Questions for Church-going Christians

[Bowzer79]

Hello all. I am new here and hope that I am posting this in the best possible place. I will give a little background first, before asking my questions.

My six year old son has recently started taking an interest in religious topics, to the point that it is no longer able to be ignored. Many of his little buddies are Christian and they have got him asking me some odd questions and making off-the-wall comments about prayer, Jesus, and God. I am an atheist, so I feel that I can't answer these questions without a natural bias. He has been asking me to take him to church, and because I worry that it will be a negative experience for us, I keep saying "We will see." I am pretty laid back about religion and want to teach my son tolerance and respect for others and their beliefs. I want to let him choose for himself if this is something he wants in his life. I believe that it is only fair not to force my personal thoughts onto him, unless it should cause him harm. This has posed lots of questions for me.

1.) Are there any churches that allow non-believers to attend and participate in their functions?
2.) If so, how will the congregants feel about me being there with my son?
3.) Will we be treated differently if everyone knows about our situation?
4.) Is a larger or smaller church better for this situation?
5.) How do you choose a doctrine when none of them sound right?
6.) Should we meet with the pastor to be approved to attend, upfront? Be open about or situation? Keep it to ourselves?

I want to attend with him to make sure that he is not being taught any type of hate, or to protest. I want to make sure that he is safe, but has an avenue to get answers to questions that I don't feel right answering for him. I would love to get some opinions of church-going Christians, as to how they would feel about us in their churches and any feedback is much appreciated.

Thanks for your assistance.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Speaking as a former Southern Baptist who was heavily indoctrinated from around birth until about age 14, I would be very careful as to where you take him. In fact, I would take him to a variety of different types of religious organizations to show him that there are many different faiths. A lot of kids are given the impression that their only choice is Christianity because that is all they hear about from their friends at school, their teachers, the bus driver, etc. I might be a little biased, but it might be safer to take him somewhere like a UU church. They have a wonderful childrens program at most UU churches, and they will teach a healthy respect for diversity. Most christian churches teach the opposite of respect for the beliefs of others.

 

[Breathe]

This is the Christian DIR, so I will keep to the rules as much as possible.

Just wishing to extend my welcome.

I think that going to a diverse collection of churches will be beneficial. Bigger would be more anonymous, smaller more personal. I've had good experiences in Anglican (Episcopalian) churches.

 

[Bowzer79]

Speaking as a former Southern Baptist who was heavily indoctrinated from around birth until about age 14, I would be very careful as to where you take him. In fact, I would take him to a variety of different types of religious organizations to show him that there are many different faiths. A lot of kids are given the impression that their only choice is Christianity because that is all they hear about from their friends at school, their teachers, the bus driver, etc. I might be a little biased, but it might be safer to take him somewhere like a UU church. They have a wonderful childrens program at most UU churches, and they will teach a healthy respect for diversity. Most christian churches teach the opposite of respect for the beliefs of others.

Thanks Jacksynte. I have considered taking him to various ones. I have to admit that I am not really very knowledgeable about too many of them, and there are not a lot to choose from where we are located. Our area is predominantly Christian, so we have more options there. I am attempting to learn some about the other options by reading through the discussions here. I have had a couple of other people mention universalist types of churches, but then here locally, people frown on it. I just don't want to get my son associated with one that he enjoys and then watch him be criticized for which one I helped him choose. Thanks for your help.

 

[Bowzer79]

This is the Christian DIR, so I will keep to the rules as much as possible.

Just wishing to extend my welcome.

I think that going to a diverse collection of churches will be beneficial. Bigger would be more anonymous, smaller more personal. I've had good experiences in Anglican (Episcopalian) churches.

Thank you Odion. I will look into the Episcopalian one and see if it sounds like something he might be interested in. I appreciate your help.

 

[Jacksnyte]

I hope you find something good for him.

Oh, and welcome to RF!!

 

[Bowzer79]

I hope you find something good for him.

Oh, and welcome to RF!!

