Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

13. What factor makes one or leads one to be a true Bahai and what is believed to be the factor that makes people deny it or defy it or reject it or be skeptical of it in the genuine views of the Bahai?
I think that the people who become Bahai are people who want a man to believe in and trust and have as a sage who is within their range and isn't sullied or hated as much as others like Muhammed who was maybe too far in the past and with too bad of a reputation overall as spread online these days, but most of the Bahai people didn't become Bahai as far as I know based on reading things online. I think that my upbringing and life experience (leading to bitterness and misanthropy) makes me strongly inhibited from taking Baha'u'llah on as my personal big brother or daddy or beloved uncle or whatever, and I don't think about Muhammed either. I don't like Buddha, I think Jesus is depicted like a total jerk, and try to keep all these people from my mind or basically don't believe in their stories, because if I were to believe in their stories, I'd hate them a lot because they sound really annoying and bad. I'm hostile to "leaders" anyway.

14. I view Bahai religion as a degradation or inferior version of Qur'anic Islam, can you clarify or correct this view and show how it might actually be an improvement on the Qur'anic religion or differs from it in such a way in its teachings and practices? I currently find the Muslims to be more devout, more physically clean, more disciplined, etc, so superior in every way to the Bahai which seems like its just a deflated and luke-warm Western pandering version of Islam.

The things I like about Islam are basically their strictness about intoxication, cleanliness at all times, worship, and the intense confidence and "God direct" style of the writing of the Qur'an. I never liked the 1800s, and would sooner follow the writing of the mass murdering failure Napoleon (see "Napoleon says he was a Muslim") than these folks out of Persia which might as well be Waco for all I know. Speaking of which, I have been looking for Napoleon's complete writings for a long time and still haven't been able to obtain them, if anyone knows where I can access those in English translation, I'd like to read them. I think Napoleon was most likely a pretty villainous dude, but I enjoyed what I've read of his writing.

15. What are the Bahai views on the actual detailed description of God (what is God, in detail, down to every detail you can muster up), angels, demons, jinn, whatever, the whole cosmology, the whole belief system in detail, magic, mysticism, symbols, all that you can discuss which give a clear picture of the Bahai worldview and cosmology and locations and history and bestiary and all that.

I don't think the Bahai understanding of God is probably up to par, but I'd like to hear it anyway. I assume that many people, or converts even, tend to view God in some sort of semi or non said overtly but secretly anthropomorphic fashion, sometimes far too anthropomorphic or human-like for my tastes and believe in all sorts of weird stuff that is separated from God in their views, this is just an assumption (from ignorance) based on (knowledge of) other religions tendencies or interviews with people (not Bahai people probably).

16. How can one come to respect, admire, or follow Baha'u'llah if one doesn't have much respect for any human beings, or for Baha'u'llah's supposed predecessors, or Muhammed, or Jesus, or Moses, or even God? 16.2. How much belief or practice is required to be a true Bahai or attain God's reward, and what is that Reward anyway and in return for what exactly and why?

There is probably no way, but maybe if one hears only good things and no bad things, and loves all the writing and finds it written in their own thinking and hearts and all that, but I think there is no way for someone like me who has so little respect for human beings and even dislikes God and all creation. I think that to be a true Bahai, you must truly believe that Baha'u'llah is the Messenger of God, that EVERYTHING he wrote and said and did was true and right, and that he was no ordinary man exactly but truly Chosen by God and directed by God and did only God's will for good, and follow him and his way and behaviors and writings yourself devoutly, thinking that he did so as well. I believe Baha'u'llah was chosen by God to create this faction, but that God is often bad, does bad, and only created this faction to confuse and divert some people or introduce Islam Lite to them or some plot, and also went ahead and murdered his pawn that he used and threw away just as easily, that is the callous and scary God that I believe in and worship. I wish there was another, but nothing in life or reality seems to indicate anything but the Monstrosity I've just described. That is what necessarily happens when you have infinite power and time and energy and can bring people to any experience or bring them back to life freely, they are like nothing, so what does it matter anyway.

17. What is the opposite of a Bahai (sometimes this helps clarify what a Bahai is through the example of what is not a Bahai or what the diametric opposite might be). 17.2. Who, if anyone, are the bad guys or groups, or list all the major bad guys or groups, like even Satan if Satan plays a role at all in the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

The Opposite of a Bahai is an Atheist with no religious practices who does not believe in anyone or anything in a spiritual sort of way. Both religious extremists and utterly non-religious people (particularly if militant) are the enemies to the Bahai and all devout and good people. Satan and people or things like Satan as well. The biggest enemy of everyone is of course God, who kills em all and leaves everyone guessing and some people too sure for their own good.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

18. The statistical numbers of other groups are higher, what does this mean? Has the mission failed, or is it only getting started? It seems doubtful at this rate or with these numbers that Bahai religion will be a major force in 1000 years. 18.2. What accounts for the slaying of Bab and Baha'u'llah if these were slain (as compared to Muhammed, who was not slain, or Moses, who was not slain), and the comparatively small following of the Bahai faith as compared to variations of Islam and Christianity?

