya). Krishna Avatar had sixteen such qualities (if I remember correctly.) Even in the Avatar's human like activities, there is an "extra taste" of divinity. One of the unique qualities of the God is to attract any Jiva's (human or not) chitta and prana and put them instantly in Samadhi into His form.

One more thing to add, the "Para Gati" mentioned in the BG denotes attainment of Pragat God in human form- this is the ultimate liberation as per many Bhakti guys.

Regards,

 

[Metempsychosis]

Now that some laugh is over, seriously, u have a very valid question- let me reframe- how can u confirm with your "Mayik Indriyas" that a human form is indeed an Avatar of Brahman itself in a body? The answer is in the Scriptures. The Avatar of God cannot be determined by "miracles" alone... even Ravana had some magical powers. But, "miracles" done for the Dharma are by God. The prime thing needed to recognize and Avatar is the grace of the Avatar Himself by which your "Mayik Indriyas" can recognize the Absolute Brahman in a human body. Only few people out of the whole population have recognized God in human form while they were physically present. Only through the Saints, later on, people recognized them as Avatars.

Besides above, there are some pointers in the Shashtras- Srimad Bhagvatam- about the qualities that an Avatar manifests when in the form of a King (Lord Rama, Lord Krishna) or the form of a Rishi (Lord Dattatreya). Krishna Avatar had sixteen such qualities (if I remember correctly.) Even in the Avatar's human like activities, there is an "extra taste" of divinity. One of the unique qualities of the God is to attract any Jiva's (human or not) chitta and prana and put them in Samadhi into His form.

Regards,

Thank you.

 

[Madhuri]

How do we verify avatar claims made by some men today?

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