Thanks for the welcome and the kind words. Very nice of you both.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would confirm that an episcopalian / anglican churh would make a good starting point.

They are a very broad church and are very open and undogmatic about most things.
Introduce your selves to the Priest and explain your position.
He/she will have heard the same story many times before so you can be quite relaxed about it.
You will see his name and phone number on the main outside notice board.

You must expect the question of Baptism to come up at some stage but you will not be pressured about it. but it does become necessary eventually if you wish to become a member. ( not all church goers are members)

If you just walk in before a service, no one will mind... most churches have some one at the door, on the look out to welcome strangers and put you at your ease.

 

[Bowzer79]

I would confirm that an episcopalian / anglican churh would make a good starting point.

They are a very broad church and are very open and undogmatic about most things.
Introduce your selves to the Priest and explain your position.
He/she will have heard the same story many times before so you can be quite relaxed about it.
You will see his name and phone number on the main outside notice board.

You must expect the question of Baptism to come up at some stage but you will not be pressured about it. but it does become necessary eventually if you wish to become a member. ( not all church goers are members)

If you just walk in before a service, no one will mind... most churches have some one at the door, on the look out to welcome strangers and put you at your ease.

Thank you Terry. I am investigating it right now. Glad to know they have heard this before. It is easy to feel like you are the only person in the world this happens to, although logically you know the odds of it happening to others is huge. Thanks so much for your help. I have been giving you guys "frubals"??? I hope this is a good thing. I still haven't figured out what it is yet. If it isn't a good thing,I apologize and will stop. I just saw it as an option and it looks like some type of rating system?

 

[wordmagnifiedabovenames]

To address the OP:

Of course you'll probably find that churches will answer questions about God, Jesus and prayer with a fair degree of bias too.

1. I would imgaine so, the only thing would be with things like baptism, prayer and communion. I don't imagine a church would not let you listen to the sermon if your weren't a Christian. Baptsim requires a belief in God. Although I don't think it's likely a church will throw your son in a tank as soon as he walks in the door, if the church is teaching about baptism or having one, your son may feel a bit left out if he doesn't understand what's going on. Some churches encourage people to pray. If the other children (or people in general) start doing something he doesn't know how to do or he doesn't understand why or how it's supposed to work, or he doesn't get asked to pray while children around him do, he could feel left out.

The Bible says that if someone takes communion unworthily (from the Greek it could be translated to "irrevently," whether that irreverence comes form a mocking attitude or just ignorance,) then he is bringing judgement upon himself. While a church will probably offer it to everyone and let adults make their own decision about whether to partake in it or not, if the church adheres to this teaching, they might make an executive decision about a six year old, especially if he was in a childrens' program and you weren't with him, or if they didn't know where the child was with God. Apparently it's pretty bad to lead a child to sin. Your son may get upset if kids around him are being given food and he's not. Personally I'd be worried if a church encouraged a six year old (or anyone) to take communion without having first explained, and being sure the six year old understood, the passage about judgement, but that's just me. In the past what I've done if I've not been satisfied that I wasn't leading the child to sin, is palm the responsibility off to the parent and get the parent to offer communion to the child. Then I'd go through a communion study with the parent and child so that next time I could offer the child communion without worrying about me leading the child to sin. Again though, that's just me.

If you're athiest then you probably think it won't matter if your son has communion or not, or may think that he should have it if other people are having it, and not believe that him doing so irrevently will bring judgement on him. However, despite how you feel, it may matter to the people who are offering it to him, and they may refuse to give it to him. This is just an example of people living their beliefs, it's not done to offend anyone, it's just people saying that despite what you want them to do, they think what God wants is more important.