The numbers of Bahai people will still keep growing most likely, but will never likely exceed the number of Muslims or even Christians in the foreseeable future. This is based on buyer preferences, as people will tend to keep going back to whatever is the original or older version to try to get something they feel is more authorized, or more popular, or has the bigger gang or backing, and only very specific personality traits will get a person to join this particular faction, which also doesn't seem to breed as much (since they are all probably talking to my Dad on the phone, the son of a!). Compared to Muhammed, the Bab and the Baha'u'llah were generally failures, like Napoleon, and many others, like Jesus as well, because they were supposedly executed and mainly didn't convince many people. In comparison, Muhammed was supposedly a glowing success, just like many of the villainous world leaders who triumphantly march to victory. If being caught by your enemies and executed though makes you a winner (Charlie Sheen style), then these guys lost nothing (but their lives) and will be rewarded for their genuine good (if they did anyway, and weren't held responsible for lots of killings and things, which God should also take responsibility for if God told them to tell others to do so).

19. What are the strongest appeals and apologetics for Bahai religion and why one should follow it and perform each of the required or recommended rituals or tasks?
The strongest appeal I can think of, as a totally ignorant of the religion person, is that Baha'u'llah may be right, and does provide some sort of new writing much closer to our time than the Qur'an or Muhammed. If one wants to be really safe, one should follow the Qur'an strictly, and Islam strictly, and add in the Bahai stuff too on top of it, so that you do both simultaneously, and wherever Bahai seems weaker or lesser, take the Qur'an, and wherever Bahai stuff seems stronger without stepping on the Islam or contradicting it, choose the harder and stronger, and then you should win, this is a game of strategy after all, is it not?

20. How was your mood and thought process before and after Bahai religion was taken on as your personal religion, and what aspects of it do you personally perceive as those which make the most beneficial difference in your thinking or practices?
I have not taken on the Bahai religion, but I doubt it will help with my weird sleeping positions lately, and neck pain in the morning due to that, and being irritated and pissed off as well. I strongly doubt Bab or Baha'u'llah would even let me sleep on their bellies, like Budai does.

21. What are some resources or all the best resources to read all the important or just all of the available and translated Bahai literature online, and what is the value if any of doing so, and what are the bare minimum requirements or recommendations for reading (how much does one need to know, and also if there is any stuff people should avoid reading or which when they read they become really difficult or skeptical).
Yeah, people should avoid reading all the information that claims that Bab and Baha'u'llah had funding or something from Russia or people trying to manipulate the government or rulership in Iran/Persia or whatever, and should stick to the main literature made for the Western audiences, if they want to get convinced somehow. Or, read everything, even stuff that isn't Bahai or about the Bahai, and see what you like, maybe you'll be impressed by the writing and language that I find totally irritating, just like some people hate the words of the Qur'an which can be found at www.islamawakened.com/quran and also were supposedly validated by Baha'u'llah as authentic and from God but supposedly outdated for this modern age of 1800 whatever. One doesn't need to know much in my opinion, just the basic concepts, theology, what God is, and how to do the rituals and when to do them, and then go for it and live your life like that if you want to.

22. Where is God right now, as I'm writing this, in your beliefs or understandings, and what would God think if I thought poorly of Baha'u'llah or Muhammed or something? Or even God? 22.2.What would thinking poorly of God be exactly in your opinion?
Doesn't care, thinks I'm a hot shot, loves me and everything I say. Most things. Some things. Omg, Do you even love me at all God? Yes. Ok. Crying now. Thinking poorly of God would be thinking inaccurately about God, which I think most people are one way or another responsible of doing. If they for example deny that God is responsible for the bad things as well as the good things, and all things whatsoever, then they would be truly thinking poorly of the God I believe in.

Lots of questions!

Yes! But see how they can be answered? It isn't even so difficult!

23. What is the Bahai organization hierarchy and system and who are the leaders and bosses and why?
Money grubbers at the top most likely, as usual. Scum always tends to make its way to the top! I say this without knowing anything about any one of them, its just because of how I've seen every organization tend to operate every single time!

24. Have you heard of the Ismaeli leadership structure? Can you compare it to them or the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses?
Yeah, same deal, don't trust em!

