Questions about Christianity and Mormonism

[Watchmen]

I don't see any "bait and switch".

I have read the Bible and understand the concept of "milk before meat" - so the idea of teaching basics before diving into the "extreme meat" is not unreasonable or dishonest.

Besides - there are many people who like "extreme meat" - so the term "extreme" is completely subjective.

And since nothing is literally being bought or sold - I don't see how anything illegal is going on.

Do you think that women wearing make-up should be made illegal - since it can be argued as a "bait and switch" practice?

And I don't understand how I am a religious zealot for defending the Mormons or any other religion who wants to proselytize or set their own standards.

Of course you don’t see the bait and switch. You’re in too deep. And it’s not illegal—it’s immoral.

 

[Watchmen]

You're pretty stupid if that's what you think I'm going to do. You know me a whole lot better than that.

Pentecostal Christianity is radically different from Roman Catholicism. So freaking what? The basis of all of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World. That one unifying doctrine is bigger than all of their other differences. At any rate, I'm not looking for an argument with you, Watchman. I remember when you first left the Church. You told me of your decision and then promised you weren't going to turn into some kind of anti-Mormon. You may feel as if that hasn't happened, but I think it has. We used to be friends, and I'd prefer to remember you as the kind of person you used to be. I think it best that I just not respond to your posts in the future. If you want to badmouth your former Church, knock yourself out. Just don't expect me to be baited into any more discussions with you. I'm pretty close to being done with RF altogether anyway. I hardly ever post any more.

You shouldn’t call people stupid. Pretty bad way to engage in a discussion. I thought you were better than that.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Could you be more specific please? You might start with showing us where in the Bible, the Trinity (as defined by the 4th and 5th century creeds) is taught. Mormonism is much closer to ancient Judeo-Christianity than Hellenized Christianity is.

Mormonisim henotheism deviates from monotheism even more than trinitarianism does. Mormons add a whole bunch more books to their canon. It's not the same religion as mainstream christianity. It's sort of like the Bahai's coming around with a new prophet and new writings, and then not understanding why Muslims consider them heretics.

 

[Firelight]

Christianity is the chocolate chip cookie. Mormons are oatmeal raisin. Looks similar, but not the same thing. Are you going to suggest raisins are the same as chocolate chips? The Mormon Church’s beliefs about the godhead for example are so fundamentally different than tradition Christianity it is like the raisin vs the chocolate chip. Might look similar in the cookie, but further investigation shows they’re vastly different.

This is the traditional Christian definition of God:

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

I was on another thread where someone had posted the Mormon description of God and was trying to discredit Mormons as Christians with it. But, Mormons believe in the same three members of the Godhead as is described in Christian doctrine! How can you say it is “so fundamentally different?”

Ask 100 random Christian individuals to explain the Trinity beyond the listed definition above and you will get many different explanations. Why single out the one church for being different or non-Christian? Based on their clear explanation of the Godhead, Mormons would likely have conformity when asked to explain God/Trinity beyond the traditional Christian definition.

 

[Firelight]

Sure, but their differences are far more extreme than they let on.

Extreme? In what way?

You declare them non-Christian because you see them as “extreme.” Do they teach principles that lead their members away from Christ?

They believe Jesus is Savior, such belief makes one a Christian.

 

[Firelight]

It’s a total bait and switch, which is illegal I. The commercial context. Again, you don’t see it because you’re a religious zealot.

Bait and switch? Commercial context? What are you talking about?

 

[Firelight]

The “Jesus” that Mormons believe in is now that of traditional Christianity. Hence the chocolate chip versus raisin analogy.

So you’re now saying that the Jesus that Mormons believe in is that of traditional Christianity? So, you agree they are Christians.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This is the traditional Christian definition of God:

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

I was on another thread where someone had posted the Mormon description of God and was trying to discredit Mormons as Christians with it. But, Mormons believe in the same three members of the Godhead as is described in Christian doctrine! How can you say it is “so fundamentally different?”

Ask 100 random Christian individuals to explain the Trinity beyond the listed definition above and you will get many different explanations. Why single out the one church for being different or non-Christian? Based on their clear explanation of the Godhead, Mormons would likely have conformity when asked to explain God/Trinity beyond the traditional Christian definition.

Mormons are not trinitarians. They are henotheists.

 

[Firelight]

Oh there are plenty of victims. Many members are subjected to physical, sexual, financial and other abuses but are too brainwashed to recognize this until severe damage has been done.

What do you mean? How? Does their church participate in corporal punishment or something? That is hard to believe. I am aware of cults like Warren Jeffs’ that broke off from the main stream church a hundred years ago that have had some very unsavory practices.

 

[Watchmen]

This is the traditional Christian definition of God:

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

I was on another thread where someone had posted the Mormon description of God and was trying to discredit Mormons as Christians with it. But, Mormons believe in the same three members of the Godhead as is described in Christian doctrine! How can you say it is “so fundamentally different?”

Ask 100 random Christian individuals to explain the Trinity beyond the listed definition above and you will get many different explanations. Why single out the one church for being different or non-Christian? Based on their clear explanation of the Godhead, Mormons would likely have conformity when asked to explain God/Trinity beyond the traditional Christian definition.