Sorry if that sounded harsh or condescending, I had to explain it to a woman a while back. She was upset that I wouldn't give her daughter any bread and juice when I gave some to the other kids as part of communion. I explained to the girl that it was for people who believed that Jesus had died on the cross for them, and that they were drinking it to remember Jesus, and that it was bad for her to do it if she didn't know what it was for (in a nutshell, it was a Sunday school lesson with 5 and 6 year olds.) The girl knew almost nothing about Jesus and didn't understand what it meant that He'd died on the cross for her, but she did understand why the other kids were having it and she wasn't; they understood and believed in something she didn't. The girl was actually ok with it and didn't kick up a fuss, it was only when she told her mum about it (who incidentally didn't believe in God) that there was a problem. I had to explain to her mum that not only did I believe that it was bad for her daughter to partake in communion irrevently, but it was also bad for me to give it to her. I said that she could give her daughter some bread and juice if she wanted, but I wasn't going to do it and call it communion until her daughter understood and accepted what Jesus had done on the cross. I wasn't trying to offend the mum or be mean and starve the girl, I was just living my beliefs. Anyway, moving on....

That's something to consider; if the church has a Sunday school program (which will probably have more kid-friendly explainations about God and the Bible than "big church" will, do you want him going into it without you, do you want to be in Sunday school with him, or do you want him to be in "big church" with you? Alternatively, the "Sunday school" or "kids' program" or whatever it's called could just be a babysitting centre for kids while their parents are in the service. Depending on the church, your son may end up just playing games and doing drawings and not actually hearing anything about God, despite whatever doctrines etc. are being preached in "big church."

There also may be issues with tithes and offerings. Some churches may expect that only church members will pay tithes and give offerings. I don't know you, perhaps you'll take offence if you think a church is discriminating against you if they know you aren't Christian so they have different expectations of you. I'm not saying it will happen or that you will take offence to it if it does, I'm just saying that you should be prepared for the possibility.

2.) You won't know if you don't go. I can only speak for the church I attend, which looking at your location, is a fair way away from where you are, but I know that at my church there are people in your situation who keep coming back. Whether it's because their kids enjoy it, or they enjoy it, or they are slowly being convicted by God that it's the right thing for them to do, or a combination of all of the above I'm not sure, all I know is that I'm happy that they (and their kids) are in church and at least getting some input.

3.) Possibly, it depends on the individuals in the church. I'm reasonably certain though that yours is a situation they will have encountered before, and will probably have some sort of process set up to try to make you feel welcome and comfortable. You probably will be treated differently to other Chrsitains, insofar as people probably won't jump into a conversation about eschatology with you before they've figured out what you believe, whereas they might use a whole lot of "Christianese" in a converstation with someone they've known for a while and know what that person understands about the Bible.

4.) A larger church may be better insofar as it could be less confrontational; it may be easier to get lost in the crowd if you want to be a sort of fly on the wall to evaluate what your son is being taught. A smaller church may be more intimate and in a church of 20 people, if whoever's preaching knows that about 10% of their audience (you and your son) is either athiest or agnostic, they may change their message slightly, and you may feel like you're being "preached at." Of course you may feel you're being preached at if God is using the preacher's message, whether in its "altered" form or not, to convict you, but that's equally possible in both big and small churches, it just may feel more obvious in a smaller one. WRT intimacy, if people are being individually prayed for, it's staticistically more likely that you and your son will be individually prayed for in a smaller church rather than a larger one. I don't know if you'd be comfortable with this or not. In a smaller church it may be easier for you to talk privately with a pastor or kids leader if you have questions about something you heard talked about. In a larger church the same provision will probably be made for you if you make the effort to contact someone, but if no one knows you're an athiest and you don't approach someone, then you'd be relying on people who are actively looking out for new people to approach you, and depending on the size of the church, what time you turned up, where you sat, who you talked to and how soon you left afterwards, you may slip though the cracks. In a smaller church people may make more of an effort to actually talk to you and answer questions you may have, purely because in a smaller church you'll stand out more.

5.) Acts 17. Be like the Bereans; hear what is said with a readiness of mind, then search the scriptures to see if it is so. Maybe have a look at the church's website (if they've got one, or ring them, or go there during the week and see if they've got some brochures etc) and see if there's a "statement of faith" or something similar, then compare it with what's in the Bible. If they make recordings of preaching available online, listen to/watch them beforehand and see if you agree with what's being preached before you go there. I'll admit that in some circumstances the message of the Bible is not a comfortable nor easy one to believe and follow. All I can say to that is that I've experienced God making it easier, but it's a journey that involves faith, which I know can be a difficult concept for an athiest to identify with. I suppose it depends on whether you want a church that teaches what's in the Bible or a church that teaches whatever is popular and appeals to people at the time.

