Question for jehovah's witness

[Frank Goad]

In Psalms 139:7-8 it says if the author goes to sheol God is there with them.But if you read Isaiah 38:17 it uses the words pit of corruption when it refers to the grave.So if you read Isaiah 38:17.God can't be with you in the grave like in Psalms 139:7-8.Because your mind and body are destroyed.I am confused.I need a jw to help me with this.

 

[savagewind]

If they respond at all they might refer you to The Watchtower. If you will glean through it though it may take you a hundred years, you just might find the answer. But, you might find the idea within that you should be baptized before any real help can come from Jehovah.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

If you were able to understand the Bible you wouldn’t have the need to ask a JW to explain it to you. Nor would you ever have come up with such an op.

Not only does my bible NOT say what you said, but your “interpretations” are even further from reality.

However, I have every confidence a JW will help to correct your errors.

But the real question is: will you listen or just dismiss what you are told?

 

[savagewind]

Ask The Holy Spirit to help you.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

In Psalms 139:7-8 it says if the author goes to sheol God is there with them.But if you read Isaiah 38:17 it uses the words pit of corruption when it refers to the grave.So if you read Isaiah 38:17.God can't be with you in the grave like in Psalms 139:7-8.Because your mind and body are destroyed.I am confused.I need a jw to help me with this.

Ok, I decided to try to shed some light in the darkness of the op.


Let’s examine the verses.


Isaiah 38:17 17Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back.


What is the ‘pit of destruction’?

Certainly NOT the grave. Isaiah is referring to the present time (for him). It’s also, a message to all of us.

I have been in the pit of destruction. That is generally the case when I need to do things my way. Once I follow the Lord, I no longer have to reside in the pit of destruction. My pit of destruction was especially bad at one time many years back (it became depression).


Now, let’s examine the other verse.


Psalm 139:7-10 7Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast.


Very beautiful verses. Nothing about graves, for crying out loud.

David is commenting on the fact that the Lord is with him always. In his life, NOT in a grave.

If he ‘goes to the heavens’, the Lord is there. He doesn’t say, WHEN he dies and goes to heaven. It’s a statement referring to when he lives in heaven while on this earth.

If he ‘makes his bed in the depths’ has nothing to do with a grave. What does it have to do with? It’s about our decisions while living on this world. When David had an adulterous relationship with his friend’s wife, made her pregnant, and subsequently had his friend murdered, do you NOT THINK that this would be a pretty good example of making your bed in the depths?

Yet, David, lets us know that the Lord is with us always, during times when we’re good people and times when we’re bad.


I’ve been in heaven, and I’ve been in the depths, and I now know that the Lord is always there with me.


So, if you have a legitimate question for Jehovah’s Witnesses, please ask it in a loving manner.

If you just want to post an antagonism against there beliefs, perhaps it may be wise to examine your motives.

 

[shmogie]

If you were able to understand the Bible you wouldn’t have the need to ask a JW to explain it to you. Nor would you ever have come up with such an op.

Not only does my bible NOT say what you said, but your “interpretations” are even further from reality.

However, I have every confidence a JW will help to correct your errors.

But the real question is: will you listen or just dismiss what you are told?

So master of all understanding, did you write your own Bible ?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

So master of all understanding, did you write your own Bible ?

I guess it makes you feel better to make obnoxious asinine comments, when you cannot grasp what you’re reading. You’re very repetitive and predictable.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I guess it makes you feel better to make obnoxious asinine comments, when you cannot grasp what you’re reading. You’re very repetitive and predictable.

If you should come up with something thoughtful, please post them. Mean spirited posts only harm the author.

 

[shmogie]

I guess it makes you feel better to make obnoxious asinine comments, when you cannot grasp what you’re reading. You’re very repetitive and predictable.

You didn´t answer the question. You keep saying to others that if they could only understand the Bible, like you, they would be better off.

So again, what Bible do you use ?

 

[shmogie]

If you should come up with something thoughtful, please post them. Mean spirited posts only harm the author.

No, not a mean spirited post, a bit of hyperbole for one who implies he understands, but apparently no one else does.

Again, if you use a version that is a flawed translation, you understand error.

So, what is it ?

 

[savagewind]

Here's the solution. Use them all!
Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages

 

[danieldemol]

I’ve been in heaven, and I’ve been in the depths, and I now know that the Lord is always there with me.

I might be wrong, but according to my understanding JWs don’t believe humans can have been in heaven since they don’t see heaven as a spiritual state for ordinary humans, but rather as a place for the spirit body of Jesus to reside with God until He returns.
Also I don’t think you addressed the word “Sheol” with respect to JW understanding of the word.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I might be wrong, but according to my understanding JWs don’t believe humans can have been in heaven since they don’t see heaven as a spiritual state for ordinary humans, but rather as a place for the spirit body of Jesus to reside with God until He returns.
Also I don’t think you addressed the word “Sheol” with respect to JW understanding of the word.

I didn’t find Sheol in my version. My version has what I wrote.
I don’t really know the JW beliefs. I hope a JW will give us some response here.

 

[Frank Goad]

If you were able to understand the Bible you wouldn’t have the need to ask a JW to explain it to you. Nor would you ever have come up with such an op.

Not only does my bible NOT say what you said, but your “interpretations” are even further from reality.

However, I have every confidence a JW will help to correct your errors.

But the real question is: will you listen or just dismiss what you are told?

What version of the bible do you use?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

What version of the bible do you use?

Those were from the NIV. I do read many versions to try to get at the truth, since there are so many errors in many versions, some of them purposely done by scribes with a particular agenda.