25. What aspects of your personal history and background do you think really might be responsible for your accepting Bahai religion as your religion (or rejecting it, if a non-Bahai answers).
My hatred for human beings and God inhibits me from likely ever becoming a Bahai. I'm interested only in arrogance, haughtiness, and elitism, as an Evil God's mischievous top agent, and making snotty, high-browed, faces, like this sculpture of Ahriman:
https://anthropopper.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/ahriman_s-head-carved-in-wood-by-rudolf-steiner.jpg

 

[shunyadragon]

The questions are sort of a vast mine field of IED's concerning the Baha'i Faith. I will answer some. The following are related.

3. Is the Qur'an to be believed, or is it a lie?

The different scriptures of the ancient past reflect Revelation in the context of the time and culture of the time they were revealed and reflect to certain extent the human view of God and Revelation. This is true of all the scriptures of different religions of the world. They are not lies nor absolute truths, but reflect the knowledge of the time and culture in which they were revealed. .

2. What significant update to Islam was required when the Muslims seem to still be functioning as Muslims along with the Qur'an.

This can be said of every ancient religion. All only reflect the time, and culture of the time, but then again they claim that nothing else is required, but follow the scripture of their religion, and nothing changes with time.

4. What are the changes to the Qur'anic laws by the Bab and to the Bab's laws by Baha'u'llah, and why was such an update necessary between these two in such an extremely small amount of time?

Many changes, but three are important: The teaching that all forms slavery is forbidden, and the equal social and legal rights of women. The harmony of science and religion where the scriptures of the religions including the Baha'i Faith must be understood in the light of the evolving knowledge of the sciences. The nature of the human existence is changing more rapidly with with time,a dn even in a changing evolving spirituality of humanity the Baha'i Faith may also change and evolve.

5. How are Bahai not just some type of Muslims?

No more than Muslims are some kind of Jews or Christians, or Christians are some kind of Jews.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I know from experience how difficult it is to keep threads on topic even when the OP is incredibly concise and specific. A thread with this many rabbit trails is likely to be...a mess. But we shall test the hypothesis. Perhaps your method will be a success, as you say.

Sorry for my attitude in my writing, I didn't realize it was you writing to me, I thought it was just some random person (and non-staff member, and someone I hadn't communicated with yet). I would have treated you with special favoritism and much more nicely and less abrasive or rude sounding if I had realized it was you. I've recently been slightly cranky about certain users on here or towards them and had mistaken you for one of them or someone like them, and thought you were just some rando trying to make me get in trouble or something by posting a million posts about the Bahai and getting myself banned (as I always do), but I now see that it was you, and that your suggestion is actually coming as one from a qualified staff member who helps the website and not just some rando, since I didn't carefully look at your name, display picture, or anything to realize it was you.

I treat people I like, like you, with special favoritism. I've been getting irritated in the Drug thread because of all my bad experiences with drug users in the places I've lived and even recently, and so I thought one of the drug supporter types had followed me here to annoy me or trick me into making some kind of mistake or something, so sorry about that!

When it comes to authority figures, especially nice ones like yourself, I try to stay on their good side if possible, which is why I'd likely never claim to be a Bab or a Baha'u'llah, because I'm all about saving my neck and living like a coward.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

The questions are sort of a vast mine field of IED's concerning the Baha'i Faith. I will answer some. The following are related.



The different scriptures of the ancient past reflect Revelation in the context of the time and culture of the time they were revealed and reflect to certain extent the human view of God and Revelation. This is true of all the scriptures of different religions of the world. They are not lies nor absolute truths, but reflect the knowledge of the time and culture in which they were revealed. .



This can be said of every ancient religion. All only reflect the time, and culture of the time, but then again they claim that nothing else is required, but follow the scripture of their religion, and nothing changes with time.



Many changes, but three are important: The teaching that all forms slavery is forbidden, and the equal social and legal rights of women. The harmony of science and religion where the scriptures of the religions including the Baha'i Faith must be understood in the light of the evolving knowledge of the sciences. The nature of the human existence is changing more rapidly with with time,a dn even in a changing evolving spirituality of humanity the Baha'i Faith may also change and evolve.



No more than Muslims are some kind of Jews or Christians, or Christians are some kind of Jews.

Excellent stuff! Much appreciated! Any more elaboration on anything you feel up to, would be very much appreciated, and what you have written so far is extremely interesting and intriguing and I'd love to learn more and how it is so and all that in anything with less clarification! Thank you so much for taking the time to write on some of those questions, you also demonstrated how people who choose to respond can respond in any order and to any questions as much or as little as they may like to, and should take pleasure in their writing as I take pleasure in my reading what is written and learning, and I learn as much as I can from everything I can, and prefer it written out here if possible rather than being directed to links, so thank you very much again!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I have witnessed many times why people leave. Some of of the times you can see that they are on shaky foundations.

