cataway
Well-Known Member
would of thought you more clever than that
-
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Question about paul and stephen.And the afterlife.For the Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
" 2 Corinthians 5:10, Acts 7:54-59 "
The above verses " 2 Corinthians 5:10, Acts 7:54-59" have not been colored in red in the following Red Letter Bibles:
Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible
and that means neither (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, spoke them nor authored them nor wrote them and , therefore, these are not a reliable source for guidance in ethical, moral and or spiritual matters for one who loves Yeshua, it transpires. Right?
I don't get one exactly, kindly elaborate, please. Right?
Regards
" 2 Corinthians 5:10, Acts 7:54-59 "
The above verses " 2 Corinthians 5:10, Acts 7:54-59" have not been colored in red in the following Red Letter Bibles:
Holy Bible King James Version (Red Letter Edition)
The Roman Catholic Holy Bible with the words of Jesus in red.
World Messianic Bible
and that means neither (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, spoke them nor authored them nor wrote them and , therefore, these are not a reliable source for guidance in ethical, moral and or spiritual matters for one who loves Yeshua, it transpires. Right?
I don't get one exactly, kindly elaborate, please. Right?
Regards
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Can you quote the part of the bible.Were it says my brothers?
Matthew 12... "Pointing to his Disciples Jesus said.. "Here are my Brothers"!
The Great Commission.. "Go make DISCIPLES of all nations "Baptizing"!
Frank Goad clearly "Baptism makes Disciples!"
Clearly.. "Jesus is the Brother of the Baptized"! Logic says.. If Jesus is your brother then God would be your father!
Logic also says.. IF Jesus is your Brother then "Mary would be your mother"!
Acts 2... 3000 were ADDED to the body of Jesus by Baptism! If being ADDED in the Body of Jesus God' ONLY son then God would be your father!
All of Jesus' disciples honor Mary as blessed! For 2000 years Catholics have honored Mary as Blessed! All IN the Generations of Mary... ALL......
Frank Goad all in the generational family of Mary call Jesus brother and Mary MOTHER!!
Luke 1:46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
This scripture Prophesy tells you; Those in Mary' family honor Mary as Blessed, All in the Generations on Mary are her Children! ONLY....
Frank Goad only the Christian can say YES we have always honored Mary as Blessed! For 2000 years ONLY the Catholic fulfills this Prophesy!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
cataway Christians believe; Jesus is God! Christians have ALWAYS believed "Jesus is God"!
Arius WAS a Christian until he taught Jesus was NOT God!... Christians then rejected Arius as a False Teacher a Heretic!
Christians believe in Hell Eternal! Non Christians reject Christian belief!
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"Arius"
Friend @Dogknox20!
Didn't Constantine force people for adoption of the Nicene Creed and he persecute Arius, because Arius opposed the Creed and he deplored how, in his view, Christian theology was being too freely mixed with Greek paganism against the teachings of Yeshua and unauthorized by Yeshua, please? Right?
Does one condemn Emperor Constantine for such measures against Arius, please? Right?
Regards
Last edited:
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
..
paarsurrey good to meet you...
You are wrong! Emperor Constantine called a meeting; over 100 Catholic Bishops attended! Emperor Constantine made the Christian religion the religion of the state!
Christians have always believed Jesus is God, Arius rejected this truth!
Thomas (The Apostle) was a Christian!! Jesus tells Thomas "Christians are Blessed" because Christians will believe as he (Thomas) believed!
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
paarsurrey ...... Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed... as you believe Thomas.
Christians believe as Thomas Believed.. Christians are Blessed!
Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Christian beliefs! Arius WAS AMONG Christians..
This scripture PROPHESY holds true with Arius! (Below)
Scripture PROPHESY proves Arius is a Heretic!
LOOK...
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
paarsurrey This PROPHESY cannot work in the reverse... Christians were NOT AMONG Arius! Arius WAS AMONG Christians!!.. Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
................................................just as there will be false teachers among you. . Arius WAS AMOING CHRISTIANS!
Clearly this PROPHESY proves Arius was a Heretic.. It PROVES also all who believe as Arius are NOT in the way of truth!
................................................... and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.....
paarsurrey It PROVES Christians are the Way Of Truth!
Christians believed "Jesus is God"!
.
.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
paarsurrey Think... "Life is eternal!"
Jesus destroyed Death on the cross.. Death is no more! Jesus restored Life .. From the cross! ... CAN'T DIE any more!
Satan hates the cross because it was by the cross that he was defeated!
paarsurrey The Antichrist is Anti-Christian because Christians are Christ Followers! Christians revere the cross because it was by the cross Christians were saved, by the cross that Christians were redeemed! Christians use the Cross as a symbol of love!