Let’s start with this: Traditional Christianity believes the Trinity to be a single entity. Mormons believe they are three distinct entities.

Traditional Christianity teaches Jesus was God incarnate. Mormons believe Jesus was a premortal spirit who became the physical offspring of God when born of Mary.

I could go on.

 

[Watchmen]

Extreme? In what way?

You declare them non-Christian because you see them as “extreme.” Do they teach principles that lead their members away from Christ?

They believe Jesus is Savior, such belief makes one a Christian.

The “Jesus” they believe in is vastly different. See prior post for starters.

 

[Watchmen]

So you’re now saying that the Jesus that Mormons believe in is that of traditional Christianity? So, you agree they are Christians.

Typo. Should say “not,” not “now.”

 

[Watchmen]

What do you mean? How? Does their church participate in corporal punishment or something? That is hard to believe. I am aware of cults like Warren Jeffs’ that broke off from the main stream church a hundred years ago that have had some very unsavory practices.

Sex abuse. See the many lawsuits.
Asking teenage boys about their masturbation practices.
Shall I go on?

 

[Katzpur]

Mormonisim henotheism deviates from monotheism even more than trinitarianism does. Mormons add a whole bunch more books to their canon. It's not the same religion as mainstream christianity. It's sort of like the Bahai's coming around with a new prophet and new writings, and then not understanding why Muslims consider them heretics.

It's unfortunate that some people just don't seem capable of making a distinction between "Christianity" and "mainstream Christianity." Mormons are Christians; they are not mainstream Christians. I have never in my life identified as a mainstream Christian. Christians, unlike members of the other Abrahamic religions look to Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as their Redeemer. That's really the only criterion one must meet to be considered a Christian. I fail to see why people have to make it so complicated when it really isn't at all.

I'm curious... Do the various sects within Judaism have these issues with each other. Do Orthodox Jews claim that Reform Jews aren't the real thing, or are they able to just live and let live?

 

[Firelight]

Let’s start with this: Traditional Christianity believes the Trinity to be a single entity. Mormons believe they are three distinct entities.

Traditional Christianity teaches Jesus was God incarnate. Mormons believe Jesus was a premortal spirit who became the physical offspring of God when born of Mary.

I could go on.

As I said in my previous post, explanations differ amongst Christians. Three distinct entities still equals one God. It follows the definition that I presented. Not all Christians believe that Jesus was God incarnate. Like I said, ask 100 Christians to explain the Trinity, you’ll get many different answers.

You haven’t presented anything that would exclude them from being Christians.

If “could go on” means you can copy more information from an anti-website that someone already did for me on a different forum, there is no need, I’ve already read it. It did not convince me that Mormons are not Christians. Mormons believe that Jesus is the Savior. That is the most vital belief of being Christian.

 

[Firelight]

The “Jesus” they believe in is vastly different. See prior post for starters.

Which prior posts? I believe I’ve read them all and I didn’t see anything vastly different.

Jesus’ is Savior, that’s what Christians believe. Unless they declare that Jesus is not the Savior, they wouldn’t be “vastly” different. Declaring Jesus as just a man or a prophet would be “vastly” different, but they call him Savior.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It's unfortunate that some people just don't seem capable of making a distinction between "Christianity" and "mainstream Christianity." Mormons are Christians; they are not mainstream Christians. I have never in my life identified as a mainstream Christian. Christians, unlike members of the other Abrahamic religions look to Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as their Redeemer. That's really the only criterion one must meet to be considered a Christian. I fail to see why people have to make it so complicated when it really isn't at all.

I'm curious... Do the various sects within Judaism have these issues with each other. Do Orthodox Jews claim that Reform Jews aren't the real thing, or are they able to just live and let live?

Katzpur, the differences between Mormons and mainstream (Nicene) Christians are not petty. They are significant enough to classify Mormonism as a separate religion. You guys can't even agree on how many gods there are.

 

[Firelight]

Sex abuse. See the many lawsuits.
Asking teenage boys about their masturbation practices.
Shall I go on?

As a church, do they support sex abuse? Do they promote sex abuse? Or, as a Christian church, do they teach moral cleanliness and abhor abuse of any kind?

They aren’t the first or only Christian church to teach and encourage morality and self-control, or to teach against masturbation and pornography.

Only “go on” if there is a teaching in their church that actually promotes victimization. Don’t give me any more ills common in society.

 

[Firelight]

Mormons are not trinitarians. They are henotheists.

I don’t know what that means, but it wouldn’t make them non-Christians.

 

[Firelight]

Katzpur, the differences between Mormons and mainstream (Nicene) Christians are not petty. They are significant enough to classify Mormonism as a separate religion. You guys can't even agree on how many gods there are.

Looks like to me that they agree that there is one god, with three persons. God the father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Christians and Mormons believe in those same three persons. How each Christian church or member describes these three will vary. They are one God because their knowledge and teachings are the same, they don’t have their own separate teachings. They are worshipped together as one God, too.

Mormons are Christians no matter how somebody wants to classify their religion.