Question

[Awkward Fingers]

On a completely unrelated topic, hey! I'm a sophomore member all of a sudden!
I moved up!!! Go me!

 

[Amechania]

I think atheists are simply trying to find a reasonable explanation for belief in the existence of god, or in anything supernatural. They are people who demand proof, or at least a logical argument. Theists are already convinced of something that seemingly defies reason and is ultimately evidenced by experience, so it is inevitable that the two would clash. I don't think there is any hidden atheist agenda for the most part; no anti-apostles going forth to unmake disciples of all men.

 

[Breathe]

And it never will be, because people want true debate, and stimulation, brought about by debate and rebuttal, between real, intelligent, opposing sides.

It doesn't help that it's a hidden section, but at the same time that's one of the good things about it. Away from prying eyes.

 

[Ingledsva]

It doesn't help that it's a hidden section, but at the same time that's one of the good things about it. Away from prying eyes.

Those sections aren't hidden. It is just that more people like open debate, so there are more people posting here.



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[Breathe]

Those sections aren't hidden.

No; they are hidden sections of the forum.

 

[Pink Top Hat]

It all just seems strange to me.

Spending hours debating something you don't believe in.

It would be like me joining a forum I suppose about the earth being made from blue cheese. I don't believe that so can't imagine spending hours daily talking about that subject.

I don't come here to convert anyone. I come here and other forums to read to see how widespread the misinformation about Islam is, how quotes are taken out of context etc, and also to see how little Christians actually know about their own religion.

 

[Awkward Fingers]

To be fair, not knowing your location may change my response a little.. however.
I see nothing too strange with an atheist coming to a religious forum.
Whether we believe in a god or not, religion is a large part of our lives. It influences our laws, our schools, our friends and neighbors and deciding where our tax dollars go.
And as many atheists say, all we want is evidence. Although I don't come here expecting some new solid piece of evidence, it is nice to see new arguments for either side, and think about them.

 

[Ingledsva]

It all just seems strange to me.

Spending hours debating something you don't believe in.

It would be like me joining a forum I suppose about the earth being made from blue cheese. I don't believe that so can't imagine spending hours daily talking about that subject.

I don't come here to convert anyone. I come here and other forums to read to see how widespread the misinformation about Islam is, how quotes are taken out of context etc, and also to see how little Christians actually know about their own religion.

Your believing the earth is made of blue cheese, doesn't impact my life.


However, Islam and Christianity both try to force their religious ideas and laws into being, in the secular world. That does impact me.


Thus people like me have every right to debate religion on these forums.


With that said, as I've said before, I studied Archaeology, and Comparative Religions. I am interested in the movements of ancient people, and the transfer of though, language, philosophy, and religion, and its impact.




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[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Why are religious forums filled with athiests trying to convince people not to believe in God, first because their mission is practically impossible because few believers will change to athiesm, second because what's the point when they could be on other forums chatting about things they do believe in?

It's always been a mystery to me why athiests spend so much time and energy on religious forums when they could be doing other things like ........ :beach: :grill::canoe: :disco: :guitar1: :fishing:

Maybe its an element of doubt , i don't think one chooses atheism think it develops more as a realization than simply picking a religion .
I understand why atheists are here myself can't understand agnostics they already decided its irrelevant so in theory i would think they be the ones doing something else ?.

 

[Sunstone]

Why are religious forums filled with athiests trying to convince people not to believe in God, first because their mission is practically impossible because few believers will change to athiesm, second because what's the point when they could be on other forums chatting about things they do believe in?

Some religion-based beliefs -- such as the immorality of homosexuality -- can have consequences for people who do not hold those particular beliefs. For instance, religious people who believe homosexuality is immoral may seek to impose that belief on everyone -- not just members of their own religion. One of the main reasons, I think, that so many atheists are concerned with religion is because they are aware of how harmful religions have been at times to their interests, freedoms, and liberties.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Where is the line between someone explaining an opinion they hold that you don't, and someone trying to talk you into understanding their opinion by explaining it to you, and someone trying to convince you to see things their way.

Just so. It's why I've never really appreciated, or even understood, the rule against proselytizing. What's the real difference between arguing for our position vs. proselytizing? I dunno.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

It would be like me joining a forum I suppose about the earth being made from blue cheese. I don't believe that so can't imagine spending hours daily talking about that subject.

If BlueCheesianity were the major religion, you'd feel no need to argue that the earth is actually made of rock?

I would. But I do love to argue.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't come here to convert anyone. I come here and other forums to read to see how widespread the misinformation about Islam is, how quotes are taken out of context etc, and also to see how little Christians actually know about their own religion.

Well, it is true that Muslims take things out of context, but it's not something we cannot work around. That said, given the wide divergence of opinions in Islamic jurisprudence how can any single Muslim really clarify all that much? In all seriousness, in many areas, whatever position you wish to take can be thwarted by the views of boatloads of Islamic "scholars" who disagree. Granted, you can trot out your boatload of "scholars" who agree with your interpretations, but it just underscores that Islam is whatever people want to make it.

 

[Drolefille]

Maybe its an element of doubt , i don't think one chooses atheism think it develops more as a realization than simply picking a religion .
I understand why atheists are here myself can't understand agnostics they already decided its irrelevant so in theory i would think they be the ones doing something else ?.

Agnostics haven't decided that it's irrelevant necessarily. They've said they have no way to know. Some agnostics have had experiences that have made them feel they do KNOW all of a sudden.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Just so. It's why I've never really appreciated, or even understood, the rule against proselytizing. What's the real difference between arguing for our position vs. proselytizing? I dunno.

"I believe....." verses "you will burn in hell if you do not believe"
Or, "Accept christ or we will burn you to purify your soul"
Or, ..well

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

"I believe....." verses "you will burn in hell if you do not believe"
Or, "Accept christ or we will burn you to purify your soul"
Or, ..well

So you would hold that only religious people can proselytize?

To me it seems that proselytizing and 'trying to convince' can mean about the same thing.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

So you would hold that only religious people can proselytize?

To me it seems that proselytizing and 'trying to convince' can mean about the same thing.

Why are you putting words in my mouth? You asked me the difference, I pointed it out.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Why are you putting words in my mouth? You asked me the difference, I pointed it out.

I asked you a question based on what you said. If you'd rather not answer my question, that's OK.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I asked you a question based on what you said. If you'd rather not answer my question, that's OK.

I think the word proselytism has been reserved for religious spheres. In other spheres in might be called torture, brainwashing, indoctrination, shunning, and maybe at times a debate. All of these techniques have been used for the purpose of 'changing someone's mind.' The difference is that 'convincing' someone, in that general term, limits itself to conversation.

 

[Badran]

Just so. It's why I've never really appreciated, or even understood, the rule against proselytizing. What's the real difference between arguing for our position vs. proselytizing? I dunno.

The difference in part is in presentation, but it can be done subtly, so presentation isn't everything.

If someone simply presents their views as their views, whether it was an explanation of a personally held belief or criticism of a belief held by others, it's not considered proselytism.

If on the other hand someone inappropriately asserts that their views are more than their views (in some regards), but are rather facts (directly or indirectly), or, dismisses the other side's view inappropriately on similar grounds, it's usually considered to cross the line.

There are further details put into consideration for determining whether or not certain statements should be considered to cross that line, but the above is the easiest way to to explain the idea.

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