Question for former theists...

[firedragon]

No. By definition, Universe means all that exists. How can there be more than one "all that exists"?

You should use the same logic.

 

[Kfox]

You should use the same logic.

You can't use the same logic because by definition you can't have more than one "all".

 

[firedragon]

No. By definition, Universe means all that exists. How can there be more than one "all that exists"?

No problem. Use the same logic.

 

[firedragon]

You can't use the same logic because by definition you can't have more than one "all".

I say again, use the same logic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you mean necessary being, it is a necessary thing which means it does not bank on anything and other things will ultimately bank on it but by itself, it is not not relying or banking on anything else outside of it.

Then my example of the universe being the only "necessary being" that I can think of still holds. The concept does not support the existence of a God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No problem. Use the same logic.

Please, this is simply goading. He did use appropriate logic. You have yet to show how this generates a need for a deity at all.

 

[stvdv]

I've never claimed to be smart BUT give me an example of the evidence that has been found.

You made a generalizing claim which is wrong

 

[firedragon]

Please, this is simply goading. He did use appropriate logic. You have yet to show how this generates a need for a deity at all.

Thats not what he was asking.

 

[firedragon]

Then my example of the universe being the only "necessary being" that I can think of still holds.

How can a necessary being begin?

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can a necessary being begin?

We don't know exactly how the universe began yet. But why do you think that it cannot begin to exist. We know that the universe exists. We do not know that a God exists. No one has demonstrated as of yet a valid reason to believe in a God.

One thing that people should realize. Sometimes the correct answer to a question is "We don't know yet."

 

[firedragon]

We don't know exactly how the universe began yet. But why do you think that it cannot begin to exist. We know that the universe exists. We do not know that a God exists. No one has demonstrated as of yet a valid reason to believe in a God.

One thing that people should realize. Sometimes the correct answer to a question is "We don't know yet."

Its like asking "why cant a triangle be a circle".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Its like asking "why cant a triangle be a circle".

Not even close. Time is part of the universe. No universe, no time. They had to begin together.

 

[firedragon]

Not even close. Time is part of the universe. No universe, no time. They had to begin together.

necessary being by definition is "necessary", and cannot begin.

So that question is invalid.

 

[Subduction Zone]

necessary being by definition is "necessary", and cannot begin.

So that question is invalid.

Then your term is of no value since it appears to go against reality. You only refute yourself by artificially limiting your terms when they fail.

 

[Kfox]

No problem. Use the same logic.

We’ve been over this already; if the Universe is all that exists, you can’t have more than one Universe.

I say again, use the same logic.

It is illogical to ask the same question over and over expecting a different response.

 

[Kfox]

How can a necessary being begin?

What makes you think the Universe began to exist?

 

[firedragon]

Then your term is of no value since it appears to go against reality. You only refute yourself by artificially limiting your terms when they fail.

Great.

 

[firedragon]

What makes you think the Universe began to exist?

He said it did.

 

[firedragon]

We’ve been over this already; if the Universe is all that exists, you can’t have more than one Universe.

It is illogical to ask the same question over and over expecting a different response.

Yes. IT is illogical to ask the same question over and over again expecting a different response.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes. IT is illogical to ask the same question over and over again expecting a different response.

Then quit.