Satan is Anti-Christian he is the "Anti-Christ" he hates the truth; he hates the cross! The Anti-Christ would never ever allow any of his children to use the cross! Satan the Anti-Christian would never allow the cross to be put on any of his churches! There is NO anti-Mohamad No anti-Buda No- anti-Hare Krishna No Anti JWs etc because these are all doing his work denying the truth of Christianity!
cataway
Well-Known Member
they believe that because thats what they ''want'' to believe . its not in scripture . who did Jesus say should be worshiped ?
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
cataway.. Goood Question....... who did Jesus say should be worshiped ?
Scriptures tell us.. Jesus told Satan "ONLY God is to be worshiped!" Jesus knows beyond all doubt... GOD and him alone is to be worshiped!
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” IF.....
cataway if Jesus was to be worshiped then he would be worse then Satan, he would have NO EXCUSE; he could not say "I did not know ONLY God is to be worshiped.. GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Look....
The WISE MEN Worship Jesus at his birth!
Matthew 2:11
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
cataway Jesus does NOT SAY... "Don't worship me.. Worship is ONLY For God"! Jesus KNOWS Beyond all doubt.. "GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Jesus does NOT correct them as he corrected Satan... Because Jesus is GOD! "GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
cataway Jesus does NOT SAY... "Don't worship me.. Worship is ONLY For God"! Jesus does NOT correct them.. He lets them worship him! "GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Christians worship Jesus because Christians believe "Jesus is God!"
Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
John 9:38
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
cataway They worship Jesus at his birth and they worship Jesus as he ascends into heaven! NEVER.....
cataway never do you read in the scriptures Jesus correcting anyone as he corrected Satan.. ONLY God is to worshiped.. Jesus IS GOD!
Thomas worships Jesus.. "My Lord and My GOD"! Thomas is a Christian!
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Christians are Blessed they worship Jesus! Non Christians are NOT Blessed!
cataway People that reject Jesus as God are NOT Blessed! blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” "My Lord and GOD"! Christians are BLESSED!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
paarsurrey Christians believe "Jesus is God"!
God is the Judge.. Clearly "God will judge all the earth at the end of time" (Old Testament!)
1 Chronicles 16:14
He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
Job 34:23
God has no need to examine people further, that they should come before him for judgment.
Psalm 9:7
The Lord reigns forever; he has established his throne for judgment.
Psalm 105:7
He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said to myself, “God will bring into judgment both the righteous and the wicked, for there will be a time for every activity, a time to judge every deed.”
Isaiah 66:16
For with fire and with his sword the Lord will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the Lord.
Jeremiah 25:31
The tumult will resound to the ends of the earth, for the Lord will bring charges against the nations; he will bring judgment on all mankind and put the wicked to the sword,’” declares the Lord.
Zephaniah 1:2
Judgment on the Whole Earth in the Day of the Lord
“I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the Lord.
Jesus is The JUDGE at the end of time! (New Testament)
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
.
cataway
Well-Known Member
you call him God .why would such a god need to reach out in prayer to his God? if he was almighty as you try to make him ,he would not .Jesus is subordinate to his God ,his father .
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
Christians believe Jesus God!
cataway God the Father is Spirit
God the WORD is Spirit!
God the Holy Spirit is Spirit!
The WORD Became Flesh and lived among us!
The WORD became Man!
Jesus "The WORD" is the "God/Man!"
The MAN Jesus prayed to his Father! Prayer is a form of Praise and or Petition!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
.
cataway you asked... if he was almighty as you try to make him ,he would not .Jesus is subordinate to his God ,his father ??
Your Answer is found in the scriptures...
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
Christians believe Jesus God!
Thomas the Apostle is a CHRISTIAN! Thomas tells you; Jesus is his God!
Jesus tells you "Christians are Blessed"!
......................................................................................................................................
cataway at the same time Jesus is telling you... "You are NOT Blessed"!
...................................................................................................................................
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
cataway You REJECT Christian belief! Arius WAS a Christian until he also rejected Christian belief! Arius was also NOT Blessed he was declared by CHRISTIANS: Heretic A False Teacher!
"Christians are Blessed".. Christians believe "Jesus IS God"! “My Lord and my God!”
cataway
Well-Known Member
false Christians promoting false ideas are only going to promote false doctrine. Jesus is not the almighty God he is the son of God. your bible says that . read it
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
.
cataway I think you just put your foot into your mouth!
