Question About the Nigerian School Girls

[esmith]

I am sure that by now most of you have heard about the outcry for something to be done about the incident in Nigeria. This outcry even has Michelle Obama and numerous celebrities advocating for something to be done. Now, who remembers the Pakistani girl that was shot in the face by the Taliban for going to school and advocating "Western thinking". You all with me so far....Nigerian school girls, Pakistani school girl. So let me ask all of you a very complicated question. What do you think will happen when the US and our Western allies leave Afghanistan and the Taliban return with their ideas about girls going to school and having "Western Ideas". Who is going to speak for them? I hear crickets when that happens. How say you?

 

[MD]

I am sure that by now most of you have heard about the outcry for something to be done about the incident in Nigeria. This outcry even has Michelle Obama and numerous celebrities advocating for something to be done. Now, who remembers the Pakistani girl that was shot in the face by the Taliban for going to school and advocating "Western thinking". You all with me so far....Nigerian school girls, Pakistani school girl. So let me ask all of you a very complicated question. What do you think will happen when the US and our Western allies leave Afghanistan and the Taliban return with their ideas about girls going to school and having "Western Ideas". Who is going to speak for them? I hear crickets when that happens. How say you?

Afghanis are not all like Taliban. Afghans are a mix of different tribes. Some tribes are more forward thinking, some are less. Afghanistan before the Soviet Union was pretty modern and forward thinking, atleast in the cities. Even during the taliban time, there was a civil war with the Northern Alliance. Also Karzai's Govt is becoming closer to India, a secular Hindu state rather than Pakistan, a semi theocracy.

American troops did their part and now it's time to leave. Staying behind would stifle any homegrown efforts to modernize and give the taliban more power.

 

[esmith]

Afghanis are not all like Taliban. Afghans are a mix of different tribes. Some tribes are more forward thinking, some are less. Afghanistan before the Soviet Union was pretty modern and forward thinking, atleast in the cities. Even during the taliban time, there was a civil war with the Northern Alliance. Also Karzai's Govt is becoming closer to India, a secular Hindu state rather than Pakistan, a semi theocracy.

American troops did their part and now it's time to leave. Staying behind would stifle any homegrown efforts to modernize and give the Taliban more power.

So, you believe in fairy tails also it seems. What do you assume the policies of the Taliban are toward women? Guess they are for the rights of women and young girls. Guess they aren't the ones that attempted to assassinate the young Pakistanian girl I mentioned earlier. Just who was it then. Maybe you should do some reading before assuming that the return of the Taliban to influence and power will not adversely affect women.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/w...lnerable-to-reversal-in-afghanistan.html?_r=0
The Taliban in Afghanistan - Council on Foreign Relations

 

[kashmir]

Its down right disturbing that the US waited three weeks to begin doing anything.
Same with N Korea, we all know what goes on over there and nothing is being done.

All the nations that support humanitarianism needs to begin doing something, rather than worry about the fight for oil and power.

I think this is what fuels fundie atheists, they at least are trying to "do something"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This outcry even has Michelle Obama and numerous celebrities advocating for something to be done.

You just can't seem to help sinking into despicable drivel …

 

[oldbadger]

Question About the Nigerian School Girls

You, Sir, are a brave man to post this thread.
I can only imagine what pressures might be exerted upon schools in distant lands, but in England, green and safe little England, some Muslim schools are having masses of problems. In order to obtain National funding, all schools here have to meet with standards and criteria as laid down by our government.

Last year on RF I mentioned reports from Lancashire, England about mistreatment of minors in Muslim schools..... these were ignored or pushed aside so aggressively by some of the members and I was so emptied of spirit over the thread that I forsook it and it was closed down........

At this time in safe little England, a number of Muslim schools in Birmingham have hit the headlines. There are so many reports that I will give one www site, and if you enter Trojan Horse Birmingham into the www then pages of sites will be offered to you.