I always worry for a person that declares a faith, as faith is always tested. One must let the process unfold.

Regards Tony

Totally, I agree, and I have the same sort of thoughts and concerns about Amanaki for example or any recent converts to anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is a very simple solution.

I am your most important priority.

By all rights you are, not only because you are one of my favorite people, but also because you were first in line.

I hope to wrap up his questions at least by the weekend, so I can get to your thread, unless I have another cat emergency, in which case all bets are off, because God and His religion are in line behind the cats, and He knows it.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Jesus, who wants to read a wall of hatred? Life is too short to waste on that nonsense.

If you just ignore hatred and don't show the truth or face it with the right, justice, love, and all that good stuff, even drugs, then you will never do anything about it, it can fester, it can spread, it needs to be looked at, faced, contradicted, explained, resolved. No? Hatred exists, and there must be ways to turn red into pink or something, so inject me with some white light and make the sad bad man into the big fan man!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

By all rights you are, not only because you are one of my favorite people, but also because you were first in line.

I hope to wrap up his questions at least by the weekend, so I can get to your thread, unless I have another cat emergency, in which case all bets are off, because God and His religion are in line behind the cats, and He knows it.

Cats also come first in my world too. I think we're all just a bunch of Catties after all. Here is a chance to write out the Catechism!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

You could post this on an ex-Bahai forum as well. They will offer a differing perspective, and can be very knowledgeable. Some were Baha'i for 30 years or so, and did a lot of research.

Can you link me in private to those? I probably won't join though, RF is nice and full of universal groups of people and opinions of all sorts, maybe that very specific type of forum is too narrow and specific for me to make much use of it. I noticed there are a lot of people who are Bahai on this forum, so I thought a Bahai thread might be nice here even and give a nice place to talk about stuff and showcase the religion positively and give out the best apologetics and explanations and maybe even garner some interested readers and converts and stuff.

 

[Trailblazer]

When it comes to authority figures, especially nice ones like yourself, I try to stay on their good side if possible, which is why I'd likely never claim to be a Bab or a Baha'u'llah, because I'm all about saving my neck and living like a coward.

I can already see that you are very honest so I know you and I are going to get along. I am honest to a fault, as many people here know.

I have worked for the government for about 44 years so I know all about authority figures and chain of command.
I also try to stay on the good side of authority figures but for different reasons than you stated.

I am not about saving my neck or living like a coward as you can see by the things I say for which I am often hanged, but I do not care what people think of me or my beliefs as long as I am honest and I treat other people, kindly and with dignity and respect. I have no interest in convincing anyone that my beliefs are true even though the atheists here are constantly telling me that is my job. I am firm believer in independent investigation of truth and free will, so nobody should ever believe something is true just because others do.

 

[Trailblazer]

Cats also come first in my world too.

Well, if you mean that seriously I think you and I are going to get along.

I would not even be here if I did not have my husband taking care of most of the cats' needs.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Jesus, who wants to read a wall of hatred? Life is too short to waste on that nonsense.

"I believe that we'll conceive to make in hell, for us, a heaven.
A brave new world. A promised land. A fortitude of hearts and minds.
Until I see this kingdom is mine, I'll turn the darkness into light. I'll guide the blind. My will be done, until the day I see this kingdom has been won."

Dismissing stuff as "hate" which doesn't need a response, can't be a way to do all those nice things written in your red quote which made all my writing in this post bold. Lets see if it stays that way when I click post reply, but anyway, its recommended that you or someone with more energy or capacity to do so, should actually point for point dispel what is wrong. The first good step is having things like this exposed, but just shaming people for telling the truth or sharing their thoughts or feelings or developments (in error) is not any useful seeming way to actually heal problems or hatred or improper or unjustified opinions surely.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Well, if you mean that seriously I think you and I are going to get along.

I would not even be here if I did not have my husband taking care of most of the cats' needs.

At home in Hawaii, there are maybe over 30 cats or something crazy, its a cat sanctuary, people from around the area even add their cats to it all, all I see when I shut my eyes are cats, and when I open them and see a mirror, I see a cat face.

Think I'm kidding?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I can already see that you are very honest so I know you and I are going to get along. I am honest to a fault, as many people here know.

I have worked for the government for about 44 years so I know all about authority figures and chain of command.
I also try to stay on the good side of authority figures but for different reasons than you stated.

