Question about someone who are or become a muslim

[icehorse]

Which parts specifically?

And for @firedragon

I wonder whether either of you has read the book? The first Surah is very short so the second Surah probably starts on page two of whatever translation you're looking at.

Okay, here's a quick list of divisive verses in the 2nd Surah:

6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20

23,24 26,27 39, 59, I stopped at that point.

In these first 60 or so verses I've listed about 20 verses dedicated to criticizing non-believers in various ways.

Is this how a book of peace begins? By obsessing over non-believers?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Let them reveal them self as haters, then my goal with this tread had been successful

Amanaki. Wouldn't it be best to find the good and lessons in these negative (if you like) or critiques of the Islamic faith rather than branding non-spiritual people at fault of not understanding you, Islam, and spirituality as a whole?

Wouldn't the Quran and Islam help see people for who they are and what they have to teach you despite what they believe, don't believe, their personality, and their outlook in life (given we don't know about any person beyond our computer screen)?

 

[Vinayaka]

Amanaki. Wouldn't it be best to find the good and lessons in these negative (if you like) or critiques of the Islamic faith rather than branding non-spiritual people at fault of not understanding you, Islam, and spirituality as a whole?

Wouldn't the Quran and Islam help see people for who they are and what they have to teach you despite what they believe, don't believe, their personality, and their outlook in life (given we don't know about any person beyond our computer screen)?

The world has a huge challenge if religions teach you how to hate people simply for disagreeing. Disagreeing isn't hate, it's just disagreeing. And so the world turns.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Amanaki. Wouldn't it be best to find the good and lessons in these negative (if you like) or critiques of the Islamic faith rather than branding non-spiritual people at fault of not understanding you, Islam, and spirituality as a whole?

Wouldn't the Quran and Islam help see people for who they are and what they have to teach you despite what they believe, don't believe, their personality, and their outlook in life (given we don't know about any person beyond our computer screen)?

Thank you for asking this @Unveiled Artist
I might look like i critique those who critique me for converting to Islam, or they critique Islam it self. I have passed that point now. I let them show the real them in their own words about Islam, Qur'an or Muhammad (pbuh). Let them critique

Today i saw many new OP that try to make Islam look faulty or evil. I was thinking ok, let them speak for them self. I do not need to take part in those threads anymore.

I do want to say one thing, I am sorry for my past comments about atheists or non believers in general. I know i said a lot of negative about them. So i do understand their critique of me. I am also sorry for the harm my comments have cause those who read them.

As a Muslim i should not hate anyone, i do not wish harm upon anyone.
I do agree that my past views and opinions has been wrong from time to time.
So i do my best to stop critique others and focus more on my own faults so i can correct them.

If i ask others to stop making critique of me or my belief it is clearly my responsability to do the same toward others.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The world has a huge challenge if religions teach you how to hate people simply for disagreeing. Disagreeing isn't hate, it's just disagreeing. And so the world turns.

True. When I had converted to Catholicism, I fell into the dichotomy: whose a christian, whose catholic, who has the real christ, who has symbolism, and so forth. It was really influential especially when your experiences override any intellect that should be congruent with any faith one genuinely is called to learn and practice. It's a tug of war between enlightenment and fact. In my opinion, they should be aligned but sometimes the former (the contextual sense of the word) overrides the latter. Which makes it seem more blind faith. That was my experience. I no longer follow because of it.

 

[Vinayaka]

True. When I had converted to Catholicism, I fell into the dichotomy: whose a christian, whose catholic, who has the real christ, who has symbolism, and so forth. It was really influential especially when your experiences override any intellect that should be congruent with any faith one genuinely is called to learn and practice. It's a tug of war between enlightenment and fact. In my opinion, they should be aligned but sometimes the former (the contextual sense of the word) overrides the latter. Which makes it seem more blind faith. That was my experience. I no longer follow because of it.

I actually do believe that God created (emanated) many religions because we're so diverse. It's a bit of a challenge, though to accept folks who 'know' their faith is the right one for all of humanity, not just themselves. I have no real argument for them, as they do have the right to believe that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I might look like i critique those who critique me for converting to Islam, or they critique Islam it self. I have passed that point now. I let them show the real them in their own words about Islam, Qur'an or Muhammad (pbuh). Let them critique

Your comments and the one I quoted says deliberately that you want to see if non-believers who critique Islam would get a "wake up call" (from your other thread) into basically what they are doing and (in my words) see the truth.

That's not critique, that's judging. What I see in most of these posts is people warning you about the teachings of Islam (from what they know of it) and it sounds like they want to help you question your beliefs as a convert. "I let the show...." what do you mean by "let them?" When you have peace, you're not coercing them or anything similar to support an assumption you already made of them. It sounds more like the pride you have as a convert is almost a reflection of what people say against it. In my opinion, you don't need to witness other people's negativity towards your faith and conversion to feel at peace with your faith (right or wrong, this is my opinion). We come from different backgrounds. I have no ill feelings against Islam but I can tell whether a religion or so have you influences people in one way over another. The religion is attractive because of it's followers not just the theology itself.