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
To be ALWAYS WITH Jesus you have to be with him from the first... false Christians promoting false ideas Come after Jesus just as the False Christian "Arius"!
cataway Christians are "Christ Followers"! Thomas the APOSTLE is a Christian.. He tells you "Jesus is his God"!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Christians HAVE ALWAYS believed Jesus is God!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Christians REJECTED Arius for his false beliefs, Arius taught; Jesus is NOT God, Charles Taze Russell did the same! Arius and Charles Taze Russell came after Christ Followers, they came AFTER Christians: AFTER Thomas and the ONLY Church Jesus is ALWAYS WITH!!
cataway Jesus CANNOT be with "Your JW Church" simply because he did not start with your church! To be ALWAYS WITH he had to start with your church!
You CANNOT be Christian because you REJECT what Christians have ALWAYS believed! "Jesus is God"!
Arius came promoting false Christians ideas!!! Promoted false doctrine.
Charles Taze Russell came promoting false Christians ideas!!! Promoted false doctrine. YOUR....
cataway your words accuse Charles Taze Russell as promoting false ideas that are only going to promote false doctrine.
Christians have ALWAYS believed "Jesus is God" long before Charles Taze Russell!
This Scripture Prophesy CANNOT work in the reverse.. Arius was AMONG Christians until he was rejected as a Heretic!
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
Clearly the JW Church cannot be true! Arius and his teaching "Jesus is NOT God" is your belief!
cataway Jesus tells you "Christians are Blessed" because they believe the same as Thomas! "My Lord & GOD"!
Clearly... Logic Alone says.. You cannot be Blessed!
Clearly.. Logic Alone says: Arius & Charles Taze Russell are NOT Blessed! "Blessed are those that believe as Thomas"!
The JW is forced to reject Scriptures or change the words of God to say what God did not say!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
..
paarsurrey good to meet you...
You are wrong! Emperor Constantine called a meeting; over 100 Catholic Bishops attended! Emperor Constantine made the Christian religion the religion of the state!
Christians have always believed Jesus is God, Arius rejected this truth!
Thomas (The Apostle) was a Christian!! Jesus tells Thomas "Christians are Blessed" because Christians will believe as he (Thomas) believed!
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
paarsurrey ...... Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed... as you believe Thomas.
Christians believe as Thomas Believed.. Christians are Blessed!
Arius WAS a Christian until he rejected Christian beliefs! Arius WAS AMONG Christians..
This scripture PROPHESY holds true with Arius! (Below)
Scripture PROPHESY proves Arius is a Heretic!
LOOK...
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
paarsurrey This PROPHESY cannot work in the reverse... Christians were NOT AMONG Arius! Arius WAS AMONG Christians!!.. Christians rejected Arius as a False Teacher!
................................................just as there will be false teachers among you. . Arius WAS AMOING CHRISTIANS!
Clearly this PROPHESY proves Arius was a Heretic.. It PROVES also all who believe as Arius are NOT in the way of truth!
................................................... and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.....
paarsurrey It PROVES Christians are the Way Of Truth!
Christians believed "Jesus is God"!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
cataway.. Good Question....... who did Jesus say should be worshiped ?
Scriptures tell us.. Jesus told Satan "ONLY God is to be worshiped!" Jesus knows beyond all doubt... GOD and him alone is to be worshiped!
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” IF.....
cataway if Jesus was to be worshiped then he would be worse then Satan, he would have NO EXCUSE; he could not say "I did not know ONLY God is to be worshiped.. GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Look....
The WISE MEN Worship Jesus at his birth!
Matthew 2:11
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
cataway Jesus does NOT SAY... "Don't worship me.. Worship is ONLY For God"! Jesus KNOWS Beyond all doubt.. "GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Jesus does NOT correct them as he corrected Satan... Because Jesus is GOD! "GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
cataway Jesus does NOT SAY... "Don't worship me.. Worship is ONLY For God"! Jesus does NOT correct them.. He lets them worship him! "GOD ALONE is to be worshiped!"
Christians worship Jesus because Christians believe "Jesus is God!"
Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
John 9:38
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
cataway They worship Jesus at his birth and they worship Jesus as he ascends into heaven! NEVER.....
cataway never do you read in the scriptures Jesus correcting anyone as he corrected Satan.. ONLY God is to worshiped.. Jesus IS GOD!
Thomas worships Jesus.. "My Lord and My GOD"! Thomas is a Christian!
John 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Christians are Blessed they worship Jesus! Non Christians are NOT Blessed!
cataway People that reject Jesus as God are NOT Blessed! blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” "My Lord and GOD"! Christians are BLESSED!
cataway
Well-Known Member
had you been there to see the so-called worship you would have seen what is know as a bow other wise now as obeisance. its a gesture expressing deferential respect . i understand your ignorance
Heavenly images are given to us in human symbols: thrones, guardians of the throne, tribune or council, assemblies, trumpets that are blown to announce, the wedding of a prince, etc. Do these kinds of objects and institutions exist in heavens such as we have in the palaces of human kingdoms (or histories of ancient kingdoms)?This got me thinking.Why did paul say Jesus does the judging from his judgment seat.If stephen saw God on the throne.And not Jesus?Does Jesus have a different judgment seat.That he just didn't see?
