Question for Jews : Has the Kingdom in Daniel 2:44 been set up?

[TrueBeliever37]

According to Jewish beliefs, has the kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:44 ever been set up? It was supposed to have been set up in the days of these kings, after talking about 4 world kingdoms/empires that would come to be.

Nebuchadnezzer was going to be over the first kingdom, the Babylonian empire.
Next there would be a Medo/Persian Empire, then a Grecian Empire, and finally a 4th kingdom, the Roman Empire. Verse 44 said that in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.

We are past the time when this kingdom should have been set up. So this should have already happened the way I see it. Please explain this verse from the Jewish perspective.

 

[Rival]

Does it look like it?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Does it look like it?

Not an explanation or a definite answer. Also, will you please explain to me what a Noahide is?

I guess in answer to your question, I believe that it was the kingdom set up by the Messiah when he came. But the Jews don't believe he has come, so I wanted to understand what they think about the verse.

 

[Rival]

Not an explanation or a definite answer. Also, will you please explain to me what a Noahide is?

See here . If you are not born Jewish you are a Noahide.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

See here . If you are not born Jewish you are a Noahide.

Hopefully you aren't the only one willing to respond. Was your answer that the kingdom has not been set up yet?

Doesn't it bother you to know that it is supposed to have been set up by now, but yet there seems to be no answer, other than that the Messiah has come, and set up the kingdom/church?

Although I will say the trinity is a big misinterpretation of the scriptures. I can see why the Jews won't accept that.

 

[Rival]

Hopefully you aren't the only one willing to respond. Was your answer that the kingdom has not been set up yet?

Doesn't it bother you to know that it is supposed to have been set up by now, but yet there seems to be no answer, other than that the Messiah has come, and set up the kingdom/church?

Although I will say the trinity is a big misinterpretation of the scriptures. I can see why the Jews won't accept that.

My answer is no, the Kingdom is clearly not here yet as the Moshiach is not here.

And no, it doesn't bother me.

@Tumah

 

[TrueBeliever37]

My answer is no, the Kingdom is clearly not here yet as the Moshiach is not here.

And no, it doesn't bother me.

@Tumah

Ok - Just wondered - Have a great day.

It just always bothers me if there is something that seems to conflict with what I believe. I have to search until I find an answer that satisfies me.

 

[rosends]

According to Jewish beliefs, has the kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:44 ever been set up? It was supposed to have been set up in the days of these kings, after talking about 4 world kingdoms/empires that would come to be.

Nebuchadnezzer was going to be over the first kingdom, the Babylonian empire.
Next there would be a Medo/Persian Empire, then a Grecian Empire, and finally a 4th kingdom, the Roman Empire. Verse 44 said that in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.

We are past the time when this kingdom should have been set up. So this should have already happened the way I see it. Please explain this verse from the Jewish perspective.

According to Jewish belief, this kingdom has not been set up. As we are still in the Roman exile, the Roman kingdom still holds sway and we await the establishing of this messianic kingdom.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

According to Jewish belief, this kingdom has not been set up. As we are still in the Roman exile, the Roman kingdom still holds sway and we await the establishing of this messianic kingdom.

But it said in the days of these kings, shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, and there are no longer kings/emperors over the Roman Empire. The empire has fallen and is no longer a world empire. Since none of these world kingdoms exist anymore, how would this ever be able to be fulfilled. It looks like it would have had to have already been fulfilled.

 

[Shaul]

According to Jewish beliefs, has the kingdom mentioned in Daniel 2:44 ever been set up? It was supposed to have been set up in the days of these kings, after talking about 4 world kingdoms/empires that would come to be.

Nebuchadnezzer was going to be over the first kingdom, the Babylonian empire.
Next there would be a Medo/Persian Empire, then a Grecian Empire, and finally a 4th kingdom, the Roman Empire. Verse 44 said that in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.

We are past the time when this kingdom should have been set up. So this should have already happened the way I see it. Please explain this verse from the Jewish perspective.

That kingdom has not been set up yet. You are in error to think it is late, it isn’t. We are still in the remaining days of the fourth kingdom where the remnants of the Roman “kingdom” has devolved and splintered into its “feet of clay”. The phrase “in those days” is a literary device that alludes to the age when the moshiach comes. This everlasting kingdom isn’t late since the moshiach hasn’t come yet.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

FWIW, I could care less what Daniel says.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

That kingdom has not been set up yet. You are in error to think it is late, it isn’t. We are still in the remaining days of the fourth kingdom where the remnants of the Roman “kingdom” has devolved and splintered into its “feet of clay”. The phrase “in those days” is a literary device that alludes to the age when the moshiach comes. This everlasting kingdom isn’t late since the moshiach hasn’t come yet.

Hi Shaul, thanks for responding
Please look at my post #9

 

[Shaul]

But it said in the days of these kings, shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, and there are no longer kings/emperors over the Roman Empire. The empire has fallen and is no longer a world empire. Since none of these world kingdoms exist anymore, how would this ever be able to be fulfilled. It looks like it would have had to have already been fulfilled.

We are still in the fourth kingdom. Even though the Roman Empire is secularly gone, we still live in the spiritual remnants of it, its “feet of clay”. Think about it. Roman was figured as “iron”. But it becomes “clay”. Just as clay isn’t iron so our current political entities aren’t Roman but are the remnants of Rome. Our systems don’t “mingle” with the Roman Empire government but the current world order is a legacy of Rome. It’s not that difficult.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

FWIW, I could care less what Daniel says.

Does that mean you don't consider Daniel to be a prophet?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

We are still in the fourth kingdom. Even though the Roman Empire is secularly gone, we still live in the spiritual remnants of it, its “feet of clay”. Think about it. Roman was figured as “iron”. But it becomes “clay”. Just as clay isn’t iron so our current political entities aren’t Roman but are the remnants of Rome. Our systems don’t “mingle” with the Roman Empire government but the current world order is a legacy of Rome. It’s not that difficult.

But how would it be set up in the days of these kings, since the kings aren't around anymore?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Does that mean you don't consider Daniel to be a prophet?

I don't consider Daniel to be a person.

 

[Shaul]

Does that mean you don't consider Daniel to be a prophet?

Actually, Judaism doesn’t refer to Daniel as a prophet. Allow me to elaborate. In Judaism a prophet, called a Navi, is one that speaks truth to people so they will repent. Daniel never does that. Daniel certainly had visions. But in Judaism having visions is not what makes someone a prophet. Some others had visions but also were not called prophets such as Jacob and Abraham. So, Daniel was a seer, yes, but not a Navi, not a prophet. That is why the book of Daniel of in the Khetubim, the scroll of writings, and not in the Neviim, the scroll of prophets.

By the way, do you know who else in the Jewish Scriptures saw the end days in a vision? It was Jacob.

 

[rosends]

But it said in the days of these kings, shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, and there are no longer kings/emperors over the Roman Empire. The empire has fallen and is no longer a world empire. Since none of these world kingdoms exist anymore, how would this ever be able to be fulfilled. It looks like it would have had to have already been fulfilled.

It means in the days of the dominion of this kingdom. As we are still under the rule of the Roman exile, their dominion still holds.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

It means in the days of the dominion of this kingdom. As we are still under the rule of the Roman exile, their dominion still holds.

Would you please elaborate as to how we are still under Roman dominion or rule?

 

[Shaul]

But how would it be set up in the days of these kings, since the kings aren't around anymore?

“Kings” is the English translation. Use “Rulers” if that helps. There are rulers of the nations today even if we don’t call them kings.