6.) I don't think it's necessary to "be approved" beforehand, but I don't imagine that any harm will come of asking. If the pastor says something along the lines of "you're not a Christian, please don't turn up on Sunday, you won't be welcome in this church," I'd seriously question what else that pastor is preaching. Personally I'd just turn up, take a seat, talk to people honestly about why you're there if they ask you, then be like the Bereans in Acts 17.

Hope that helps. Kind regards.
wordmagnifiedabovenames

 

[dance-above]

I am extremely pleased that u are willing to let him learn. I have mostly only attended a Baptist church during my life so I can't speak for the other churches. Honestly I think it would help for u first to learn what u can about the history of early Christianity and buy some basic bible story books.
start with the basics first.

 

[dance-above]

I am extremely pleased that u are willing to let him learn. I have mostly only attended a Baptist church during my life so I can't speak for the other churches. Honestly I think it would help for u first to learn what u can about the history of early Christianity and buy some basic bible story books.
start with the basics first.

 

[Bowzer79]

Wordmagnified, I would like to thank you for all of the time you took to thoroughly explain and answer my questions. That was very kind of you.

I did read some things about the communion about three days ago, so I fully understand and respect that they would not wish us to participate in that. I will not ask my son not to pray or anything else. He already does it from time to time. I guess I should have been more thorough myself. I was concerned that my personal views may cause a division between my son and the rest of the congregation. If they are wary of me then they may tell their children to "stay away from that kid. That is that atheist's boy." I just don't want him to suffer needlessly. He is great kid and I don't want to set him up for disaster if I can avoid it. I just want to make sure that he won't be excluded from doing fun things with the other kids out of some fear their parents have put into them about us. Much like any other group, atheists get lumped together and it is easy to have a negative view of us before meeting us individually.

As far as tithing goes, I donate to a few Christian based charities that I was contacted by, at work. It isn't a problem for me. If it is a problem for them that will only hurt them in the long run. They can view my tithe as an offering to God if they want. I just see it as no different than paying for my son's karate lessons, soccer or softball team payments. I don't have a problem paying it and I would hope that they wouldn't stop the whole service to jerk my check out of the plate. lol

Thanks for being so detailed and I am appreciative of your help for my child's benefit.

 

[Bowzer79]

I am extremely pleased that u are willing to let him learn. I have mostly only attended a Baptist church during my life so I can't speak for the other churches. Honestly I think it would help for u first to learn what u can about the history of early Christianity and buy some basic bible story books.
start with the basics first.

Danceabove, thank you for your suggestions. I have been researching it for the past few weeks. Some of it, you get over the course of a lifetime, but details are interesting. I have read the bible a few times. That is how I decided against it, for myself. I just have a hard time answering questions for my son without wanting to say "that is silly", or without rolling my eyes. It is harder than I thought it would be. It almost feels like lying to him and I am firmly against that.

So since your background is in a Baptist church, how would you view us and would there be any issues with us attending from your experience?

 

[dance-above]

Danceabove, thank you for your suggestions. I have been researching it for the past few weeks. Some of it, you get over the course of a lifetime, but details are interesting. I have read the bible a few times. That is how I decided against it, for myself. I just have a hard time answering questions for my son without wanting to say "that is silly", or without rolling my eyes. It is harder than I thought it would be. It almost feels like lying to him and I am firmly against that.

So since your background is in a Baptist church, how would you view us and would there be any issues with us attending from your experience?