As I understand it, Female teachers have come under pressure to leave, and many of the government's requirements have been abandoned by these schools. In my opinion this is the tip of the iceberg. If this happens in England (FGS) what could possibly happen in, say, Nigeria?

Although I was an Adults-teacher, I feel very strongly about good educational policy, training, planning, teaching, assessment and examination and this subject is normally too hot for me, these days.

Denialists will insult you, but you are not alone concerning this matter.

I never thought I would have to frubal you. You are fruballed!


EDIT: I forgot the links!
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/02/headteachers-union-trojan-horse-schools-birmingham
The National Association of Head Teachers says it has serious concerns over schools at the centre of the alleged Islamic plot in Birmingham, with the union's general secretary warning that Islamic groups wanted "a dominant influence" over schools in the city.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-27355014
More than 20 schools in Birmingham are being investigated after a letter, apparently sent to someone in Bradford, claimed a Muslim faction had sought to gain influence over schools and remove staff who were not sympathetic to its religious agenda.

 

[seeking4truth]

I wish there was a way to get all the women of Nigeria or indeed any other together to go themselves and sort out these so called men.
I wonder where are their mothers, aunts, sisters, wives and cousins.
Are they so terrorized that they cannot and do not speak against what these men are doing?
Women of Nigeria and its neighbours should stand together and stop all economic activity until the girls are found.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am sure that by now most of you have heard about the outcry for something to be done about the incident in Nigeria. This outcry even has Michelle Obama and numerous celebrities advocating for something to be done. Now, who remembers the Pakistani girl that was shot in the face by the Taliban for going to school and advocating "Western thinking". You all with me so far....Nigerian school girls, Pakistani school girl. So let me ask all of you a very complicated question. What do you think will happen when the US and our Western allies leave Afghanistan and the Taliban return with their ideas about girls going to school and having "Western Ideas". Who is going to speak for them? I hear crickets when that happens. How say you?

Bad things are happening now in these countries. Bad things will continue to happen
when we pull out militarily. Perhaps things will get even worse. But any good we do
(with questionable net effect) doesn't justify the price we pay.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Bad things are happening now in these countries. Bad things will continue to happen
when we pull our militarily. Perhaps things will get even worse. But any good we do
(with questionable net effect) doesn't justify the price we pay.

I agree 100%......

 

[Alceste]

I am sure that by now most of you have heard about the outcry for something to be done about the incident in Nigeria. This outcry even has Michelle Obama and numerous celebrities advocating for something to be done. Now, who remembers the Pakistani girl that was shot in the face by the Taliban for going to school and advocating "Western thinking". You all with me so far....Nigerian school girls, Pakistani school girl. So let me ask all of you a very complicated question. What do you think will happen when the US and our Western allies leave Afghanistan and the Taliban return with their ideas about girls going to school and having "Western Ideas". Who is going to speak for them? I hear crickets when that happens. How say you?

Nobody's doing anything for them right now. How do you think they came to be shot / abducted in the first place? When the US leaves, they will still live in a part of the world that is very risky for women and girls, just as they have the whole time we've been fighting there.

As for who will do something for them, my cousin probably will. In the course of her refugee work with the UN she has sat down with war lords in Nigeria and negotiated the release of dozens of captive boys and girls, even putting them up in her own home until other arrangements could be made.

The idea that you can get across the idea of respecting women with bombs and bullets is absurd.

 

[steeltoes]

We have the US to thank for the creation of the Taliban.

 

[Alceste]

We have the US to thank for the creation of the Taliban.

True. Women in Afghanistan were much, much better off when the country was under Soviet control.

 

[steeltoes]

True. Women in Afghanistan were much, much better off when the country was under Soviet control.

We have the US to thank for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as well.

 

[Alceste]

We have the US to thank for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan as well.

Really? I wouldn't go that far. Afghanistan was a satellite state of the USSR with a secular proxy government loyal to the soviets. At that time, women could work, drive, show their faces, go to school, etc.