In ancient times, kings sat on their thrones on specific occasions: to show their deference as kings in kingdom activities, or to judge cases presented in front of them. The rest of the time kings moved around the different locations of the palace or were busy with other matters of the kingdom such as wars or treaties.
"Sitting on the throne" in heavens refers to an official act of government or moment of judging.
Christ's co-regents will also sit on figurative thrones in the heavens alongside him to judge and rule...but that is not all they will accomplish when they are in heaven (Dan. 7:21-27; Luke 22:28-30; Rev. 3:21) .
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
DO YOUR HOMEWORK....... LOOK AND SEE WHO IT IS THAT IS IGNORANT!
cataway 63 scripture translations NOT ONE of the 63 uses the word obeisance!!!
63 Professional scripture translators NOT ONE of these experts uses the word obeisance! ONLY.....
cataway only the NWT uses the word obeisance
*******
GOT QUESTIONS
The New World Translation (NWT) is defined by the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ parent organization (the Watchtower Society) as "a translation of the Holy Scriptures made directly from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into modern-day English by a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah." The NWT is the anonymous work of the “New World Bible Translation Committee.” Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the anonymity is in place so that the credit for the work will go to God. Of course, this has the added benefit of keeping the translators from any accountability for their errors and prevents real scholars from checking their academic credentials.
The New World Translation is unique in one thing – it is the first intentional, systematic effort at producing a complete version of the Bible that is edited and revised for the specific purpose of agreeing with a group’s doctrine. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Watchtower Society realized that their beliefs contradicted Scripture. So, rather than conforming their beliefs to Scripture, they altered Scripture to agree with their beliefs. The “New World Bible Translation Committee” went through the Bible and changed any Scripture that did not agree with Jehovah’s Witness theology. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that, as new editions of the New World Translation were published, additional changes were made to the biblical text. As biblical Christians continued to point out Scriptures that clearly argue for the deity of Christ (for example), the Watchtower Society would publish new editions of the New World Translation with those Scriptures changed. Here are some of the more prominent examples of intentional revisions:
The New World Translation renders the Greek term word staurós ("cross") as "torture stake" because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe that Jesus was crucified on a cross. The New World Translation does not translate the words sheol, hades, gehenna, and tartarus as "hell” because Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in hell. The NWT gives the translation "presence" instead of “coming” for the Greek word parousia because Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ has already returned in the early 1900s. In Colossians 1:16, the NWT inserts the word “other” despite its being completely absent from the original Greek text. It does this to give the view that “all other things” were created by Christ, instead of what the text says, “all things were created by Christ.” This is to go along with their belief that Christ is a created being, which they believe because they deny the Trinity.
*********
63 scripture translations out of the 63 only 3 used a different word then "Worship"! All who used a different word also used the same word in Matthew 14:33
DARBY
Then says Jesus to him, Get thee away, Satan, for it is written, Thou shalt do homage to [the] Lord thy God, and him alone shalt thou serve.
One translation says Homage!
Matthew 14:33 DARBY
But those in the ship came and did homage to him, saying, Truly thou art God's Son.
DRA
Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan: for it is written, The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve.
One translation says ADORE!
Matthew 14:33 DRA
And they that were in the boat came and adored him, saying: Indeed thou art the Son of God.
YLT
Then saith Jesus to him, `Go -- Adversary, for it hath been written, The Lord thy God thou shalt bow to, and Him only thou shalt serve.'
One translation says shalt bow to
Matthew 14:33 YLT
and those in the boat having come, did bow to him, saying, `Truly -- God's Son art thou.'
...............................................................................................
o·bei·sance
/ōˈbāsəns,əˈbāsəns,ōˈbēsəns,əˈbēsns/
noun
- deferential respect.
"they paid obeisance to the Prince"
Similar:
respect
respect for Douglas as an actor" data-hw="respect" data-lb="" data-tae="true" data-te="false" data-tl="en-US" data-tldf="" data-url="/search?q=define+respect&forcedict=respect&dictcorpus=en-US">
homage
worship
adoration
reverence
veneration
respectfulness
honor
submission
deference
- a gesture expressing deferential respect, such as a bow or curtsy.
plural noun: obeisances
"she made a deep obeisance"
- a gesture expressing deferential respect, such as a bow or curtsy.