But, nonetheless, the meaning of the verses you chose can be found in any version.

Thank you for asking.

 

[Deeje]

In Psalms 139:7-8 it says if the author goes to sheol God is there with them.But if you read Isaiah 38:17 it uses the words pit of corruption when it refers to the grave.So if you read Isaiah 38:17.God can't be with you in the grave like in Psalms 139:7-8.Because your mind and body are destroyed.I am confused.I need a jw to help me with this.

For what its worth Frank....from the NWT

"Where can I escape from your spirit,
And where can I run away from your face?

8 If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there,
And if I were to make my bed in the Grave, [sheol] look! you would be there."

This is figurative, not literal. The Psalmist is asking where there is a place where God can't see you or find you.

God is with those in the grave inasmuch as he remembers all who have passed away and assures the dead (who have not been sent to "gehenna"; everlasting death) that they will receive a resurrection, whether righteous or unrighteous...all are called from the same place...their graves. (John 5:28-29)

Isaiah 38:17....
"Look! Instead of peace, I had great bitterness;
But in your fondness for me,
You preserved me from the pit of destruction.

You have thrown all my sins behind your back."

The pit of destruction or corruption is the literal grave where bodies decay.

'King Hezekiah foolishly displayed all this wealth possibly to impress the king of Babylon as a possible ally against the king of Assyria. This, of course, could tend to excite the greed of the Babylonians. The prophet Isaiah was against any alliance with or dependence on God’s age-old enemy Babylon. When Isaiah heard how Hezekiah had treated the Babylonian messengers, he uttered the inspired prophecy from Jehovah that the Babylonians in time would carry away everything to Babylon, including some of Hezekiah’s descendants. Hezekiah, however, humbled himself and God kindly allowed that the calamity would not come in his days.'
Hezekiah — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Similarly, King David was not given the full penalty for his sins because God saw that he had a good heart. Both adultery and murder, (of which David was guilty,) carried the death penalty. God forgave him because he sincerely repented.

You cannot pluck verse out of context and expect them to make sense. They are meant to be read in their setting and in accord with what the Bible in its entirety teaches, or you will just get confused. But if you study the Bible systematically, topic by topic, you will find that there are no contradictions or inconsistencies that argue with the Bible's overall theme.

 

[Deeje]

I might be wrong, but according to my understanding JWs don’t believe humans can have been in heaven since they don’t see heaven as a spiritual state for ordinary humans, but rather as a place for the spirit body of Jesus to reside with God until He returns.

We have the words of the apostle John....

John 3:13...."no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man."

No one went to heaven before Jesus and no one followed him until it was time for his Kingdom to be established in heaven. It began with Christ's coronation recorded in Daniel 7:13-14 in vision, written over 500 years before Jesus was even born. He was to "sit at God's right hand" awaiting the time when his Father would "place his enemies as a stool for his feet". (Psalm 110:1-2) He was then to "go subduing in the midst" of those enemies.

So for us 1914 is the year of Christ's installation as King of God's Kingdom and his first act in that role was to cleanse the heavens, throwing satan and his hordes down to the earth, where they would wreak havoc until the system of things controlled by the devil was brought to nothing (Revelation 12:7-12).....crushed out of existence and replaced with God's rulership forever. (Daniel 2:44) The result of this is recorded in Revelation 21:2-4....

"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Also I don’t think you addressed the word “Sheol” with respect to JW understanding of the word.

Our understanding of "sheol" is the original Jewish understanding of the word....before they sold out to the doctrine of immortality of the soul from the influential Greeks. When God says you die, then he doesn't mean that you live on in some invisible form in an invisible place. The dead are not alive anywhere. (Ecclesiastes 9:10)

When Adam was told that he would die if he ate from the forbidden fruit, he was not given a "heaven or hell" scenario, he was simply told that he would go back where he came from....back to the dust. (Genesis 3:19)

Where were we before our parents conceived us? We simply didn't exist.

 

[Frank Goad]

For what its worth Frank....from the NWT

"Where can I escape from your spirit,
And where can I run away from your face?

8 If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there,
And if I were to make my bed in the Grave, [sheol] look! you would be there."

This is figurative, not literal. The Psalmist is asking where there is a place where God can't see you or find you.

How can God see you or find you in sheol?

 

[Deeje]

How can God see you or find you in sheol?

Do you have someone close who has passed away? Where do you visit them? Isn't it where they are buried or where their remains are? That is sheol. God can resurrect those in sheol. He has to know who they are, and where they are in order to return them to life. They sleep in death, but God can awaken them as easily as Jesus raised Lazarus. Read John 11:11-14 and tell me where Jesus said Lazarus was....?

According to Psalms 147:4-5....
"He [Jehovah] counts the number of the stars;
He calls all of them by name.

5 Our Lord is great and is mighty in power;
His understanding is beyond measure."

If God knows all the stars by name, then remembering humans should be no problem.

 

[Frank Goad]

How can God see you or find you in sheol?

Do you have someone close who has passed away? Where do you visit them? Isn't it where they are buried or where their remains are? That is sheol. God can resurrect those in sheol. He has to know who they are, and where they are in order to return them to life. They sleep in death, but God can awaken them as easily as Jesus raised Lazarus. Read John 11:11-14 and tell me where Jesus said Lazarus was....?

According to Psalms 147:4-5....
"He [Jehovah] counts the number of the stars;
He calls all of them by name.

5 Our Lord is great and is mighty in power;
His understanding is beyond measure."

If God knows all the stars by name, then remembering humans should be no problem.

If your in sheol you cease to exist.So what is there to see or find?