The US funded Islamic terrorists to destabilize the secular, pro-Soviet government and provoke Russian army to invade to protect their assets.

If we can agree that those are the basic facts, then I think I'm referring to the Soviet controlled secular government and you are referring to the Russian army invasion that tried and failed to protect it, resulting in the country being controlled by the Taliban and hell on earth descending on the females in the region.

 

[steeltoes]

Really? I wouldn't go that far. Afghanistan was a satellite state of the USSR with a secular proxy government loyal to the soviets. At that time, women could work, drive, show their faces, go to school, etc.

The US funded Islamic terrorists to destabilize the secular, pro-Soviet government and provoke Russian army to invade to protect their assets.

If we can agree that those are the basic facts, then I think I'm referring to the Soviet controlled secular government and you are referring to the Russian army invasion that tried and failed to protect it, resulting in the country being controlled by the Taliban and hell on earth descending on the females in the region.

Like I said, we have the US to thank for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the creation of the Taliban. But I see your point and I am not really disagreeing with you.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

We can all play the blame game, but it's not very logical. Yes, the USA armed the Taliban, but they didn't create it. It started among the Pathans of Pakistan and southern Afghanistan. And no outsiders have created Boko Haran. Nor have outsiders been responsible for the treatment of women in other Islamic nations. There is a fundamental problem with some sectors of Sunni Islam and until the Muslim world faces up to it and puts its own house in order, that problem won't go away.

 

[esmith]

Nobody's doing anything for them right now. How do you think they came to be shot / abducted in the first place? When the US leaves, they will still live in a part of the world that is very risky for women and girls, just as they have the whole time we've been fighting there.

As for who will do something for them, my cousin probably will. In the course of her refugee work with the UN she has sat down with war lords in Nigeria and negotiated the release of dozens of captive boys and girls, even putting them up in her own home until other arrangements could be made.

The idea that you can get across the idea of respecting women with bombs and bullets is absurd.

I am asking about Afghanistan after the western world pulls out. Do you think that the problem that females will face once the Taliban return in force will be protested? Now I am not advocating that we remain there, that will not work and I am against it. What I am asking is where will be the voices that are now being raised be? Where were the voices when the senseless murders took place at the boarding school in Nigeria? Where were and are the voices for the thousand of children killed and being killed in Syria? How say the protesters at the University of Michigan at Dearborn and the University of Illinois in Chicago over a presentation of Muslim women speaking out against the oppression of women in their faith. Maybe the elitist are starting to see the problems; the Dorchester Hotels protest. Has the western world began to wake up to the problem of Islamic fundamentalist? Maybe and maybe not, look at the lashing out against Tony Blair on his stance on Islamic extremist by David Georgy of Meet the Press.

 

[esmith]

You just can't seem to help sinking into despicable drivel …

See my above post and that should answer your question. No, probably not because you probably can't see the hypocrisy or the problem

 

[Alceste]

Like I said, we have the US to thank for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the creation of the Taliban. But I see your point and I am not really disagreeing with you.

Yeah, we seem to agree. Just wanted a bit of clarification.

 

[Alceste]

Do you really think that, or have you been at the real potent weed? Try researching your information before making a total fool of yourself. The Taliban came about around 1990 as a force against the Soviets invasion of Afghanistan.

The Taliban in Afghanistan - Council on Foreign Relations
History of the Taliban

The soviets already controlled Afghanistan, esmith. The religious schools that spawned the Taliban were funded by Saudi Arabia and armed by the US. The border skirmishes that provoked the Soviet invasion were in the interests of the US, which is why they used to call these woman hating maniacs "freedom fighters".

The invasion was expensive and unwinnable and the expense contributed to the collapse of the USSR, which is why Reagan often gets the credit for that in the US.

Ironic that a few presidents later, the US almost economically collapsed in an unwinnable war against the very same woman hating maniacs they funded and armed to bankrupt the USSR.