I am not about saving my neck or living like a coward as you can see by the things I say for which I am often hanged, but I do not care what people think of me or my beliefs as long as I am honest and I treat other people, kindly and with dignity and respect. I have no interest in convincing anyone that my beliefs are true even though the atheists here are constantly telling me that is my job. I am firm believer in independent investigation of truth and free will, so nobody should ever believe something is true just because others do.

I'm not good at keeping my mouth shut, especially when mostly anonymous, like a tiger!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

There is no rush! Anyone who feels like answering any of these questions at any length (I prefer at length / thoroughly) can do so whenever at all they feel like it! One at a time, all in a row, out of order, any way you please, I'm enjoying it all and appreciate deeply all the time and effort you are putting towards the topic for yourself, for me, for other potential viewers, for any reasons at all, and I think discussing all this will bring about good and do good regardless. The Bahai religion is considered by many to be one of the best around these days, one of the most modern, civil, and graceful/gentle and inviting towards all. If anyone else wonders about it, feel free to ask questions here as well, but for now, mine may suffice for a while and cover a lot of opportunities and topics, and personally I don't mind tangents of interesting insights and historical additions or whatever people might want to include or mention, so long as the very general topic is answering questions about the Bahai religion thoroughly, explaining things accurately, and getting the truth of the Bahai religion out there for people who are wondering what it is, how to do it or be it, and what makes it better than the rest or the one to choose over the others even!

 

[Left Coast]

Sorry for my attitude in my writing, I didn't realize it was you writing to me, I thought it was just some random person (and non-staff member, and someone I hadn't communicated with yet). I would have treated you with special favoritism and much more nicely and less abrasive or rude sounding if I had realized it was you. I've recently been slightly cranky about certain users on here or towards them and had mistaken you for one of them or someone like them, and thought you were just some rando trying to make me get in trouble or something by posting a million posts about the Bahai and getting myself banned (as I always do), but I now see that it was you, and that your suggestion is actually coming as one from a qualified staff member who helps the website and not just some rando, since I didn't carefully look at your name, display picture, or anything to realize it was you.

I treat people I like, like you, with special favoritism. I've been getting irritated in the Drug thread because of all my bad experiences with drug users in the places I've lived and even recently, and so I thought one of the drug supporter types had followed me here to annoy me or trick me into making some kind of mistake or something, so sorry about that!

When it comes to authority figures, especially nice ones like yourself, I try to stay on their good side if possible, which is why I'd likely never claim to be a Bab or a Baha'u'llah, because I'm all about saving my neck and living like a coward.

There's no need to treat me with favoritism. Actually, please don't.

I'm not special. I'm just a volunteer. Give everyone around here the same respect you give me, and we'll be just fine.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

There's no need to treat me with favoritism. Actually, please don't.

I'm not special. I'm just a volunteer. Give everyone around here the same respect you give me, and we'll be just fine.

Alright, I'll try to treat everyone like they could potentially kick me off the website at any moment for any reason or no reason at all!

Bahai religion is great, and so is every other religion, and atheism too! You're all great people and I like you all a lot! Even the ones I strongly dislike so far, numbering in I think maybe 3? Possibly more. They weren't around when I was here a long time ago, or maybe they were, but I love them too now because they would totally have banned me by now, so if I imagine they have the authority to do so, I'll be carefully about making it too obvious how much I dislike them!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Everyone should remember that within most things I write and do, even if its full of truth, its also meant to be taken in a funny way and humorously, since I'm mainly a silly person and a joker, even if I appear angry or mean, its usually all tongue-and-cheek and just ridiculousness, and if people understand it that way, they might not get too angry about the stuff I say, because its not meant to really hurt anyone ever, but to help people laugh and also be honest and loose and silly if possible.

 

[Trailblazer]

At home in Hawaii, there are maybe over 30 cats or something crazy, its a cat sanctuary, people from around the area even add their cats to it all, all I see when I shut my eyes are cats, and when I open them and see a mirror, I see a cat face.

Think I'm kidding?

No, I believe you.

Like I said on another thread, my idea of heaven is a place where cats live forever and my idea of hell is when cats die...... and I hope God heard that because I am dead serious.

Oh, and by the way, I only have nine cats now, unless you count the one outdoor kitty, but I have a lot more raccoons than cats, say like 30+ ... I only wish I had a camera so I could take a picture of my monster deck in the back where they all come together to eat... I doubt anyone would believe me unless they saw a picture.

We no longer have a deck, we have a rack deck, and we no longer have a back yard, we have a rack yard, and we no longer have a lake view because the racks and squirrels own the trees that are blocking our view.