Today i saw many new OP that try to make Islam look faulty or evil. I was thinking ok, let them speak for them self. I do not need to take part in those threads anymore.

What is the purpose of watching them make Islam look faulty?

Maybe each person has their own experiences and reasons why they think Islam is one way over another? Conversion experiences do highlight the positives but shouldn't dismiss the negatives in light of that experience.

I do want to say one thing, I am sorry for my past comments about atheists or non believers in general. I know i said a lot of negative about them. So i do understand their critique of me. I am also sorry for the harm my comments have cause those who read them.

The thing is, though, Amanaki. Even so, there is still a disconnect between those who are not spiritual "and" those who see religion positive, whether they be non-believers, christians, athiests, or even Muslims, the intent is the same.

I think it's a work in progress. It won't happen over night. I just think that if the Quran teaches peace and Allah loves all people (I haven't read the Quran and know Muslim people to decide otherwise), your dialogue would change towards insightfulness and learning even if you don't care to hear the negatives.

As a Muslim i should not hate anyone, i do not wish harm upon anyone.

I do agree that my past views and opinions has been wrong from time to time.
So i do my best to stop critique others and focus more on my own faults so i can correct them.

We're just pointing out that your intentions are good and not mocking your conversion, but just want you to have some skepticism about your religion-regardless the religion-to understand all points of it and not just your experiences.

Each person says it differently. Some more harsh than others. But what I quoted from you, I'm not sure how to read that any other way.

If i ask others to stop making critique of me or my belief it is clearly my responsability to do the same toward others.

It's fine to critique, of course. Just be mindful people do have points well worth considering regardless your disagreements.

 

[ecco]

How many so called "Salafist Extremists" do you know personally or interacted with to understand what their knowledge in the Quran is to compare with everyone in this forum and make this claim you just made? Please explain how you judge their "knowing" as well. Whats the criteria you place?

That's really funny. Not too far back in this very thread you commented...

And if you ask for evidence to this "scriptural fact", some cut and pastes can be expected. Lists of verses which they don't understand but seem right to their cause. Lists which they have never studied in context of the whole book.

You clearly implied that posters in RF know little to nothing about the Koran.

Wouldn't you agree we know less than the average Salafist?
Wouldn't you agree that the average Salafist knows more than we?
Wouldn't you agree that some Salafists have committed atrocities? Even against other Muslims?

Special Reports - The Salafist Movement | Al Qaeda's New Front | FRONTLINE | PBS
In 1978, Takfir wal-Hirja members kidnapped and murdered an Egyptian ex-government minister, and Mustafa was executed. Although the organization was crushed, Takfir's ideology blossomed outside Egypt, with its adherents forming the most extreme and violent strand in the Salafist jihadist movement. Takfir followers believe it's acceptable to kill Muslims who are not pure enough. In 1994, Takfir gunmen killed 16 Muslim worshippers in the Sudan, and six years later, another Takfir follower slaughtered 20 people and wounded 33 others praying at a Sudanese mosque​

Can you point to any RF poster that has committed atrocities?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Congratulations Amanaki on becoming a Muslim! It indeed is truth I believe, and the Holy Quran a guidance to mankind. Islam, is a religion of peace, I firmly and unhesitatingly believe. The Quran always only teaches self defense. (Sura 2:190) Early Muslims in Muhammad’s time, only fought to defend themselves and freedom of worship. Later, after Muhammad’s passing, the Caliphs went against the law of non aggression clearly stated in the Quran because of the desire for wealth and power. They created many false Hadiths claiming Muhammad approved of aggression and murder in order to convince people to fight their illegal wars against the law of the Quran. They caused much suffering and death but none of it was approved by the Quran or Muhammad. These hadiths , to this day have poisoned the reputation of Islam. The Quran only is the Word of Allah nothing else.

Anyone who studies the Quran can discover for themselves that it only ever teaches peace and brotherhood. Unfortunately, enemies of Islam will quote these false hadiths laying blame on the impeccable character of Muhammad and those who disobey the Quran. But to those who know, Muhammad transformed the warring tribes of the Arabian Peninsula and made of them a great nation.

It seems like people are critiquing the religion because of its people not the religion as a theology. Using the theology as a reflection on how believers act because of it. If there weren't negativity from the people who follow various religions in general, we'd probably be indifferent if not ignorant to the religion's theology itself. A peaceful walk away with respectful critiques. When people's well-being and lives become involved, positives of theology takes the backseat to the victims of crimes with whom many say are at fault of the religious not its theology.