Honestly, I've never found one that I was completely comfortable with as far as the pastor was concerned. I've met some very warm hearted people and some very hard hearted people, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend you attending in hopes that you would always be treated correctly. Not all are mature. But the community of the true believers would welcome u with a warm heart for the sake of your son and also in the hopes that through him u might also come to the "Faith". You said that you had read some of the bible, there is a scripture that states: Its not with wisdom of words that you believed but by the miracles of God. And another one: those that previously had not sought God fond him. I believe that not a one of us can come to god except it be given to us. I hope some of this helps.

 

[Bowzer79]

Honestly, I've never found one that I was completely comfortable with as far as the pastor was concerned. I've met some very warm hearted people and some very hard hearted people, so I wouldn't necessarily recommend you attending in hopes that you would always be treated correctly. Not all are mature. But the community of the true believers would welcome u with a warm heart for the sake of your son and also in the hopes that through him u might also come to the "Faith". You said that you had read some of the bible, there is a scripture that states: Its not with wisdom of words that you believed but by the miracles of God. And another one: those that previously had not sought God fond him. I believe that not a one of us can come to god except it be given to us. I hope some of this helps.

:yes: of great help. Thank you very much. I am just trying to find the best fit for a first time encounter. I know his first experience will be the make it or break it type. If he decided it was not for him, that is fine with me, but if it is something he would have liked under other circumstances, that will be hard to undo if I fail to find a decent first experience for him.

 

[Kathryn]

First of all, I want to thank you for the civil tone of the OP. What a breath of fresh air!

As a regular churchgoer attending a United Methodist Church, and the mother of five, I'll take your questions one at a time:

1.) Are there any churches that allow non-believers to attend and participate in their functions?

Yes and no. Nearly all mainstream churches will welcome you and your son with open arms, as a visitor. You will be welcome to sing along, kneel, stand, pray, take notes, give an offering, etc. You will be most likely be more than welcome to attend any social events, classes, etc.

Most churches would not encourage non believers to participate in holy communion, and frankly, I can't understand why a non believer would want to do so anyway. During communion, if communion is passed along the pews, simply pass it along without taking any. If communion requires going up to the front of the church, you can either just remain seated, or if you are attending a Roman Catholic church, you may go up to the front, and simply cross your arms in front of you across your chest rather than reach for the bread/wafer. The priest will then bless you. This is very common and no one will think you're weird, I promise! Many Catholic people have friends or family who attend Mass with them but are not Catholic, and they often go up with the rest of the family to receive a blessing.

Do not participate in baptism if you are a non believer. That would offend most Christians. It would be considered making light of a very sacred rite.

2.) If so, how will the congregants feel about me being there with my son?

The vast majority of mainstream churches will be very happy to see you there.

3.) Will we be treated differently if everyone knows about our situation?

If you visit once or twice, how will anyone know? Do you plan on challenging others or proclaiming publically that you are an atheist? Do you plan on approaching teachers or pastors and informing them that you're an atheist? Or do you simply plan on attending Sunday morning worship services as an observer only?

If I were you, I would not make a big deal about your atheism. What would be the point of that?

4.) Is a larger or smaller church better for this situation?

I would suggest larger churches. Your son will see more interactivity most likely - larger choirs, more music, more vestments, generally more structure. However, in larger churches, people are not as likely to approach you before or after the service to welcome you or engage you in conversation, because they simply won't know that you are not a regular.

5.) How do you choose a doctrine when none of them sound right?

A six year old doesn't have to understand much doctrine. What do you mean "choose a doctrine?" Do you mean "choose a church to attend?"

6.) Should we meet with the pastor to be approved to attend, upfront? Be open about or situation? Keep it to ourselves?

If you are going to attend a very small congregation, this MIGHT be an OK idea, but then I wouldn't recommend attending a very small church because I don't think your son would get a very full picture of the idea of "going to church." I would just be unobtrusive, polite, and quiet. Observe. If you have questions afterward, you could approach the minister privately for answers.

I want to attend with him to make sure that he is not being taught any type of hate, or to protest. I want to make sure that he is safe, but has an avenue to get answers to questions that I don't feel right answering for him. I would love to get some opinions of church-going Christians, as to how they would feel about us in their churches and any feedback is much appreciated.

My husband and I are Methodist for a lot of reasons. Methodists generally lean a bit to the liberal side. They are tolerant and not at all legalistic. Their culture encourates individuality and questioning - at least that's been my experience. However, most larger Methodist churches observe the liturgical seasons and year, complete with vestments, candles, regular communion (usually the first Sunday of each month), alter boys/girls, more formal choirs, etc. And usually out in ONE HOUR! Something moderate and markedly NOT extreme, flamboyant, intolerant, loud, or LONG would probably be a good introduction to mainstream Christianity for your boy.

By the way, an aside note: Your son is six. You have every right to help him make informed decisions, and you also have every right to make many decisions FOR him. I am assuming that you love him, want the best for him, want to protect him, and yet give him the tools he needs to make important decisions about religion and faith LATER in his life. He's too young to make such encompassing decisions right now. If you truly want to be fair, just let him observe, and answer his questions as sincerely and fairly as possible. If you don't know the answer, don't wing it - just tell him you don't know and then research it and get back with him.

I wouldn't make a big deal out of any of this. Most six year olds aren't really into attending church - they have to sit too still for too long! My bet is that his interest in this will wane on it's own.

My experience in raising five children is that none of them ever WANT to get up and go to church on Sunday morning, no matter how great their Sunday school class might be. Mine seemed neutral at best till they were older. Interestingly enough, of my five kids, two are regular church goers, two are sporadic but feels it's important, and one is pretty much a party animal who is usually hung over on Sundays.

That's my input for now!

 

[Bowzer79]

Kathryn, thank you for your detailed response to my questions. I am glad I could be a "breath of fresh air" lol. I would have questioned that before I read some of the other posts here. Some of them put me off as well.

I don't plan to challenge anything within a church. That is not my place and it is not my character. I just don't want to appear to be deceptive if it were to come out later and to find people shocked or upset thinking that I was keeping it from them. I assume at some point I will be asked what I think about something and what would I say? I don't see lying as an option.

Yes, I know I must make decisions for my son because of his age, but he has a unique circumstance. His mother died unexpectedly when he was 3 years old. He is getting to the age where he is questioning death(hers in particular now) and he seemed disturbed by my views of what happens when we die. I have spent the last three years trying to plan how to talk to him about it, but nothing ever seems to go as planned. He seemed to be more interested in the whole life after death bit. It may be that he is too young to really understand and accept death and what it means, at least from my perspective. I may be giving in a little more than most parents would to such a young child, but I would rather give in, a way that I normally wouldn't to let him have more peace of mind, if that is what he needs. But then again, I am just a dad. What do we know? lol Mothers are the wise ones.

Thanks for your help. I will look into Methodist as well. We have several of those here locally.

 

[blackout]

Unitarian Universalism is a GREAT way to introduce church curious kids
to differing religions and life philosophies
(including life after death viewpoints)
from secular humanism to christianity,
from buddhism, hinduism, to wicca, and everything in between,
WITHOUT having to adopt any 'beliefs' or 'dogmas',
or actually join any particular 'religion'.
I bring my own 3 kids to UU RE, (Religious Education)
while I mySelf attend/participate in the adult functions.
Because I mySelf am of more of a LHP bent,
I have never made a move to actually officially join UU,
but they are very welcoming of our participation,
and are inclusive of my kids
as if they were members.

In my own opinion,
much better to introduce children to many paths and ways,
then step back later
and let them decide for their own Selves.
A UU church is a great way to do this.

Also, you yourself, will feel right at home as an athiest in a UU church.
Athiests are as common there as Monotheists, Panthiests, Agnostics, Polytheists... etc....
The whole point is, we can ALL get on together better
if we understand each other better.

Hope I have not infringed on the christian DIR.

For further UU info,
maybe also open a thread there.

good luck!

 

[Bowzer79]

Thank you UltraViolet.

Do your children not get confused by the many different views? I am confused and I have only been reading about different beliefs for a short time. I can only imagine how confusing it would be for little ones.